US Government Seizes Newborn Over Parent's Political Belief

Danimal

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"Couple who took part in Oath Keepers online discussion forum have child snatched in shocking new level of police state persecution"

http://www.prisonplanet.com/government-seizes-newborn-baby-over-political-beliefs-of-parents.html

PrisonPlanet.com said:
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Friday, October 8, 2010

UPDATE: We have now obtained a copy of the affidavit which can be viewed below. This confirms that Irish was targeted partly because of his association with Oath Keepers, in addition to the fact that he bought guns. Apparently, exercising the second amendment is now reasonable justification for the state to steal your child in America.

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Note: the following is from a separate document and not part of the above document.
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A newborn baby was ripped from its mother’s arms by officials from the New Hampshire Division of Family Child Services accompanied by police after authorities cited the parents’ association with the Oath Keepers organization as one of the primary reasons for the snatch, heralding a shocking new level of persecution where Americans’ political beliefs are now being used by the state to kidnap children.

What was supposed to be one of the most joyous occasions of their lives turned into a nightmare for Johnathon Irish and Stephanie Janvrin, after they were told by The Director of Security and the Head Nurse at Concord Hospital that their baby would be taken to be checked by the hospital pediatrician.

“They lied to us – they got us to allow them to take our daughter under false pretenses, we didn’t even have a choice,” said Irish.

When Irish tried to stop his daughter being taken, the baby was immediately wheeled out in a bassinet, after which Irish saw three men in suits accompanied by uniformed police officers as well as detectives and social workers. who proceeded to try to search Irish.

“They forced me to stand up, held my hands behind my back and patted me down,” said Irish, before police told him they were taking the baby.

“My fiancé didn’t even get any time to bond with the baby – they came in and stole our child,” said Irish. The parents were given a couple of minutes with their daughter before being forced by police to leave the hospital. Irish was subsequently told that a “security officer” would follow his every move.
The affidavit in support of the decision to take the child, which has been verified by Oath Keepers, states, “The Division became aware and confirmed that Mr. Irish associated with a militia known as the Oath Keepers,” confirming that political beliefs were, amongst other reasons, one of the primary factors behind the snatching of the baby.Even if the additional reasons cited in the affidavit, which are unproven at this time, could be considered sufficient reason for the state to take the baby, the fact that political affiliations were even mentioned is a frightening indictment of how far the government’s war on Americans who dissent against authority has advanced.

“Regardless of the other allegations, it is utterly unconstitutional for government agencies to list Mr. Irish’s association with Oath Keepers in an affidavit in support of a child abuse order to remove his daughter from his custody.” writes Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes.


“Talk about chilling speech! If this is allowed to continue, it will chill the speech of not just Mr. Irish, but all Oath Keepers and it will serve as the camel under the tent for other associations being considered too risky for parents to dare. Thus, it serves to chill the speech of all of us, in any group we belong to that “officials” may not approve of. Don’t you dare associate with such and such group, or you could be on “the list” and then child protective services might come take your kids.”

The parents were not even full members of the Oath Keepers organization, they were merely on a discussion list related to the group. This makes the case even more shocking – you don’t even have to be directly associated with a group that the government deems to be a “militia” to have your baby stolen – you merely have to be involved in online discussions of issues relating to the constitution and freedom in America.

The Oath Keepers organization is not a “militia,” as the affidavit claims, it is merely a loose network of current and former military and law enforcement professionals who have sworn not to obey unconstitutional orders such as gun confiscation, warrantless searches and mass internment of Americans. The group is committed to non-violence.


If this case is allowed to stand it opens up a hellish future for free speech and political discourse in America. If parents live in fear of having their children stolen by the state because they criticize the government, the United States can rank itself amongst the worst dictatorships in history who invoked the threat of taking people’s children if they spoke out against tyranny.

Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes has announced that a legal defense fund will be created to help Irish, and that the organization, “will actively pursue aggressive legal remedy and redress.”

“We will assist in locating competent local legal counsel in New Hampshire and additional expert legal counsel from around the country in First Amendment and child custody law,” wrote Stewart on the Oath Keepers website.


