US using experimental weapons in Iraq?

CptStern

CptStern

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informationclearinghouse said:
According to official Pentagon sources, military vehicles equipped with this laser device have been used in Afghanistan to explode mines. According to two reliable military information sites – Defense Tech and Defence Industry Daily - at least three such vehicles are being used in Iraq as well and some people report having seen them.
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from an Italian documentary interviewing several eye witnessess (shown here)


Saad al Falluji said:
They were 26 in the bus. About 20 of them had no head, the head had been cut, some of them had no arms or no legs. The only unwounded was the driver and really I don’t know how he reach our hospital, because one arm was on his side, one head just beside him. It was a very strange and horrible situation. In the roof of the car there were parts of the body: intestines, brains, all parts of the body. It was a very very very miserable situation.
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http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13129.htm
 
I very much doubt it.

Current (but still mostly theorhetical) lasers of the size and range needed to do that sort of stuff fill half a jumbo jet.

Lasers simply don't work terribly well over long ranges.
 
ZEUS sounds like it might come in very handy in Iraq, though not for the purposes being implied here....

EDIT: Also...

According to Bloomberg News, "Raytheon's new weapon, which is intended to repel hostile forces by creating a sensation of intense heat on skin, doesn't act quickly enough to be effective, said U.S. Marine Corps Col. Wade Hall, who directs the program that would test the device."

The device is scheduled to be installed on three Stryker transports headed to Iraq next year as part of a test of a range of new technologies [including sonic blasters and laser dazzlers]. If the problem isn't fixed, the Pentagon will have to decide in the next few months whether to include it...
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Source.
 
The pain weapons seems a good choice, as far as I can tell it's more freindly to children and women thne teargas and such since it mostly stimulates the pain receptors by ray not by actually buring the people and giving them permanent scars. It could very well be used for torture since it doesn't leave marks, but there are many other ways to torture without leaving marks.

Whats most disturbing in that vide os not the use of lasers, since newer and more horrible weapons are beeing developed, but that the US allegedly slaughterd a bus full of cevilians, is there a video with more then one perspectieve since just going on the info of one side is not realible.
 
Majid Al Ghezali said:
There wasn’t any bullet. I saw their teeth, just the teeth, and they had no eyes, all of them, there was nothing on their bodies.
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Wow. I would really like to know what type of weapon this could be. I don't really think it has anything to do with lasers, but at the same time I have no clue what it could be.
 
Gray Fox said:
The pain weapons seems a good choice, as far as I can tell it's more freindly to children and women thne teargas and such since it mostly stimulates the pain receptors by ray not by actually buring the people and giving them permanent scars. It could very well be used for torture since it doesn't leave marks, but there are many other ways to torture without leaving marks.

Whats most disturbing in that vide os not the use of lasers, since newer and more horrible weapons are beeing developed, but that the US allegedly slaughterd a bus full of cevilians, is there a video with more then one perspectieve since just going on the info of one side is not realible.
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you mean the microwave gun?

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18725095.600


there's always the possiblity of the weapon not being used as intended
 
CptStern said:
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001437.html

welcome back from your vacation Mecha, you've missed a lot of interesting debates since you've been gone :)
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Interesting debates such as:
"Israel sucks for invading Lebanon!!!
- No they don't, Hezbollah sucks for shooting rockets at Israel!!!
Israel sucks for invading Lebanon!!!
- No they don't, Hezbollah sucks for shooting rockets at Israel!!!
Israel sucks for invading Lebanon!!!
- No they don't, Hezbollah sucks for shooting rockets at Israel!!!
Israel sucks for invading Lebanon!!!
- No they don't, Hezbollah sucks for shooting rockets at Israel!!!
Israel sucks for invading Lebanon!!!"

Yeah...
 
you need to get out more (out of politics that is) ..that hasnt been the only topic of conversation in the past few weeks
 
CptStern said:
you mean the microwave gun?

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18725095.600


there's always the possiblity of the weapon not being used as intended
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Yeah, but it has already been stated that it takes too long to deploy and get up and running for any real situations in Iraq. I doubt the veracity of all of these reports in this documentary frankly. Propaganda is perhaps more dangerous than any of these new weapons?
 
sure it's a possibility but the people interviewed are doctors ..one of them isnt even iraqi ..he has no reason to lie

and yes the weapon is deployable ..they're even looking into a handheld version:

New Scientist said:
The US marines and police are both working on portable versions, and the US air force is building a system for controlling riots from the air.
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CptStern said:
and yes the weapon is deployable ..they're even looking into a handheld version:
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Yes, we all "know" its deployable, but it takes too long to get it ready to fire to make it really useful in a riotous crowd environment right now. A handheld version makes sense, but there's going to have to be a lot of work done to make sure it can be used effectively in whatever situations it is meant for--right now the thing is huge, just like all of the other ray weapons people are all excited about right now!
 
I meant it's deployable in the sense that 4 vehicles have already been outfitted with the microwave guns ..and were supposed to be deployed this summer

The Pentagon is expected to select an industry contractor to integrate lethal and nonlethal Project Sheriff capabilities on the project's Spiral 1 vehicles that will be deployed next summer, program officials said here last week.
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http://www.oft.osd.mil

14 more were ordered

http://www.oft.osd.mil/library/library_files/article_454_Inside the Army on Sheriff.pdf
 
CptStern said:
I meant it's deployable in the sense that 4 vehicles have already been outfitted with the microwave guns ..and were supposed to be deployed this summer



http://www.oft.osd.mil

14 more were ordered

http://www.oft.osd.mil/library/library_files/article_454_Inside the Army on Sheriff.pdf
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Yes, yes, but there is this to consider too:
Pain Ray Too Slow for Iraq?

