US officer to Marines: "crank up the violence"

[CptStern]

A Marine corporal testifying in a court-martial said Marines in his unit began routinely beating Iraqis after officers ordered them to "crank up the violence level."

"We were told to crank up the violence level," said Lopezromo, testifying for the defense.

When a juror asked for further explanation, Lopezromo said: "We beat people, sir."

Within weeks of allegedly being scolded, seven Marines and a Navy corpsman went out late one night to find and kill a suspected insurgent in the village of Hamandiya near the Abu Ghraib prison. The Marines and corpsman were from 2nd Platoon, Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 5th Regiment.

Lopezromo said the suspected insurgent was known to his neighbors as the "prince of jihad," and had been arrested several times and later released by the Iraqi legal system.

Unable to find him, the Marines and corpsman dragged another man from his house, fatally shot him, and then planted an AK-47 assault rifle near the body to make it appear he had been killed in a shootout, according to court testimony.

Lopezromo, who was not part of the squad on its late-night mission, said he saw nothing wrong with what Thomas did.

"I don't see it as an execution, sir," he told the judge. "I see it as killing the enemy."

He said Marines consider all Iraqi men part of the insurgency.

humanitarian mission my ass

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070715/ap_on_re_us/marines_iraq_shooting

 

[15357]

Retarded devil dog.

 

[0mar]

Marines are ****ing crazy. They'll pretty much take anyone; to be rejected by the Marines is to be really unstable. Every other branch of the Armed Forces call them "Bullet Sponges" and "****ing crazies" because of how they are trained. You'll very rarely see other branches of our Armed Forces be on trial for this kind of shit. Remember that story last year about the Iraqi massacre/rape? Those were Marines.

 

[Solaris]

Marines are ****ing crazy. They'll pretty much take anyone; to be rejected by the Marines is to be really unstable. Every other branch of the Armed Forces call them "Bullet Sponges" and "****ing crazies" because of how they are trained. You'll very rarely see other branches of our Armed Forces be on trial for this kind of shit. Remember that story last year about the Iraqi massacre/rape? Those were Marines.

Rubbish.
The air force for one kill thousands brutally with their bombings.

 

[Bob_Marley]

Marines are ****ing crazy. They'll pretty much take anyone; to be rejected by the Marines is to be really unstable. Every other branch of the Armed Forces call them "Bullet Sponges" and "****ing crazies" because of how they are trained. You'll very rarely see other branches of our Armed Forces be on trial for this kind of shit. Remember that story last year about the Iraqi massacre/rape? Those were Marines.

Thats because they're marines. They're trained to be shock troops. They're probubly the worst choice for an occupying force one could make out of any of the US armed services.

 

[The Monkey]

No wonder if you were trained by this guy:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeX5HSBFooI[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Lucid]

The USMC ****ing owns.

 

[0mar]

Rubbish.
The air force for one kill thousands brutally with their bombings.

well, I can see where you are going with that, but they are simply following orders. A valid comparison would be if Air Force pilots were flying missions and bombing unauthorized targets indiscriminately.

 

[CptStern]

well, I can see where you are going with that, but they are simply following orders. A valid comparison would be if Air Force pilots were flying missions and bombing unauthorized targets indiscriminately.

during desert storm, 1991 the coalition bombed water treatment/sanitation plants in Iraq that directly led to the deaths of a million iraqis over a 12 year period ..mostly from illnesses brought upon by poor drinking water/deplorable sanitation conditions, over 500,000 children under the age of 5 died because it ....so in that respect air campaigns can have a much greater effect on a populace than ground warefare ..at least in this day and age of limited ground campaigns

 

[Sulkdodds]

I like how the OP follows the Stern thread archetype exactly.

- Eye-catching thread title.
- Extract in quote; news story detailing single incident regarding villainies commited by US government, corporations, or both.
- "______ my ass", implicating that the single incident is in fact part of a wider phenomenon and should be taken as indicative.
- Source.


Observe:

Honestly, CptStern, the "lol, look at america, they so dumb" threads are getting old...you post these isolated police events a lot... and post them as if they're a widespread epidemic. Then you seal the deal with a one liner like "Land of the free my ass," or something to that effect.

Variation my ass.

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2311326&postcount=60

But that's all by-the-by; in this case suggesting it's a wide thing is entirely plausible since the order comes down legitimately through the chain of command amidst a fairly eventful occupation that has already resulted in many, many brutalities. This new information is pretty interesting, if unsurprising by now.

