US, Iranian students willing to take extreme measures when faced with own mortality

[CptStern]

Young adults in Iran tend to support martyrdom more when they are thinking about their own mortality.

Likewise, Americans are more in favor of extreme military intervention when they are contemplating their own deaths.

In a new study, 40 Iranian college students heard statements supporting and opposing suicide bombing attacks on U.S. targets. A portion of the test subjects who were also asked to ponder their own deaths were more likely to favor the bombings and consider joining such a cause.

"Thoughts of death led young people in the Middle East who ordinarily preferred a person who took a pacifist stance to switch their allegiance to a person who advocated suicide bombings," the study authors write this month in the journal Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin. "These findings provide the first experimental evidence documenting the psychological determinants of the appeal of martyrdom."

A similar survey was done on 127 students at Rutgers University in New Jersey. They were asked whether they support extreme military actions such as the use of nuclear and chemical weapons and pre-emptive strikes against countries that might pose a threat to the United States.

Support for extreme measures increased among those Rutgers test subjects who were first asked to ponder their own deaths.

"Despite their differences, Americans and Iranians have something in common—thoughts of death increase the willingness of people from both nations to inflict harm on citizens of the other nation," the authors write. "The same psychological inclinations that make them want to kill us make us want to kill them—regardless of which specific group is referred to by the words 'us' and 'them.'"

http://www.livescience.com/othernews/060424_extreme_action.html


I guess it proves how effective even a little propaganda can be. It's disconcerting that today's youth are so willing to embrace the road to madness rather than take the hard route and negotiate disputes peacefully.

Would you be willing to take drastic measures (nuking iran/suicide bomber taking out western targets) if it meant you might be safer

 

[Black Pete]

We wouldn't be safer because we have many oil dependencies in the Middle East, and a fractured economy is never safe. Nuking anyone in the Middle East would hurt us a lot.

 

[CptStern]

low yield bunker buster nukes

here watch this

 

[Black Pete]

Still, we would be cut off from trade with any overly aggressive action. Remember the oil crisis during Carter's term?

 

[CptStern]

yet it doesnt seem to impede the bush admin in the least ..and yes I remember the "shortage" during carters term ..I lived through it. Also I dont think the bush admin cares all that much about the economy

 

[Sulkdodds]

Stern in thread-without-emphasis-on-America shocker!

But I guess this just proves all people are bastards.
Although it does seem to highlight some interesting cultural differences.

 

[CptStern]

heh the US is technically part of this thread ..oh and the overwhelming majority of my threads are NOT about the US

 

[Raziaar]

Why can't these stupid idiots fight back without blowing themselves up in the process... and avoiding civilian casualties too.

I'd have alot more respect for them, then.

They're incompetent to get the job done, if they can't do it without killing themselves in the process.

That being said... if my country was being invaded, i'd likely fight back and support fighting back if the invader was oppressive and brutal. But I wouldn't suicide myself, nor would I want others to do the same. You can do so much more damage if you're still alive in the process.

 

[CptStern]

Why can't these stupid idiots fight back without blowing themselves up in the process... and avoiding civilian casualties too.

I'd have alot more respect for them, then.

They're incompetent to get the job done, if they can't do it without killing themselves in the process.

That being said... if my country was being invaded, i'd likely fight back and support fighting back if the invader was oppressive and brutal. But I wouldn't suicide myself, nor would I want others to do the same. You can do so much more damage if you're still alive in the process.

please read the article ..it talks about US students willing to use WMD when faced with an enemy ..the only difference here is number of casualties ...suicide bomber vs nuclear strike

 

[Raziaar]

please read the article ..it talks about US students willing to use WMD when faced with an enemy ..the only difference here is number of casualties ...suicide bomber vs nuclear strike

I did read the thread. I just didn't comment on the nuclear thing. I think its a given I wouldn't want to use nuclear weapons even in such a situation.

Well... unless it means nuking the enemies homeland, rather than your own homeland where the invaders are.

 

[VirusType2]

please read the article ..it talks about US students willing to use WMD when faced with an enemy ..the only difference here is number of casualties ...suicide bomber vs nuclear strike

What I don't understand is why suicide-bombers keep targeting civilians? Don't you think it would be smarter for them to attack military targets, and also to get the world on their side? Why do they keep blowing up hotel buildings and things like this around the world?

Just yesterday I think I heard 2 large hotels were blown up.