For quite a while, now, we've heard promises that a microwave-like pain ray, the Active Denial System, was on its way to Iraq. But, so far, no Iraqis have been zapped. What gives?

According to Bloomberg News, "Raytheon's new weapon, which is intended to repel hostile forces by creating a sensation of intense heat on skin, doesn't act quickly enough to be effective, said U.S. Marine Corps Col. Wade Hall, who directs the program that would test the device."

The device is scheduled to be installed on three Stryker transports headed to Iraq next year as part of a test of a range of new technologies [including sonic blasters and laser dazzlers]. If the problem isn't fixed, the Pentagon will have to decide in the next few months whether to include it...

"The primary quality I'm concerned with is timeliness," Hall said. "We need to get these capabilities to the war fighter as quickly and safely as possible. I set some pretty hard timelines. I don't let things drag out for many months."
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Source.
 
the articles seem to be dated from the same time period as my own ..so who knows if they've actually deployed them to iraq ..but this seems to confirm that they at least ordered them:

Military.com said:
The head of the Rapid Equipping Force has requested that a non-lethal, counter-personnel directed-energy weapon be rushed to the field to support military operations in Iraq.

In a memorandum to the deputy undersecretary of defense for advanced system and concepts, Army Col. Robert Lovett, the project manager for the Rapid Equipping Force, requested that activities related to the Active Denial System 1 advanced concept technology demonstration be suspended and redirected to support immediate deployment of the technology to Iraq.
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http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,83376,00.html
 
It would make sense of them using experimental weaponry. Happens in every conflict. Better ways to neutralize the enemy.
 
Man, I hope they outfit a mini-version of the microwave gun on a pair of glasses so I can have LASER EYES.

"Don't you give me that look young ma... AAAAAAAAH IT BURNS D:"
 
DeusExMachina said:
It would make sense of them using experimental weaponry. Happens in every conflict. Better ways to neutralize the enemy.
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Exactly. What's a better way to test a weapon built for war then actually using it in a war?
 
I wonder how long it'll take before this kind of stuff trickles down to the police back home? I'd imagine that there'd be quite a market all around the world for such new ways to, um, deal with...rioters.
 
It sounds dangerous though. Even though safer than a bullet, imagine using this on guys with heart problems or whatever.
Whats wrong with the good ol Police methods :p
 
well there were some low level tests on volunteers:

New Scientist said:
VOLUNTEERS taking part in tests of the Pentagon's "less-lethal" microwave weapon were banned from wearing glasses or contact lenses due to safety fears.....

Two experiments tested pain tolerance levels, while in a third, a "limited military utility assessment", volunteers played the part of rioters or intruders and the ADS was used to drive them away.

The experimenters banned glasses and contact lenses to prevent possible eye damage to the subjects, and in the second and third tests removed any metallic objects such as coins and keys to stop hot spots being created on the skin. They also checked the volunteers' clothes for certain seams, buttons and zips which might also cause hot spots.

The ADS weapon's beam causes pain within 2 to 3 seconds and it becomes intolerable after less than 5 seconds. People's reflex responses to the pain is expected to force them to move out of the beam before their skin can be burnt.

But Neil Davison, co-ordinator of the non-lethal weapons research project at the University of Bradford in the UK, says controlling the amount of radiation received may not be that simple. "How do you ensure that the dose doesn't cross the threshold for permanent damage?" he asks. "What happens if someone in a crowd is unable, for whatever reason, to move away from the beam? Does the weapon cut out to prevent overexposure?"

During the experiments, people playing rioters put up their hands when hit and were given a 15-second cooling-down period before being targeted again. One person suffered a burn in a previous test when the beam was accidentally used on the wrong power setting.
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wont be possible to take these things into consideration in the middle of a riot ..I can see fatalities or severe injuries occuring


http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18725095.600
 
I’d love to see a gallery of the people who would volunteer for that sort of thing.
 
Seems like the microwave weapons might be too deadly for non-lethal purposes and too non-deadly for combat.

Also I'm interested in these lasers. The general concensus always seems to be that lasers would suck as conventional weapons. So this is very interesting to me.
 
Cut arm, leg, head in the bus?

Manhack!!!!

pageenemymanhackby7.jpg
 
The US has always tested weapons in every war it's been in. Others have done so too.
 
CptStern said:
wont be possible to take these things into consideration in the middle of a riot ..I can see fatalities or severe injuries occuring
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Yeah, they have had the same problem with rubber bullets, bean bags, tear gas, etc, of course too...but no, that doesn't make it right I know. Like so many things, its potentially great in theory, potentially horrible in practice.
 
notice the wounds were made as if the person was running away ..democracy ftw
 
CptStern said:
notice the wounds were made as if the person was running away ..democracy ftw
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Yeah, those guys need to go back to Protesting School. Running from the cops? Come on you pansies! You say you want a revolution....
 
lol I think they just want the war to end not overthrow the government
 
Last I heard was that lasers in military situations were more something capable of blinding the enemy from distance (and probably banned for that purpose under a bunch of conventions), but not anything that could go around servering limbs and heads sci-fi style.

A laser that could heat up mines and make them pop makes sense, however, and seems feasible.
 
I thought the same. I know they have stated they have energy weapons that can irritate for crowd dispersal, but they have never confirmed high energy lasers. Even though the last thing we heard about these kindof lasers is that effective ones take up large spaces, particularly particle weapons.

Alot of time has passed since the start of the star wars project.. so who knows, but it wouldn't be that unlikely with the US military budget that they have managed to develop more compact versions for testing on the battlefield.
 
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