“There can be no freedom of speech, no freedom of association, no freedom to even open your mouth and “speak truth to power,” no freedom AT ALL, if your children can be black bagged and stolen from you because of your political speech and associations — because you simply dare to express your love of country, and dare to express your solidarity and fellowship with other citizens and with active duty and retired military and police who simply pledge to honor their oath and obey the Constitution. It was to prevent just such outrageous content based persecution of political dissidents that our First Amendment was written.”

Some journalist dude calls the parents:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvZRM-P46rI&feature=player_embedded
 
If true, this is an extreme abuse by law enforcement/government. But I have the feeling that we aren't getting the full story here. Maybe there is some real legitimate reason for the baby being taken away that the authorities haven't released yet. I mean, if they're willing to take the baby away from some Oath Keeper's members, wouldn't they have been doing this before with other, more extreme groups?
 
If true, this is an extreme abuse by law enforcement/government. But I have the feeling that we aren't getting the full story here. Maybe there is some real legitimate reason for the baby being taken away that the authorities haven't released yet. I mean, if they're willing to take the baby away from some Oath Keeper's members, wouldn't they have been doing this before with other, more extreme groups?

Exactly.


Also, I wonder how the US Government is going to use the baby. Gene experiments? Space launches? I mean obviously the baby was seized, so it prolly has a tattoo that says "PROPERTY OF US GOVERNMENT".
 
How is being a member of an armed bullshit nutjob militia not relevant? "Militia"s like these are hardly more than domestic terrorist groups. I think thats something completely valid bit of information to include when determining a person's ability to safely raise a child. Especially since there were "other, very serious allegations". Its not like his being a part of the militia was the only reason they did this, it was one factor of many, the SUM of which led to this event.
 
There is definitely more to this.
 
Threats made to Concord Hospital about the time of a protest there Friday prompted a response from the FBI and the state police's bomb sniffing dogs, an FBI agent said yesterday.

On Thursday, the newborn daughter of an Epsom couple was seized by police officers and state social workers because authorities said the girl's father, Johnathan Irish, had a history of beating his fiancee and her two other children.

The affidavit also noted that Irish is "associated with a militia known as the Oath Keepers and had purchased several different types of weapons including a rifle, handgun and Taser."

Irish interpreted this as a reason that authorities had taken his child, and his case quickly garnered support from the online Libertarian community. On Friday afternoon, about 20 people who had never met Irish gathered at the hospital in protest.

Oh, look at that! Hes a wife and child beater! WHO WOULD HAVE GUESSED? Oh and whats this? His supporters call in bomb threats on a hospital that had nothing to do with the police actions! THATS IRRELEVANT POLITICAL SLANDER!

http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/219798/fbi-responds-to-hospital-threat
 
How is being a member of an armed bullshit nutjob militia not relevant? "Militia"s like these are hardly more than domestic terrorist groups. I think thats something completely valid bit of information to include when determining a person's ability to safely raise a child. Especially since there were "other, very serious allegations". Its not like his being a part of the militia was the only reason they did this, it was one factor of many, the SUM of which led to this event.
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I read all of Danimal's posts with a spoonful of yoghurt.

<3

EDIT: Wow Krynn you always get mad at my threads. :(
 
Wow, that's my ex-girlfriend's name. And that might be her. EDIT: No, it's not.

All I read was that she was charged with two counts of child neglect. Yeah, they take your kids if you neglect them. If you have more, they will take them too. :shock:
 
I'm iffy on that article. It seems biased.
 
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<3

EDIT: Wow Krynn you always get mad at my threads. :(

Yes, because they're stupid and full of misinformation, hyperbole and various other bullshit that everyone should be able to see through within seconds.

And it wasn't just a discussion "list" that was "related to" Oath Keepers. He was an active user on an Oath Keeper message board. Again, misinformation through obtuse and misleading wording that should be as transparent as air.
 
It's just too bad that one of these days Danimal will be disappeared.
 
Oh, look at that! Hes a wife and child beater! WHO WOULD HAVE GUESSED? Oh and whats this? His supporters call in bomb threats on a hospital that had nothing to do with the police actions! THATS IRRELEVANT POLITICAL SLANDER!

http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/219798/fbi-responds-to-hospital-threat



Yep... there was a whole thread on this over on the Hannity forums(Yep, I still read them. Yep, they're still as wacky as ever!), and even they acknowledged the bogusness(after proof) of the WND article. Though... I guess the article here is prisonplanet, from Danimal.

