Valve owes you NOTHING

[CptTrips]

I just read the "farewell rant" about Valve and Half Life 2 by Fragmaster, and I've noticed a lot of people here feel the same. I'm curious as to where you get the right to criticize a company that owes you nothing just because they "lied" about when their game was coming out? They are not making this game for the fans, or for "all the gaming enthusists out there," they are making the game to make money. Period. If that means lying, delaying, etc, then they have every right and more so to do that. They don't owe us, the "fans," anything. It's fine to be annoyed and disapointed and such, but to go so far as to say "I am not a fan of Valve anymore. I don't believe a damn thing they say and I'm sick of their bullshit."... Well, that's quite possible the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Again, they owe you NOTHING. You can't say "well i paid $50 when Halflife came out so they should give me the info i want." No. Giving you Halflife was the trade; you didn't automatically get the right to any future games or even information about anything. Hell, for that matter, they didn't HAVE to ever update HL, they did it at their own expense. You paid for HL, not the udates, they GAVE those to you. And yet here you are, whining that they "lied" to you about a release date on THEIR game (not YOURS). Come on.

As for Steam downloading caches and such, and about lag, THEY didn't install Steam on your comp. YOU DID. You accepted the end-user license agreement, and if you read it, you'd learn they said they could do things like that. Even if they DIDN'T have it in there, they could do it anyways because you VOLUNATRILY installed it in the first place!! If you don't like it, don't complain, UNINSTALL. Complaining is unnecessary.

I think they know damn well what they're doing and when they finish this game, they will be making a LOT of money, which again, is their primary objective. To hold them to some "higher" standard is wrong, they associate with fans because they think it will make them more money by guarenteeing customers, not because "they're such nice people."

People rant about how they "lied and deceived" you. OK. So they did. SO WHAT? THEY OWED YOU NOTHING! Oh, so you supported their game? You played it? You post crap at websites dedicated to it? So all that somehow entitles you to "the truth?" I think not. Valve is 100% in the right for what they're doing/what they've done, and to criticize them is not only childish and immature, it makes you a looter and a moocher, wanthing things you are not entitled to.

 

[Varsity]

They are, however, required to follow the law. Deliberate misinformation in the buisiness world is an illegal act, and whether or not they owe us anything a slap in the face.

 

[Gordon'sFreeman]

Ok Great. and you think anyone is going to care?
They will keep ranting until its released. all you can say to them is to move on. :\

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Oh god..not the "valve owe us nothing" brigade again...

Shooo go away!

 

[CyberSh33p]

Well, first of all, they may not owe us anything, but they should take responsibility when they goof up. the release date was a goof up, and they definitely did a poor job handling htat. However, a lot of people blow this way out of proportion and start hating valve. I'd say it stems from them being totally in love with hl2 so when they hear it got delayed they felt angry and regressed to 11 year old with a big mouth form.

Steam never installed anything without ones consent, the cz preload could always be stopped, and I did just that. people are just ignorant.

Valve owes us nothing, but being a software company, we expect them to get us an awesome game, and we feel they owe us that after showing it at e3 like that. some people just go overboard.

 

[Spiffae]

Here we go again.

I don't think valve "owes" me anything. I just trusted valve to tell the truth, and now i do a little less. that's all.

 

[Varsity]

Steam never installed anything without ones consent, the cz preload could always be stopped, and I did just that. people are just ignorant.

That was a (system-dependant) bug anyway.

 

[Sprafa]

As Varsity said, false propaganda is a crime.

But I don't blame'em, they just lost all their fans now

 

[CyberSh33p]

That was a (system-dependant) bug anyway.

oh really? I guess it affects win2k then either way, no harm done, just have to be aware of your surroundings.

edit: and they only lost the ones that are going to buy hl2 and rave about it when it comes out anyway.

 

[CptTrips]

Here we go again.
I just trusted valve to tell the truth, and now i do a little less. that's all.

It's important if your GOVERNMENT tells the truth, not a VIDEO GAME company. People act is if they've been raped, rather then deprived of a form of entertainment and it reflects in their mindless posts and arguments.
Example:

Oh god..not the "valve owe us nothing" brigade again...

Shooo go away!

You see? He has done nothing to defend his point of view, and really didn't even refute mine. Just stated his useless opinion without any argument to back himself up with. "shoo go away" does not count as an argument.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Are you the CaptainTrips I know from trickery?

Anyway, thats the point I've been trying to make. We choose to do all this :E

 

[CptTrips]

They are, however, required to follow the law. Deliberate misinformation in the buisiness world is an illegal act, and whether or not they owe us anything a slap in the face.

