Upgrading on a budget

[GuNzABlaZiN]

Hey all!

I need some advice on upgrading my comp to play next-gen games such as far-cry and HL2. I'm on a budget so please don't say things like "get the amd 64 3500 or the 6800 ultra". I don't have that kind of money. So far, I'm getting completely new mobo, cpu, ram, video and audio. The only things that are staying are the case, cd-rw, HD, floppy, 350W PSU and maybe the old 56k modem, dunno about that one, I've been on cable for 3 years but I might save it for the days the cable guys cut the wrong wires. So technically, the whole core of the system will be new. The HD and PSU are relatively new so they don't need upgrading. I wanna know if the parts I'll be getting will be compatible with each other and/or if I can maybe get something similar for cheaper.

Here's what I've got in mind:

Mobo: ASUS P4P800SE Intel 865PE $125CND at www.canadacomputers.com (cheapest site I've found and they have locations right near me so I won't have to pay horrendous shipping fees)

CPU: P4 2.8E GHz "Prescott" 800FSB $249CND at the same site, I'm not gonna change my mind about this one.

RAM: Kingston 512mb DDR3200 $125CND same site, 1 stick for now, might get a second later on.

Video: I'll probably go with the ATi Radeon 9800 pro 128mb $313 same site but I was looking at the MSI FX5900xt which was a bit cheaper, is it worth it to pay an extra $30 or $40 for extra performance?

Audio: Need help in this department, I'd like a cheap, decent audio card which is 5.1 and compatible with most games. I've been looking at the Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 which is $42CND. I believe that the mobo comes with on-board sound, should I just leave it at that since I don't care much for speaker setups or surround sound (I usually play in my head phones)?

Also, I heard that the 9800pro gets pretty hot so will I need to add an additional fan?

I'm hoping that this upgrade will last me for a long time to come, it's been 4 years since I've done anything major like this! I can't believe that ut2k4 even runs on this system, considering it's under the minimum requirements in some aspects.

I'm not too big into OC'ing so please consider that.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[McFly]

sounds good while staying fairly cheap.
not sure about your video.... maybe ati

 

[Pressure]

I'd suggest changing the 2.8E to a 2.8C.

 

[blahblahblah]

Since you are on a budget. Check out the Athlon XP line. Much cheaper than any P4 right now and have the same gaming performance. The best deals are the 2500+, 2600+ and 2800+ processors (get the Barton ones).

Also, most (if not all) motherboard come with 5.1 on-board sound. While the sound quality is not the same as an Audigy, it will get you through. You may want to skip on the sound card to save some money.

The 9800 Pro will do better in future games than any Nvidia FX product. It is worth the extra money.

[Edit]: At the site you linked, the XP 2800+ is $170 CDn. That is $79 cheaper than the equivalent Intel processor. If you go with the XP processor, you will have to find a different motherboard.

 

[ShadowFox]

I'm not sure why you are going Intel if you aren't overclocking, but whatever floats your boat.

Everything else looks good. Definately stick with the 9800 Pro.

One thing, if you are worried about heat, your problem area will be the Prescott, not the video card.

 

[poseyjmac]

why not get an athlon 64 3000+ instead? its faster or even a 3200+ for just a bit more

 

[GuNzABlaZiN]

Hmmm, the athlon 64 3000 is definately cheaper, but would it perform better than a 2.8E GHz 800mhz FSD CPU?

(wow, that was fast guys! thx for the help)

Edit: I'm a bit old fasioned and I tend to look down upon AMD as if it is inferrior to intel

 

[ShadowFox]

Hmmm, the athlon 64 3000 is definately cheaper, but would it perform better than a 2.8E GHz 800mhz FSD CPU?

(wow, that was fast guys! thx for the help)

Edit: I'm a bit old fasioned and I tend to look down upon AMD as if it is inferrior to intel

Most definately, at stock speeds.

Actually it will be much faster in games and about the same speed in productivity/multimedia programs.