 

[CptStern]

can we please stay focused? this has nothing to do with why they target who they do, it's a thread about how people are easily manipulated into supporting drastic measures

 

[VirusType2]

NO. it's an important question, it's completely relative, and it's been eating me up for years. You could have just as easily not said anything or tell me why if you know. If you don't know than the question doesn't apply to you.

*Virus gets heated for a moment*

I'll just go to another politics forum somewhere else so where you can post every other post and counter anyone's input all you want.

*And then its gone.*

It's a politics forum anyway, the topic you want to discuss is human phsychology. I have no clue. When you are scared, you do crazy shit. There is your answer.

 

[CptStern]

? I didnt answer because it's not clear cut (there are literally hundred of groups all with different motivations) and would only derail this topic ..all we need is one comment by Kerberos or someone like minded and this thread will descend into a excercise on palestinian bashing

 

[Raziaar]

? I didnt answer because it's not clear cut (there are literally hundred of groups all with different motivations) and would only derail this topic ..all we need is one comment by Kerberos or someone like minded and this thread will descend into a excercise on palestinian bashing

As opposed to Israel bashing?

 

[CptStern]

oh here we go :upstare:

who the **** cares? this isnt what the thread is about

 

[el Chi]

Well... unless it means nuking the enemies homeland

Which is acceptable?

And if Iranian suicide bombers decided that, rather than using bombs on their own turf, they set off a nuclear device on US soil (ie; the enemy's homeland) that would be fair warfare etiquette?

 

[Raziaar]

Which is acceptable?

Neither in a perfect world.

 

[Kadayi]

I guess it proves how effective even a little propaganda can be. It's disconcerting that today's youth are so willing to embrace the road to madness rather than take the hard route and negotiate disputes peacefully.

Discussion means that someone might end up having to concede that they were wrong about something. Unfortunately the modern way is that people would rather destroy their/others lives than possibly admit to their own mistakes. Few people in this life have the balls to admit to being the bad man. :dozey:

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Why can't these stupid idiots fight back without blowing themselves up in the process... and avoiding civilian casualties too.

I'd have alot more respect for them, then.

They're incompetent to get the job done, if they can't do it without killing themselves in the process.

It's the wests kryptonite. Most of us cannot fathom the motivations for suicide bombings. We abhor it to the core, but can somehow rationalise and calmy discuss the nuking of Iran. Strange hypocrisy.

Suicide bombing is just not part of western culture. Most of us here live in countries rooted in Christian teachings, the new testament. Suicide bombing is just not considered, tactically or morally. The Irish Republic Army never used suicide bombers against English targets as far as i know. Better to secretly plant a bomb and keep one of your soldiers alive. If you raise that soldier from birth with the belief sacrificing themselves for killing non-believers will win you a place in heaven it's a different story.

I still don't understand the culture of suicide bombing in certain Islamic countries. Some say it's a misintepretation of the Koran but these big countries are in such a point of their history where moderate clerics don't hold much sway so the far-right clerics maintain a perpetual state of cultural infancy.

Either way it's still sad to see both sides falling for propaganda. It's the paranoia and fear of both Americans and Iranians that will start a war. Bush and his warmongers fueling the war machine, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad reciting similar rhetoric about Israel and the west.

Sometimes I really feel like dropping humanity to their knees with a hefty kick to the nads. Holy shit!

 

[Ome_Vince]

In general i find young people more aggressive, and intollerant than older people. Students and young people would much more easily say "nuke em" than older people.
Part of growing up is learning to be tollerant towards other people and their cultures.

Hence you see mostly young neo-nazi's and other radicals....

 

[VirusType2]

First let me say that was a really good post and I learned some things from it Mr. Fusion.

If you raise that soldier from birth with the belief sacrificing themselves for killing non-believers will win you a place in heaven it's a different story.

Exactly - these mother****ers (suicide civilian mass murderer bombers carrying out plans of genocide) are completely brainwashed beyond repair by something that they cannot question. Religion. The ultimate Fallacy.

It's the wests kryptonite. Most of us cannot fathom the motivations for suicide bombings. We abhor it to the core, but can somehow rationalise and calmy discuss the nuking of Iran. Strange hypocrisy.

Who - in charge of US - rationalizes and calmly discusses the nuking of Iran? Even if you do find some estranged source saying otherwise but the fact is that we don't nuke Iran, we didn't nuke Iraq, we vowed that they would only be used as a last resort - and this is not that situation, we are not in huge imminent danger of losing our country right now.