But the format amused me.

 

[Icarusintel]

Thats because they're marines. They're trained to be shock troops. They're probubly the worst choice for an occupying force one could make out of any of the US armed services.

The problem comes from them being used as occupation forces. They're not. They're invasion forces. The Army is an occupational force and is trained as such.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Yeah, but the Army blows. MARINES, HOO-RAH. SEMPER FI.

 

[CptStern]

I like how the OP follows the Stern thread archetype exactly.

- Eye-catching thread title.
- Extract in quote; news story detailing single incident regarding villainies commited by US government, corporations, or both.
- "______ my ass", implicating that the single incident is in fact part of a wider phenomenon and should be taken as indicative.
- Source.

well, I admit that's a fairly accurate assessment ..however the last point is debatable as there's usually a double meaning to some of those one liners

 

[Sulkdodds]

It is true that your ass is a land of the free.

 

[CptStern]

heh no I meant that the comment is usually directed specifically to the situation at hand

 

[Glirk Dient]

Marines are ****ing crazy. They'll pretty much take anyone; to be rejected by the Marines is to be really unstable. Every other branch of the Armed Forces call them "Bullet Sponges" and "****ing crazies" because of how they are trained. You'll very rarely see other branches of our Armed Forces be on trial for this kind of shit. Remember that story last year about the Iraqi massacre/rape? Those were Marines.

You have absolutely no idea about the military do you? The Marines accept anyone? If you have ever had a major illness, broken a bone, bled a lot, have any minor defect in any way, are not in amazing health and don't get a good score on the asvab or ever had anything other than minor speeding tickets they won't take you. You are completely wrong on that part. The Marines is the hardest branch to join and none of them will just take people. The entrance for the military is very long and at the end is a day long physical checking out absolutely every part of you to make sure you are perfect.

Also the marines are far from the only branch to commit attrocities/crimes. They are simply the ones that are making a large presence. There are crazy people in every branch and you have to remember these are just kids. When you put them in these situations they don't have the same compassion and understanding as older people who have seen more than they have. They just got out of boot camp and are all gun ho and fired up. Also every branch has names they call every other branch so don't even get started on that crap. Everyone calls eachother names in the military and tying to prove a point by bringing that up is plain stupid.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Yeah but the Army blows the most.

 

[leib10]

You have absolutely no idea about the military do you? The Marines accept anyone? If you have ever had a major illness, broken a bone, bled a lot, have any minor defect in any way, are not in amazing health and don't get a good score on the asvab or ever had anything other than minor speeding tickets they won't take you. You are completely wrong on that part. The Marines is the hardest branch to join and none of them will just take people. The entrance for the military is very long and at the end is a day long physical checking out absolutely every part of you to make sure you are perfect.

Also the marines are far from the only branch to commit attrocities/crimes. They are simply the ones that are making a large presence. There are crazy people in every branch and you have to remember these are just kids. When you put them in these situations they don't have the same compassion and understanding as older people who have seen more than they have. They just got out of boot camp and are all gun ho and fired up. Also every branch has names they call every other branch so don't even get started on that crap. Everyone calls eachother names in the military and tying to prove a point by bringing that up is plain stupid.

Good post.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Yeah but the Army blows the most.

IMO the navy does. Army gets a lot of good benefits and extra pay on top of the newest tech the military can get. The navy has horrible living conditions. You are stuck on a ship for months on end and your room is about as big as your bed. Everything is incredibly tiny on a ship. Not to mention you get bad pay and your tech school is the longest out of all the branches(tech school is a little less strict than boot camp but it still sucks...a lot).

However if you join the army right now chances are you will be going to Iraq unless you can land a non combat/combat support job which you will need to pass some technical aspect of your asvab in order to get. Or if you simply get lucky and never get deployed.

 

[CptStern]

oh ehere we go again ..lets ignore the crimes committed and instead have a pissing match as to what branch of the military is better than the other ..who ****ing cares?

 

[leib10]

For once, I agree with you Stern. You don't have successful occupations when you mistreat the population. Look at history, it will prove the same thing.

 

[Glirk Dient]

oh ehere we go again ..lets ignore the crimes committed and instead have a pissing match as to what branch of the military is better than the other ..who ****ing cares?

People who have family in the military or people who plan on joining themselves. In my case it's both. I prefer to know all about what I am getting myself into. I would hope you can appreciate that.