Come on Danimal... you know better.
 
I know better?

I copied, pasted and linked up an article I skimmed over today in my usual readings, Raz, and I posted it on a video gaming forum's off-topic section to generate some kind of discussion about it; tid-bits of rhetoric, personality and humour from the regulars that I've grown warm to. A discussion was surely generated, those tid-bits of consciousness delivered as usual, and I was pleased to see people actually looked into this and came up with a good conclusion while I was busy scratching my balls and pondering on what to do, today.

Are you implying that I, perhaps, wrote the article myself? Or that I was overbearingly pushing a point? I really don't even understand the intent behind your post, Raz.
 
I know better?

I copied, pasted and linked up an article I skimmed over today in my usual readings, Raz, and I posted it on a video gaming forum's off-topic section to generate some kind of discussion about it; tid-bits of rhetoric, personality and humour from the regulars that I've grown warm to. A discussion was surely generated, those tid-bits of consciousness delivered as usual, and I was pleased to see people actually looked into this and came up with a good conclusion while I was busy scratching my balls and pondering on what to do, today.

Are you implying that I, perhaps, wrote the article myself? Or that I was overbearingly pushing a point? I really don't even understand the intent behind your post, Raz.

It's Prison Planet. A little objectivity goes a long way. Honestly, the same goes for any source of news. This article sounded so incredibly biased, so knee-jerk it was screaming of falsities. I mean, it doesn't really take much independent research to verify the accuracy of such claims, or in this case the complete absurdity of it.

This type of article, and places like Prison Planet and WND rely on people just taking in what they say and not questioning it. "Obama bowed down to a foreign head of state and gave him a blow job?" It must be true!


I just wish people tried to spend some effort to independently verify news stories they post so they aren't so immediately and disastrously debunked. I know I myself have failed to do this a few times recently, and plenty of times early in my posting past.
 
It's Prison Planet. A little objectivity goes a long way. Honestly, the same goes for any source of news. This article sounded so incredibly biased, so knee-jerk it was screaming of falsities. I mean, it doesn't really take much independent research to verify the accuracy of such claims, or in this case the complete absurdity of it.

This type of article, and places like Prison Planet and WND rely on people just taking in what they say and not questioning it. "Obama bowed down to a foreign head of state and gave him a blow job?" It must be true!


I just wish people tried to spend some effort to independently verify news stories they post so they aren't so immediately and disastrously debunked. I know I myself have failed to do this a few times recently, and plenty of times early in my posting past.

Point of my post: -









Your delicious, bovine head: -

You don't understand what I am trying to say. But it is okay, because it still technically fuels the same point as to why I post things in forums to generate discussion.

EDIT:

Ereshteux you used to be cool when I kept mistaking you for Persmerga.

Also:

prison planet is the site, of paranoia enthusiast, and 9//11 truth cult leader, Alex Jones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct21YCEiWMM&playnext=1&videos=q-jS7bZzR4A&feature=mfu_in_order

That vilemonkey youtube account's got some pretty funny edits. Though "edits" is the keyword here. Tbh I think the vilemonkey account was created to push the idea that Alex Jones is hired by Zionist Jews for the sake misdirection from all the comments on just about all his videos. (But that's just fringe territory)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68e7nOS9IKc&NR=1
 
Why would you post this to "generate discussion" when you're constantly whining that no one discusses any of this shit with you?
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On topic, I love how they go from -

“Regardless of the other allegations, it is utterly unconstitutional for government agencies to list Mr. Irish’s association with Oath Keepers in an affidavit in support of a child abuse order to remove his daughter from his custody.”
to -

you don’t even have to be directly associated with a group that the government deems to be a “militia” to have your baby stolen
BUT IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'RE JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS OR ANYTHING
 
Child taken away from abusive/neglectful parent(s) shocker.
 
I know better?

Well, yeah. Now that it's been established - and it didn't take much work - that the story is nonsense, the article itself is pretty worthless. What kind of discussion were you hoping to generate?
 
Well, yeah. Now that it's been established - and it didn't take much work - that the story is nonsense, the article itself is pretty worthless. What kind of discussion were you hoping to generate?