They stated before the release date that it had been pushed back. Therefore, they're legal.

 

[CyberSh33p]

You see? He has done nothing to defend his point of view, and really didn't even refute mine. Just stated his useless opinion without any argument to back himself up with. "shoo go away" does not count as an argument.

I think that was more of a "man this has been done like a bajillion times before" kind of post. If I had a nickle for everyone who said valve owes me nothing... well, I'd have like a few bucks.

 

[Rupertvdb]

they owe me a fiver!

 

[jet jaguar]

Any company that follows your 'vision' will have very few customers. Valve would be foolish to think they don't have to work to keep their customer base. Just ask John Romero. So 'no', Valve owes us nothing, but that's an assinine attitude to have if you're running a business.

 

[CptTrips]

Any company that follows your 'vision' will have very few customers. Valve would be foolish to think they don't have to work to keep their customer base. Just ask John Romero. So 'no', Valve owes us nothing, but that's an assinine attitude to have if you're running a business.

Think about it. If they were to come out and say "If you play computer games you are a homosexual" and released HalfLife2 the next day/week/month, the sales will NOT be effected. It's the content of the game that drives sales, not projected release dates and such.

 

[Rupertvdb]

i think it got a bit out of hand, i thought his main point was the fact that people are bitching way too much when Valve delays, rather than being philosophical and getting on with it they see it as a sign of personal disrespect which frankly makes **** all sense and is the kind of claptrap bullshit i would expect from toddlers, shit happens, get on with it.

When he says Valve owe us nohting blah blah he is being ignorant, they owe us one game please, that's what they said they would produce, they set release dates which aren't just some ****ed up guess they are spposed to deliver at said date and they failed to. They claim to be a part of the community etc (which they definitely are, i have been replied to from Gabe personally) and have used the company to gain hype for their product.

There needs to be some middle ground, give us the game when it's ready and it was dumb to try ****ing us around but at the same time what kind of ignorant cocksucker takes it so personally, feel disappointed then get some perspective.

 

[RblDiver]

Sheesh, some people. Look, if you really think that Valve owes you anything (which, as has been said, they don't), or you really need HL2 stuff, or yada yada etc etc, A) wait for E3, it's less than 3 weeks away and will have a bunch of info, and B) You could always try emailing Valve and see if you can score a free HL2 poster. Gordon and Alyx watch over my computer lol

 

[CptTrips]

they owe us one game please, that's what they said they would produce, they set release dates which aren't just some ****ed up guess they are spposed to deliver at said date and they failed to.

Wrong. They owe you NOTHING. Words are not actions. If I were to say I owe you a swift kick in the ass, it does NOT mean you are going to be getting one, no matter how much you deserve it!

it was dumb to try ****ing us around

You imply they were purposely jerking you around. Do you think they gave 9/30 as the release date with the purposeful intention to push it back just days before? I seriously doubt it. Even if they did, look at all the hype they've acheived for their game. The delay will probably boost their sales by plenty. If you still cling to the argument of "well they should've told us" NO THEY SHOULDN'T! They can do whatever they want! If they delay their game to create more hype/excitement then THEY HAVE THAT RIGHT. You are trying to take that right from them by implying you have a right which you DON'T! Have you read the book Atlas Shrugged? I doubt it, but if you did, you'd know the full meaning of the word I'm about to call you: a LOOTER.

 

[CyberSh33p]

i think it got a bit out of hand, i thought his main point was the fact that people are bitching way too much when Valve delays, rather than being philosophical and getting on with it they see it as a sign of personal disrespect which frankly makes **** all sense and is the kind of claptrap bullshit i would expect from toddlers, shit happens, get on with it.

When he says Valve owe us nohting blah blah he is being ignorant, they owe us one game please, that's what they said they would produce, they set release dates which aren't just some ****ed up guess they are spposed to deliver at said date and they failed to. They claim to be a part of the community etc (which they definitely are, i have been replied to from Gabe personally) and have used the company to gain hype for their product.

There needs to be some middle ground, give us the game when it's ready and it was dumb to try ****ing us around but at the same time what kind of ignorant cocksucker takes it so personally, feel disappointed then get some perspective.

You make good sense, though you could have eased up on some of the language there at the end ;P

What I am amazed at is how people reacted to the delay. Practically every game I've played has been delayed from its original date. Game companies should just quit doing release dates, because they never work. it skind of funny. but man oh man the reaction from some of the less intelligent HL2 'fans'. I think early october was about when I chiefly quit visitng HL2 Discussion forums and hid away in OT

hopefully this summer will be the ticket though

 

[RblDiver]

You imply they were purposely jerking you around. Do you think they gave 9/30 as the release date with the purposeful intention to push it back just days before? I seriously doubt it.