 

[CptStern]

so you'll be prepared when your CO tells you to "crank up the violence"? debating the merits of other branches does nothing to address the casual brutality at the hands of the US military on innocent people .."crank up the violence" turns into "lets shoot this guy for fun but we'll make it look like it was justified" not harming the population isnt a big priority which is the complete opposite of what the rewritten history says is the reason you invaded iraq in the first place

 

[Glirk Dient]

so you'll be prepared when your CO tells you to "crank up the violence"? debating the merits of other branches does nothing to address the casual brutality at the hands of the US military on innocent people .."crank up the violence" turns into "lets shoot this guy for fun but we'll make it look like it was justified" not harming the population isnt a big priority which is the complete opposite of what the rewritten history says is the reason you invaded iraq in the first place

No, the stuff over there shouldn't be happening. I do not want to be a part of that therefor I am going to educate myself on the military because I do want to join. It isn't hard to pick a job that doesn't get deployed over there. My twin bro gets deployed to Guam, and never to Iraq.

 

[CptStern]

there are reservists in Iraq on their third tour of duty ..they're supposed to be weekend warriors ..there is no guarentee you wont see the front lines ..but simply participating is participating in the rape and destruction of a nation over simple greed ...you cant avoid the larger picture here and still say you're trying to educate yourself as to what really goes on

 

[Glirk Dient]

there are reservists in Iraq on their third tour of duty ..they're supposed to be weekend warriors ..there is no guarentee you wont see the front lines ..but simply participating is participating in the rape and destruction of a nation over simple greed ...you cant avoid the larger picture here and still say you're trying to educate yourself as to what really goes on

That is what reservists are for...to send to war during war. Nobody should be joining the reserves thinking it's an easy ticket out of war. My dad had a room mate during Vietnam who decided to join the navy and be a medic so he would sit on a ship the whole time and never see combat when he got drafted. Have you ever heard of a core man? Those are the navy medics stationed with the marines because marines don't have medics. My dads roommate was on the front lines the whole time.

Point is if do research with all the info out there you can figure out what you want out of the military and can get a much better picture of it. Granted you have to realize you not gonna be that lucky guy who doesn't end up getting deployed but to prepare for the worst. That is why I am going in knowing that I could get the worst out of my job selection therefor I won't chose one that gets deployed to Iraq. You can look all over the web and find out which bases this job can be deployed to and the rate at which they are being deployed and so on.

 

[DeusExMachina]

oh ehere we go again ..lets ignore the crimes committed and instead have a pissing match as to what branch of the military is better than the other ..who ****ing cares?

well I mean we could start a religious debate, if that's more what you're into.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

during desert storm, 1991 the coalition bombed water treatment/sanitation plants in Iraq that directly led to the deaths of a million iraqis over a 12 year period ..mostly from illnesses brought upon by poor drinking water/deplorable sanitation conditions, over 500,000 children under the age of 5 died because it ....so in that respect air campaigns can have a much greater effect on a populace than ground warefare ..at least in this day and age of limited ground campaigns

This is while, of course, Saddam Hussein spends hundreds of millions on palaces lined with Gold or Silver, weapons plated with the precious materials, and entire caches of reserve wealth purchased through Lebanon. More then four tons of gold were confiscated when the Baathist Regime fell.

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200706/r152627_546265.jpg
http://www.anvari.org/db/cols/Saddam_Hussein_Golds/Saddam_Gold_5.jpg
http://www.weaponsblog.org/images/saddam_golden_ak-47_2.jpg
http://media.buzzhumor.com/7/SA_image_060427_5m86b530.jpg

http://www.afcee.brooks.af.mil/MS/MSP/CENTER/vol10No2/5.asp
http://www.menavista.com/images/Saddam Palace 0703.jpg
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/0AE52F48-90B3-4488-88BB-8847141493F3/0/sadaamspalace.jpg
http://www.royalmarinesbands.co.uk/argus_diary/CLR/Images/palace.jpg


http://www.anvari.org/db/cols/Saddam_Hussein_Golds/Saddam_Gold_3.jpg
http://www.anvari.org/db/cols/Saddam_Hussein_Golds/Saddam_Gold_2.jpg


So, what is four tons of all this worth?

http://www.gold.org/value/

16 oz. per pound x 8,000 pounds x $608.70 =
$77,913,600.00
x 1,380 Iraqi Dinars =
107,520,768,000
or 107.5 billion dinars

Now, one treatment plant is nowhere near worth 107.5 billion dinars, so Saddam Hussein had the capability to rebuild them and rapidly. Yet he did not. Reason being? Sanctions? Hardly. This was stashed inbetween 1987 and 2002 -- making it through sanctions.