But this is serious talk now. Listen to this - If they had the weapons we do, half the world might be destroyed don't you think? Strap a ****ing nuke around your waist? Sure, I don't know that, but these people are blowing themselves up to kill us. Why not put a bigger bomb around your waste? What difference does it make to the person wearing it?

How can we allow these guys - who are militarily inferior to us at this point, develop nuclear technology to pass along to terrorists to come over to America, Britain and every other non-believer? I don't think we can let them have this shit at any costs.

HERE STERN:
That scares the shit out of me, and thats how we end up on the test saying < "bomb the nuclear facilities" and they have the mentality, "we are being attacked. They are bombing us, strap up the self-destruct bomb for the win!" And your question is how does it work? WELL ITS US OR THEM, and THEY FEEL THE SAME WAY.

So you say that it's hypocrisy for the West's citizens to debate whether to nuke a country, and you compare nukes to suicide bombers, but in Middle East they are actually carrying out their part, and have been for years

New bombs 17 hours ago at the time of this post:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4709491.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/egypt/story/0,,1760781,00.html
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2006/s1623127.htm

Two Large hotels full of civilians were destroyed yesterday by suicide bombers. They are dropping their 'nukes.' And they are dropping them without discretion, and without remorse, and without delay. Imagine if they had their hands on nuclear weapons Jesus Christ help us.

This is the fear that will cause us to take part in the destruction of this planet. We don't seem to have a choice.

Everyone get scared as ****ing shit. Now you are feeling the feeling where you feel how they feel. And now we feel it. STERN THIS IS WHAT YOU WANTED? To figure out how this West and Middle East 'brainwashing' works?

We have done some things that they cannot accept. Things in the past - meddling with their affairs, hell, I don't know why they hate us the most, I guess because we are allies with Israel? And because of the US dividing land up there? And they are enemies with Israel, so we are their enemy by relation, and therefore they will die by suicide to kill us all because they feel threatened, they don't care if they die, as long as we die first.

Here is my on the spot revalation: Technically they can't get into heaven by blowing themselves up to kill us because when the bomb explodes they die first, before killing us. ::

Did you ever see predator? With his dying breath, he set the self destruct button and wiped out the ****ing planet. This is a suicide bomber.

What are we doing? Trying to rebuild their ****ed up governments for them and they are so ****ing brainwashed into hate. THE IRAN PRESIDENT CALLS FORTH THE APOCALYPSE (the end of the world) BY HIS HAND, And his people fear HIM into being so tough. He gets a rush knowing that if he isn't just as crazy as the craziest citizen, he will be 'replaced.'

It's really ****ing sad because by nature, I love everyone, and the extreme Muslims hate everyone but themselves, and so we are dragged into this. Make no mistake we don't want this war, we can't afford this war, but when you are attacked you don't say, "no thanks, we are saving our money so we can rebuild the things you destroyed and to pay off some debt" No brother. It's on now mother****er. The war officially began when they attacked our government and civilian buildings. They FORCED and are Forcing their beliefs onto the world with senseless bombings everywhere, while the West tries to CONVINCE them to be democratic and diplomatic, and to cut the shit out first of all.

Sometimes I really feel like dropping humanity to their knees with a hefty kick to the nads. Holy shit!

HAHA

Once again great post, you had me thinking. Am I right about anything I said? I don't know, I sort of made it up any fuzzy areas as I went along. It's what I believe until someone shows me otherwise

 

[Sainku]

Nuclear bunker busters don't make any sense. Conventional weapons are effective enough at destroying buried targets. I seriously doubt they will ever be used on a target which is nearly incapable of retaliation.

 

[kirovman]

Saladin says: Yes, we must forge a closer relationship or else.

-1000: You have fallen sway of a heathen religion!

 

[VirusType2]

Few people in this life have the balls to admit to being the bad man.