Indeed. It would be economical insanity to delay the game just for the hell of it. Let's see, let's put the Valve staff at 40 people making an average of $70k/year (which is a good estimate for programmer pay), so that's about $6000/month (yes it's really less, but I'm using nice round figures here). So each month for the delay, they lose about $240,000 in employee wages, just to add on maintainance/utilities/rent I'll tack on $20k (no idea whether that's high or low but I'd sort of suspect low), so each month they're losing $260,000, so for the 7 months it has been, that's $1.82 million dollars (at least, the number is likely much higher) that they have had to use. Would they really just delay the game and put out their own source code for kicks and giggles with this type of money on the line? I sure as hell wouldn't.

 

[Styloid]

Sept 30 was probably like when you tell your friend you'll return his CD tomorrow... and then you forget (maybe because you misplaced it). I don't know about you guys but I'd never end a friendship (or any kind of relationship) because of something like that (even if they did it twice).

 

[ComradeBadger]

Sept 30 was probably like when you tell your friend you'll return his CD tomorrow... and then you forget (maybe because you misplaced it). I don't know about you guys but I'd never end a friendship (or any kind of relationship) because of something like that (even if they did it twice).

Yep.

Hannah still owes me Franz Ferdinand! :hmph:

 

[Darkside55]

Valve owes me tree fiddy!

($3.50)

[/not contributing to this thread in any way]

 

[CptTrips]

Indeed. It would be economical insanity to delay the game just for the hell of it. Let's see, let's put the Valve staff at 40 people making an average of $70k/year (which is a good estimate for programmer pay), so that's about $6000/month (yes it's really less, but I'm using nice round figures here). So each month for the delay, they lose about $240,000 in employee wages, just to add on maintainance/utilities/rent I'll tack on $20k (no idea whether that's high or low but I'd sort of suspect low), so each month they're losing $260,000, so for the 7 months it has been, that's $1.82 million dollars (at least, the number is likely much higher) that they have had to use. Would they really just delay the game and put out their own source code for kicks and giggles with this type of money on the line? I sure as hell wouldn't.

Those costs are covered by Valve's parent companie(s), and since they delayed the game, I seriously doubt costs are an issue for them.

 

[CyberSh33p]

Those costs are covered by Valve's parent companie(s), and since they delayed the game, I seriously doubt costs are an issue for them.

do you wear a tin foil hat, by any chance? no one delays a game for fun, they delayed it so it would be more fun. I don't think VU wants to give valve a bunch of money for no reason either.

 

[Rupertvdb]

Wrong. They owe you NOTHING. Words are not actions. If I were to say I owe you a swift kick in the ass, it does NOT mean you are going to be getting one, no matter how much you deserve it!

Dude obvisouly you did not read my post very well, i made a balanced arguement based on both sides of the debate i didn't go on a fanboy rave, so when you say They owe you NOTHING, you are incorrect, your use of language would be a slang term, a pun, it wasn't a company setting a date for the release of something. In a totally drastic point that seems the only way to communicate with you...if a doctor says they are going do surgery on you and then come that day they say...HEY ****it Guys, I never was going to do it all along! then you would have a right to be pissed, he only used words yet he was making a kind of gaurentee.

Nte i don't hold with that logic in such a drastic fashion but raise your intellect and i'll work on something more balanced. The crux of the matter is that when people say thinds you expect them to be true to their word, it's a common courtesy, hence they did owe us something. It is the over excited reaction to disappointment that crosses the line.

You imply they were purposely jerking you around. Do you think they gave 9/30 as the release date with the purposeful intention to push it back just days before? I seriously doubt it. Even if they did, look at all the hype they've acheived for their game. The delay will probably boost their sales by plenty. If you still cling to the argument of "well they should've told us" NO THEY SHOULDN'T! They can do whatever they want! If they delay their game to create more hype/excitement then THEY HAVE THAT RIGHT. You are trying to take that right from them by implying you have a right which you DON'T! Have you read the book Atlas Shrugged? I doubt it, but if you did, you'd know the full meaning of the word I'm about to call you: a LOOTER.

No i seriously do not think they wanted to push the date back, i agree it makes no financial sense, show me where i said otherwise and i will take it back because it isn't a smart thing to do. Clearly you are a republican because this whole concept you have of companies being able to spout lies without criticism certainly would encurage a free market free of corruption and lies....oh wait.