 

[GuNzABlaZiN]

I've always been an intel/nvidia person but I guess people change, huh? This will definately save me some money, although I will do some more research into this. Also, what kind of mobo would you recommend with this CPU? Maybe one with on-board sound?

 

[ShadowFox]

Since you are on a budget.. I'd go with this:

ASUS K8V VIA K8T800 more info $136

 

[blahblahblah]

Of course, you should definetly do more research. Some good hardware sites are

www.tomshardware.com
www.anandtech.com
www.xbitlabs.com
www.hardocp.com

[edit]: Whoops.

 

[Top Secret]

2500+ barton - 90
NF7-S Motherboard - 90
Audigy 2 ZS - 75
Vantec 350-400w - 50
Generic case - 50
2x256 Geil - 100
BFG 6800GT - 400

Total: 805 and will SMOKE the system you have listed above.

Your computer (With soundcard) comes to around 890~. I'm not some noob giving you shitty advice, I'm dead serious when I say that is a bad buy, and this is a good buy. On the computer you have on top, you could play Far Cry with everything on "Very High" and it will run good. Maybe the occasional slowdown etc etc. (Because of the 9800) with this computer, you can run everything on "very high" + water on "ultra high" (Maximum possible visual settings) and it will not slow down. You could even throw on some AA and it will take it. The BFG 6800GT overclocks to the ultra extremely easily. And even if you're not into overclocking, it's still the way to go as far as performance/price goes.

*Edit*

A barton 2500+ can and WILL overclock to 3200+ with stock cooling NO PROBLEM whatsoever if you simply must have DDR400. If you're more hardcore, I'd get the mobile, but that's oem, doesn't come with a heatsink/fan etc etc.


As for the computer you have listed above, yes, it will be compatible. And you never want to buy only 1 stick of DDR, even if money is tight. You will get shit performance. It will run like it's PC200 RAM.

*edit2*


Please don't think I'm biased towards AMD/nVidia. I have a 9800XT and a 3.0C in my box right now.

 

[GuNzABlaZiN]

$800US is about $1050Canadian, the prices I listed are in Canadian. I don't have that kind of money to spend on a gaming machine.

 

[blahblahblah]

So would you consider an Athlon XP processor? Or are you looking at the Athlon 64 processor? Or sticking with P4?

 

[h4vvok]

Refer to http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=27891

 

[GuNzABlaZiN]

After putting alot of thought into it, I think I'll go with an Athlon 64 processor (most likely a 3000), if it run's better than the 2.8E and costs less, plus is built with the future in mind, probably best for me since I don't upgrade often. All I need now is a decent mobo and I should be set, right? Also, why would ram run slower if it was one stick(512) instead of 2(256x2)? Should I just buy 2 256mb sticks then?

I don't wanna spend too much on sound, if the mobo comes with decent on-board then I'm happy or if it doesn't, then I can get some cheap card like the Live! 5.1.

 

[Warbie]

xp-m 2500 is the best bang for buck cpu around, definately the budget gamers choice.

You'll get it up to 2.5 gigs no problem and it'll only cost you around 140 canadian dollars (significantly better than an Intel 3.2 and far better than an xp 3200))

 

[The Terminator]

Definitly go with one stick of 512, better upgrade potential later, and cheaper. Good processor choice, and Id go with ASUS "K8V" K8T800 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 754 CPU more infor on that borad here http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-491&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE

 

[blahblahblah]

xp-m 2500 is the best bang for buck cpu around, definately the budget gamers choice.

You'll get it up to 2.5 gigs no problem and it'll only cost you around 140 canadian dollars (significantly better than an Intel 3.2 and far better than an xp 3200))

The only XP-M's I've seen go up to 2.5 GHz is by using water cooling and cranking the voltage up to 1.85 or higher.