So, anyone care to explain why treatment facilities were not rebuilt?

 

[Lt. Drebin]

oh ehere we go again ..lets ignore the crimes committed and instead have a pissing match as to what branch of the military is better than the other ..who ****ing cares?

Hillarious. Too true. Saw it coming from the first post.

On topic. Pretty disgusting. Kind of wonder who won't stand trial for this and won't go to prison.

 

[Sulkdodds]

So, anyone care to explain why treatment facilities were not rebuilt?

Because Saddamn was a madman and/or simply a bastard. That seems simple enough.

So, anyone care to explain how this removes any culpability from Coalition forces?

I suppose if I stab a man, and then he refuses medical treatment so he can watch TV, you ask why he would have done that.

 

[CptStern]

This is while, of course, Saddam Hussein spends hundreds of millions on palaces lined with Gold or Silver, weapons plated with the precious materials, and entire caches of reserve wealth purchased through Lebanon. More then four tons of gold were confiscated when the Baathist Regime fell.

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200706/r152627_546265.jpg
http://www.anvari.org/db/cols/Saddam_Hussein_Golds/Saddam_Gold_5.jpg
http://www.weaponsblog.org/images/saddam_golden_ak-47_2.jpg
http://media.buzzhumor.com/7/SA_image_060427_5m86b530.jpg

http://www.afcee.brooks.af.mil/MS/MSP/CENTER/vol10No2/5.asp
http://www.menavista.com/images/Saddam Palace 0703.jpg
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/0AE52F48-90B3-4488-88BB-8847141493F3/0/sadaamspalace.jpg
http://www.royalmarinesbands.co.uk/argus_diary/CLR/Images/palace.jpg


http://www.anvari.org/db/cols/Saddam_Hussein_Golds/Saddam_Gold_3.jpg
http://www.anvari.org/db/cols/Saddam_Hussein_Golds/Saddam_Gold_2.jpg


So, what is four tons of all this worth?

http://www.gold.org/value/

16 oz. per pound x 8,000 pounds x $608.70 =
$77,913,600.00
x 1,380 Iraqi Dinars =
107,520,768,000
or 107.5 billion dinars

Now, one treatment plant is nowhere near worth 107.5 billion dinars, so Saddam Hussein had the capability to rebuild them and rapidly. Yet he did not. Reason being? Sanctions? Hardly. This was stashed inbetween 1987 and 2002 -- making it through sanctions.

saddam was a murderous bastard, what's your (the US) excuse? the US purposefully targeted children and civilians because they were hoping that horrible conditions would lead to a mass uprising ..again what is your excuse?

So, anyone care to explain why treatment facilities were not rebuilt?

during the sanctions? ...ok:

"The prime killer of children under five years of age--diarrheal diseases--has reached epidemic proportions, and they now strike four times more often than they did in 1990. . . . Holds on contracts for the water and sanitation sector are a prime reason for the increases in sickness and death. Of the eighteen contracts, all but one hold was placed by the U.S. government. The contracts are for purification chemicals, chlorinators, chemical dosing pumps, water tankers, and other equipment. . . . I urge you to weigh your decision against the disease and death that are the unavoidable result of not having safe drinking water and minimum levels of sanitation." - US Congressman Tony Hall

 

[No Limit]

You have absolutely no idea about the military do you? The Marines accept anyone? If you have ever had a major illness, broken a bone, bled a lot, have any minor defect in any way, are not in amazing health and don't get a good score on the asvab or ever had anything other than minor speeding tickets they won't take you. You are completely wrong on that part. The Marines is the hardest branch to join and none of them will just take people. The entrance for the military is very long and at the end is a day long physical checking out absolutely every part of you to make sure you are perfect.

Although most of the above is true the part in bold isn't. They can still accept you even if you committed up to I think 5 serious offenses as long as those offenses were not felonies. This can include assult and other violent crimes, even crimes that you were charged with a felony but your lawyer was able to bring it down to a misdemeanor. If you had a felony you can still join but you have to get a waiver approved before you do.

So not all Marine recruits are squeaky clean.

 

[clarky003]

I heard there were more military personnel and operations from the US and other countries working for private contractors when compared to the personnel in the US marines.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

So, anyone care to explain how this removes any culpability from Coalition forces?