I am an Englsh student so i have read a lot, i am suprised you rate me as unintelligent purely because i disagree with you, i shall look out for it. You have called me something that only you understand by your own admission...why the hell even bother? anyhoo, if we are getting on a what books have you read debate then feel free to PM me i am fairly sure i have made a respectable start in the world of literature i do not need to publically defend that.

I am digressing, soz to all for my gutteral language i get all ineloquent when i'm pent up or just trying to be funny...

PS On Topic for one sec, another point that occurs is the fact that the people at Valve owe their new huge incomes to people like us, they may not owe us much but some Thanks (whcih i am sure they have done or would willingly do) wouldn't hurt, everyone always owes something.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Can the flames guys, or the thread will be closed.

 

[Rupertvdb]

Originally Posted by CptTrips
Those costs are covered by Valve's parent companie(s), and since they delayed the game, I seriously doubt costs are an issue for them.

Didn't you have a huge go at me for supposedly claiming that costs wouldn't be an issue for them? Round and round me go...:imu:


EDIT: sorry for flames if there are any i tried to keep it happy.

 

[A.I.]

VALVe doesn't owe us anything, that's for sure. But lot of people have this kind of feeling that VALVe owes us. Why? I think because of all that personal contact with the public and responding to tons of e-mails, we got a kind of feeling that the company is really a part of the community and equal to us. Wrong. They are developers, we are the consumers. They delay, we wait. You'll be kissin' their asses when the game is "unleashed" anyway

 

[mad max]

correction

People were pissed because the game delayed. That makes them tend to criticize Valve, screaming "they lied to us," "they betrayed us", eventhough sept 30 was just targeted release date, which not always reliable (not like the date after the gone gold, which means the game will be in the stores very soon). Anything could happens before "gone gold," like new bugs, or during year end meeting or during final evaluation the developer think the game is not good/polish enough, so the delay. But still people already expecting the game so much because HL2 is cool game, they went crazy; and when they heard about delay, or rumor of new delay, or content been cut, or the rant form Fragmaster - everything easily on fire & exploded....

 

[Neutrino]

You do realize, CptTrips, that this is about, oh, the 25th time this argument has taken place? Your not exactly covering new ground here.

 

[Comreak]

What does Valve not oweing us anything have to do with our right to discuss their follies? If people want to moan and groan about release dates, let them (forum mods permitting).

 

[Rupertvdb]

but he didn answer my post

 

[Varsity]

They stated before the release date that it had been pushed back. Therefore, they're legal.

Valve knew for months that they wouldn't hit the release date, and told people under NDAs that. When they said the date was being pushed back is irrelavant, they knew very well for a long time before that. It's also very much worth pointing out that even if they did act lawfully (which they didn't) they unquestionably acted immoraly, which is far more important. Isn't it?

 

[ferd]

the threadposter is right, but so are ppl who complain

 

[el Chi]

Yep.

Hannah still owes me Franz Ferdinand! :hmph:

Pfft! Franz Ferdinand! :hmph:
<Secretly goes to listen to Franz Ferdinand>

On topic though I'm going to jump on the "Valve owes you nothing" band-wagon. Mainly because it's true. Whilst I don't agree with some of the points made (I fail to see why, because people have installed Steam, it is their own fault - it's Valve's program and whilst they're doing their best to iron out the creases, I can understand why people find it annoying), the general jist is good: These people can bitch and moan all they want but almost withoutfail it's stupid, incoherent and irritating.
Valve have screwed up in terms of handling the delay, but such is life, and it's in the past now. We may never know why they weren't forthcoming, but they wouldn't have done it without good reason. The way some people talk, it's as if Valve are sittig in their offices, doing no work and just laughing and joking about how much they hate the community, whilst purposefully going out of their way to annoy fans.
Forget it, I'm not going to carry one because: a) it will do no good; b) I'll probably just be regurgitating what everyone else on this jostling band-wagon's already said. Which is exactly the same as what the moaners are doing, but they have more kerrazy conspircay theories (for "kerrazy" read: unfounded, nonsensical and incoherent)

 

[ferd]

Valve knew for months that they wouldn't hit the release date, and told people under NDAs that. When they said the date was being pushed back is irrelavant, they knew very well for a long time before that. It's also very much worth pointing out that even if they did act lawfully (which they didn't) they unquestionably acted immoraly, which is far more important. Isn't it?

I dont thing you could actually sue them for that :|

 

[Rupertvdb]

death to this thread, death to this thread

 

[Varsity]

I dont thing you could actually sue them for that :|

Methinks that is besides the point.