Oh we have the biggest balls of all then. Condellesa Rice went on to say we made 1000's of mistakes. LMFAO, then later went on to say that she was only being figurative, not an actual number, just meaning AN ENTIRE ****ING SHIT-LOAD OF MISTAKES, But not specifically 1,000's


Oh and I spent 2 hours just editing my previous post so I hope someone takes 5 minutes to read it please. I suck at politics, this is too much work

 

[CptStern]

I've read it ...I just dont want to spend the next 30 mins shredding it (no really, I'm kidding)

 

[Llama]

I dont fully understand the point of the thread. I mean in the survey the American questions basically asks people if they would kill to survive, and I sure as hell would if I had to survive (Well, not children / Women but you know what I mean)
Although I see the point you're making on the Iranian students, it's frighteneing what people become when exposed to influencing biased media / Propoganda

 

[15357]

I dont fully understand the point of the thread. I mean in the survey the American questions basically asks people if they would kill to survive, and I sure as hell would if I had to survive (Well, not children / Women but you know what I mean)
Although I see the point you're making on the Iranian students, it's frighteneing what people become when exposed to influencing biased media / Propoganda

Yeah. But you must agree that we must destroy the enemy before they get us... all.

 

[el Chi]

Neither in a perfect world.

Yes but that doesn't really answer my question.

 

[Ome_Vince]

Cmon guys, both the Iranian students as well as the American students are still KIDS..
KIDS overall are more drastic and "violent" than older people, so its natural that when they are pissed/scared they try to threaten with "whom's got the biggest boom-stick"..
Nevertheless, its still interesting to read the similarities on how young ppl on various parts of the world go for drastic means when feeling "threatened".

 

[CptStern]

I dont fully understand the point of the thread. I mean in the survey the American questions basically asks people if they would kill to survive, and I sure as hell would if I had to survive (Well, not children / Women but you know what I mean)

the article is about using extreme measures ..in the US' case it's nukes ..so yes it would involve killing women and children and yes the majority of those asked say they would support the use of nukes

 

[el Chi]

I dont fully understand the point of the thread. I mean in the survey the American questions basically asks people if they would kill to survive, and I sure as hell would if I had to survive (Well, not children / Women but you know what I mean)

What, a horde of kids comes at you with knives and hammers and whatnot and you have a gun to defend yourself and you wouldn't give it a whirl? You'd just say "Well, they're kids, it wouldn't be morally right."
Same for women.

 

[VictimOfScience]

There are a couple of certainties here:

1. Nukes are just plain bad.
2. Suicide bombings are just plain bad.

Nuclear Weapons in whatever form you like are a horrible idea and frankly should never be considered for use on this planet if we all want to survive. Suicide bombs are carried by and large by people who don't necessarily agree with all of the philosophies surrounding the myths of paradise, but to a greater extent need the money that is promised to their families by the brainwashing parasites that exploit the poor and lonely to carry out these horrible acts.

The government of this country (the US) and the Iranian government would like their people to live in fear of an oppressor/aggressor because then they can control the masses much more effectively and get them to support whatever hare-brained scheme they have up their sleeve, including pre-emptive (nuclear) strikes or suicide bombings.

To me, "pre-emptive strike" sounds a lot like pre-meditated murder. Suicide bombings are both murder and suicide. These are both completely unacceptable. I can only hope that the powers-that-be will quickly come to realize that talking-out one's issues is a much more gratifying solution than blowing each other up. Because with a war, like the premise of the upcoming title Defcon states, "Its not who wins, but who loses less."

 

[Llama]

What, a horde of kids comes at you with knives and hammers and whatnot and you have a gun to defend yourself and you wouldn't give it a whirl? You'd just say "Well, they're kids, it wouldn't be morally right."
Same for women.

I guess in my arrogance I didnt think of such dangerous circumstances

 

[el Chi]

I guess in my arrogance I didnt think of such dangerous circumstances

Yeah well in the turbulent times we live in it's best to assume that infants are holding onto lethal weapons first and answer police questions later.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

What, a horde of kids comes at you with knives and hammers and whatnot and you have a gun to defend yourself and you wouldn't give it a whirl? You'd just say "Well, they're kids, it wouldn't be morally right."
Same for women.

Hammers or not, I'd shoot the crap out of the kids.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[K e r b e r o s]

can we please stay focused? this has nothing to do with why they target who they do, it's a thread about how people are easily manipulated into supporting drastic measures

Anyone can be manipulated [Iranian Students, American Students], its a question of how [War against West, War against ... WMD's?!].

This just goes to show us that people on both sides are'nt thinking logically about they're problems, past, present, or future.

 

[Llama]

To be honest, im not suprised. Acting without thought is just human reaction to danger, increased by the old saying - A person is smart, people are stupid