As for performance, even an overclocked XP-M at 2.5GHz can't compete with the new Athlon 64's. The review below includes an XP-M processor clocked at 2.4GHz. The Athlon XP old architecture can't keep up with the new Athlon 64's and P4's. The Athlon XP still provides great performance for a great price though.

http://tech-report.com/reviews/2004q1/athlon64-fx53/index.x?pg=1

Anyways, he said he is not into overclocking.

~~~

Since you are getting an Athlon 64, get the one stick of RAM. It will make it easy to upgrade in the future. Socket 754 doesn't have a dual channel memory controller so you will not benefit from having 2 sticks of RAM.

 

[Warbie]

Far enough.

(they are loads cheaper than a AMD 64, tho. I've also built 4 xp-m machines, all have reached 2.5 gigs easily on air. Prime & 3d Mark/game stable at 1.7v. Mine does 2.6 on 1.75v and is under 45c full load I know someone whose got his up to 2.9 gigs, on water of course. Now that does match AMD 64's Fantastic chips)

 

[Top Secret]

The only XP-M's I've seen go up to 2.5 GHz is by using water cooling and cranking the voltage up to 1.85 or higher.

How many have you seen? Two of my friends, and my brother in law are running their 2500+'s (1.83) @ 2.4 stock. Granted, it's not 2.5. But a SP-97 or even an ALX-800 could easily put someone there.

 

[[Matt]]

Mobo: ASUS P4P800SE Intel 865PE $125CND at www.canadacomputers.com (cheapest site I've found and they have locations right near me so I won't have to pay horrendous shipping fees)

I would go with an AMD system myself as they are far more cost effective. I Would suggest an Asus A7N8X-E for $133 from that site. Its more expensive but you'll still save cash. More on that later

CPU: P4 2.8E GHz "Prescott" 800FSB $249CND at the same site, I'm not gonna change my mind about this one.

For the CPU I would suggest the Athlon XP 2600+ 333FSB for $129. You'll be saving lots of cash but bartons are brilliant overclocking CPU's my 2600+ is running at 2352MHz without issue which puts it in the 3500+ catagory. Since your not that big on overclocking i would suggest a direct overclock to 3200+ speeds as this would be a walk in the park for the 2600+

RAM: Kingston 512mb DDR3200 $125CND same site, 1 stick for now, might get a second later on.

I have gone for Giel ram myself but kingston is a good choice and PC3200 will enable you to clock the barton to 3200+ speeds minimum.

Video: I'll probably go with the ATi Radeon 9800 pro 128mb $313 same site but I was looking at the MSI FX5900xt which was a bit cheaper, is it worth it to pay an extra $30 or $40 for extra performance?

The Nvidia FX cards are terrible. Not only are they slower than thier ATI counterparts but they have lower image quality. Now im not some ATI fanboy as im a huge fan of nvidia's geforece 6 series of cards its just that nvidia dropped the ball with the FX cards. Stick with the 9800

Audio: Need help in this department, I'd like a cheap, decent audio card which is 5.1 and compatible with most games. I've been looking at the Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 which is $42CND. I believe that the mobo comes with on-board sound, should I just leave it at that since I don't care much for speaker setups or surround sound (I usually play in my head phones)?

If you go with the Asus A7N8X-E like i suggested you will have an onboard sound solution thats superior to anything that creative can offer. Nvidia soundstorm rocks hard... im sure they could put creative out of business if the started producing PCI soundcard solutions!

Also, I heard that the 9800pro gets pretty hot so will I need to add an additional fan?

It depends which 9800 brand you buy. As some brands manufacture boards that dont have the ATI 9800 stock cooler solution which isnt all that good.

I'm hoping that this upgrade will last me for a long time to come, it's been 4 years since I've done anything major like this! I can't believe that ut2k4 even runs on this system, considering it's under the minimum requirements in some aspects.

I'm not too big into OC'ing so please consider that.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Price of what you suggested = $854CND
Price of my suggestion = $700CND

I garuntee you my solution will be faster also