Well any, really. I just don't understand where this "You know better" comes from when I've got nothing to do with writing the article, I just quoted and linked it in a thread on a forum for people to discuss, sort of thing.
 
Well any, really. I just don't understand where this "You know better" comes from when I've got nothing to do with writing the article, I just quoted and linked it in a thread on a forum for people to discuss, sort of thing.

It's not a "YOU" know better, as in simply you and nobody else. It'd be directed at any individual posting it, honestly. It's just you in this case.

And it doesn't matter that you didn't write it, that's not the point. Of course you didn't write it. It's simply the fact that it's so ridiculously absurd.

I mean honestly, was your point just to provoke ANY type of discussion(even though it should have been clear the only discussion would have been about how absurd the article is because of the false claims), or did you believe it and wanted us to see it?
 
Danimal will convince us that we were all wrong, one day. Wrong about everything. At least he thinks so.

At this point, I laughed really hard. <3 Yogurt
 
Like I've said twice now, ANY type of discussion. Christ save me.
 
But are figures of speech?

Probably.
 
Like I've said twice now, ANY type of discussion. Christ save me.

Argh... that's so frustrating though. I mean there's an infinite amount of absurd bullshit stuff out there that would provoke ANY type of discussion. But it's ridiculous to give time to them.

But come on Danimal, even our discussion about your desire to bring out ANY sort of discussion is a discussion in itself, so why are you so flustered?
 
Well any, really. I just don't understand where this "You know better" comes from when I've got nothing to do with writing the article, I just quoted and linked it in a thread on a forum for people to discuss, sort of thing.

If you posted the article intending to stimulate debate or what-have-you, you must have assumed that the content of the article was worthy of debate, ie not full of shit. As the article clearly is full of shit, it's not a useful discussion point. So you either

- didn't read the article with a critical eye, and posted it believing it to be true, or

- knew it was nonsense, but posted it without context anyway

Both are lame, but I think the former is correct, and if I'm right, then what a bunch of people have already said applies - read critically and check your sources before posting articles.
 
But come on Danimal, even our discussion about your desire to bring out ANY sort of discussion is a discussion in itself, so why are you so flustered?

That's my point. That right there is my point. I am glad someone has seen this.

I am trying to provide a topic to make discussion in the off-topic forum, it just happened to be a poorly grounded article.

I interpreted "You should know better" as "This act is a direct interpretation of your intelligence". An insult. Which was evidently a mistake.

I asked about it.
You explained it.

Hopefully this thread can continue in as little of a shitstormesque manner as possible.
 
That's my point. That right there is my point.

I am trying to provide a topic to make discussion in the off-topic forum, it just happened to be a poorly grounded article.

I interpreted "You should know better" as "This act is a direct interpretation of your intelligence". Which was evidently a mistake.

I asked about it.
You explained it.

Hopefully this thread can continue in as little of a shitstormesque manner as possible.

If you are so interested in this thread generating discussion, I just have to ask why you made no attempt in the OP to raise certain points of discussion to try and kick start the conversation. I mean... we basically figured out our own path of discussion and that has resulted in a questioning of the thread based on the weak and bogus premises of the story.


You basically just posted the article, and an accompanying video and that's it. So from my point of view all I'm left to think is that you entirely believe what the article says and simply wanted to share it with us.
 
Danimal: "I'm not saying the government did 9/11 I'm just asking questions/whiny voice
 
I don't get it either, I have a hankerin' to fill Solaris' wall-thing with transcripts from Loose Change (I haven't seen it anyway so it'll be productive for both us) and Ron Paul '12 bumper stickers.

But instead I'll just report the OP and drown my sorrows etc. etc.
 
I don't get it either, I have a hankerin' to fill Solaris' wall-thing with transcripts from Loose Change (I haven't seen it anyway so it'll be productive for both us) and Ron Paul '12 bumper stickers.

But instead I'll just report the OP and drown my sorrows etc. etc.

Nah dude, you're taking it too seriously. No need to report your post. That's ridiculous.

The only mistake maybe was in judgement for a brief period. I mean shit, many of my threads are exactly like that.
 
IT'S TOO LATE RAZIAAR, I HAVE REPORTED MY THREAD.

TELL THE POLICE TO LOOK IN THE BATHROOM

I AM SO SORRY
 
Danimal, there is something you should know.
We are all working for the government.
 
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