I suppose if I stab a man, and then he refuses medical treatment so he can watch TV, you ask why he would have done that.

It would'nt remove any culpability certainly. I'm just wasn't sure people were aware ...

I seriously lol'd at your example however. In a good way, Sulk.

Holds on contracts for the water and sanitation sector are a prime reason for the increases in sickness and death. Of the eighteen contracts, all but one hold was placed by the U.S. government.

I don't really see external contracts as something Saddam relied on, however, what the heck was the US Government thinking?

 

[CptStern]

It would'nt remove any culpability certainly. I'm just wasn't sure people were aware ...

I seriously lol'd at your example however. In a good way, Sulk.



I don't really see external contracts as something Saddam relied on, however, what the heck was the US Government thinking?

ya well what you dont know could move mountains ...and yes saddam relied on "external contracts" ...here read this, it's a pre-war (1991) assessment of Iraq's water/sewage treatment facilities ..it clearly shows the US purposefully targeted water supply/santitation plants in the hopes that the Iraqi people would suffer to the point that they'd stage an uprising:

Iraq depends on importing specialized equipment and some chemicals to purify its water supply, most of which is heavily mineralized and frequently brackish to saline.. With no domestic sources of both water treatment replacement parts and some essential chemicals, Iraq will continue attempts to circumvent United Nations Sanctions to import these vital commodities. Failing to secure supplies will result in a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population. This could lead to increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease

they even did a follow up assessment of how the iraqi population would be affected:

SUMMARY: Food- and waterborne diseases have the greatest
potential for outbreaks in the civilian and military
population over the next 30 to 60 days.

Increased incidence of diseases will be attributable to
degradation of normal preventive medicine, waste disposal,
water purification/distribution, electricity, and decreased
ability to control disease outbreaks. Any urban are in Iraq
that has received infrastructure damage will have
similar problems.

MOST LIKELY DISEASES DURING THE NEXT 60-90 DAYS (DESCENDING
ORDER)

- Diarrheal diseases (particularly children)
- Acute respiratory illnesses (colds and influenza)
- Typhoid
- Hepatitis A (particularly children)
- Measles, diphtheria, and pertussis (particularly children)
- Meningitis, including meningococcal (particularly children)
- Cholera (possible, but less likely)



MOST LIKELY DISEASES DURING THE FOLLOWING 90-180 DAYS

- Diarrheal diseases (particularly children)
- Acute respiratory illnesses (colds)
- Typhoid
- Hepatitis A (particularly children)
- Conjunctivitis (Eye infections)
- Measles, diphtheria, and pertussis (particularly children)
- Cutaneous leishmaniasis
- Meningococcal meningitis (particularly children)
- Malaria
- Cholera (possible, but less likely)


|SUBJECT: Effects of Bombing on Disease Occurrence in Baghdad

3. VECTORBORNE DISEASES: Generally, vectorborne diseases are
more of a long term problem, with increased transmission occurring after 60 days. However, increased incidence can be expected, especially
in a prolonged military campaign.

a. Louse-borne typhus Rickettsia prowazekii. Associated with
poor hygiene and overcrowding, especially in winter months.

b. Leishmaniasis
Primarily cutaneous form due to Leishmania
tropica. Focal increase associated with debris accumulation.

c. Malaria
Currently no indigenous transmission and
considered a low risk. Potential vectors are present.

4. More detailed explanations on conditions affecting
expected disease occurrence are available. Extrapolation of
this analysis should only be done after further consultation
with AFMIC analysts.

and the most damning evidence of cold hearted deliberate indifference to the loss of Iraq life, the second assessment reported this:

...assessment is that major disease outbreaks
currently have not occurred in Baghdad or Basrah. For severe
outbreaks to develop, a protracted war or more extensive
collateral damage would have to occur.

However, conditions are favorable for communicable disease
outbreaks, particularly in major urban areas affected by
coalition bombing. Data necessary for determining expected
numbers and rates of cases are not available, and any estimate
would be totally unreliable.

so the next you or anyone else wants to throw the fact that saddam was a butcher and the invasion was justified because of it, I'll be there to remind you that far greater injustices have been perpetrated by your(the US)hand

oh and I'll leave you with this:

Leslie Stahl (60 Minutes): "We have heard that a half million children have died (as a result of sanctions against Iraq). I mean, that is more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?"

Madeleine Albright: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price, we think the price is worth it."

 

[Kula Meenur]

Holy shit. This spells death with capitals. ****ING CAPITALS!