video card dilemma :\

[Maskirovka]

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=31&threadid=1321767&enterthread=y
this is a repost from the anandtech forums...just looking for more replies

need help picking a vid card...here's my situation.

p4 2.4c
1024 corsair XMS 3200
abit IC7
viewsonic p95f+B (good 19" CRT)

that's my current setup...and my gf4 ti4200 just started overheating and freezing my comp. the fan is fine and i could try to reapply thermal paste or something but i was thinking of upgrading anyway.

I'm gonna be a counselor at a camp out of state this summer and i'm going to be in charge of the computer lab (i can bring my rig). i leave around the 15th of june and I won't be able to upgrade while at camp. so if i don't get a new card now i'll be forced to use an old card with a broken fan that doesn't work in 3d apps.

i was just going to get a sapphire 9800p (the $210 at newegg that most ppl have been having success modding to XT) until I saw the refurb version of the same one for $40 cheaper. then i started seeing those deals for x800pro's for around $360. now those deals have dried up.

so the problem is...do i just go for the 9800p? i'll probably be cpu limited on the x800...though i'll probably get a better p4 in the fall after i get back. i'd rather not spend $400 on an x800...and i don't want to get stuck on backorder and not get a card before camp...

so what are the chances i could get another sale and get an x800 in 2 weeks? should i just suck it up this summer? or should i just go for the 9800p refurb and try to get out for the cheapest possible and upgrade video more like next spring?

i'm not worried about my 2.4c being the bottleneck since i'm going to upgrade that probably this fall...and it overclocks to 2.89GHz now. (crappy OC for a 2.4c...i know oooo )

 

[Axyon]

I'm sure there won't be any bottlenecking with a 2.4 and x800 Pro. You could wait 2 weeks to see if there are any deals, but it's really your choice. There's certainly not going to be any fixed price drop by then, so you'll be relying on those deals to pop up. You could try searching for an OEM version, I suppose.

 

[Maskirovka]

yea...problem is i'm gonna have to order a certain # of days before i go...and having to pay for faster than ground shipping would defeat the purpose of trying to get a deal. i guess i just wanted to feel out and see some opinions about the refurb and what ppl think the chance is for a deal

 

[Asus]

If you are upgrading in the Fall then you will proabaly get a PCI Express board.
If you get a PCI Express board, wouldn't it be better to spend less now and a solid upgrade and put money toward the X800 versions in PCI Express?
Good time to start fresh.

Besides, upgrading from a P4 2.4C to any other P4 with 800FSB isn't going to give you enough performance for the price. Have to switch platform design (LGA 775? or A64?) to notice much of a difference.

Or you could upgrade to the X800 now and upgrade the CPU (possibly board) and still use the AGP.

 

[ewilson248]

I would wait until you have the game you want to play on it actually IN your hands until you make this decsion. things can change so much even in as little as 30 days.
todays good deal is tommorows white elephant.
case in point: earlier this year the 9800pro dropped almost $100 / 33%, seamingly overnight on pricewatch!! But I had already made my purchase based on a SW release date, now I am stuck with what I bought and the SW I bought the card to play on is not out yet.

BTW - a quick check over on pricewatch shows a NEW 9800pro for $170 including shipping, not bad at all.

just in case you gonna jump now..

 

[Maskirovka]

i'm pressed for time though...i have to leave for this camp in 2 weeks and i have no 3d video card...the only one i have has a broken fan that overheats and freezes with 3d apps.

i'm not going to be buying a whole new mobo/ram/cpu this fall...won't be able to afford it. and you don't think going from a p4 2.4c to a p4 3.4c will be much of a performance increase? i bet the 3.4c's won't be $400 this fall anymore...hell i can get a 2.8c for $175 right now...overclock that to 3.2 or so...2.4 ghz to 3+ghz will be noticable i'm sure...especially with the x800s...am i wrong?

 

[blahblahblah]

Here's an article that talks about CPU scaling with the X800 Pro. You may find it useful.

Link

 

[bosox188]

Here is an X800 pro for $358 on pricegrabber.
http://pcworld.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=2694795

If you were willing to spend $360, there you go.

 

[Asus]

Here's an article that talks about CPU scaling with the X800 Pro. You may find it useful.

Link

Yeah, thats a good article. I'm glad they did that for the P4 and AXP on both X800 and 9800.

 

[Alig]

Anyone know where to buy x800 pro's in UK :angry: pissing me off to no extent....are they pre-order only or something? ive yet to find a website without "out of stock" "due in 2006" "long delay" wtf is going on...have ATI only made a few...?

Im edging on just getting a 9800PRO because this is annoying..they should'nt release something if they only made enough to make 15 people per country happy.

 

[Asus]

you don't think going from a p4 2.4c to a p4 3.4c will be much of a performance increase? i bet the 3.4c's won't be $400 this fall anymore...hell i can get a 2.8c for $175 right now...overclock that to 3.2 or so...2.4 ghz to 3+ghz will be noticable i'm sure...especially with the x800s...am i wrong?

For the price...I don't think so at all.
I think the 3.4GHz will be the last stop for Northwood. That is the only core I would choose for P4 myself.
Not sure if Prescott will go beyond 3.4GHz (if it is available at all) on that socket. Probably not but then again who exactly wants Prescott for gaming.

Intel holds pretty similar pricing for the same speeds across different cores and sockets. It won't be til late fall when the 3.4GHz will be that low.

 

[Maskirovka]

doesn't bother me that much anyway...my 2.4c will OC to around 3ghz anyway...that'll last me until the games get a bit heavier and by then i'm sure i'll be getting an a64. the x800 seems like the better choice (especially if it's sub-$375) even if i'm not going to upgrade to an a64 until late fall or something.

i got the abit IC7 because it was going to support prescotts...and i knew the Athlon XP's were going nowhere as far as upgrade path went. i'm pretty pissed that the prescotts are so unimpressive...though if i'm lucky the price on the fastest northwoods will be reasonable and i won't have to upgrade my mobo/ram quite as quickly.

as far as that ecost.com $358 x800 pro...that's a good deal except for the fact that i have to leave in 2 weeks and they don't have any in stock...and the fact that ecost seems to have really low customer review ratings...i'd consider it if they were in stock...but...meh

anyway thanks a lot guys...i really appreciate the help...still haven't quite made a decision so keep the posts coming if you still have input...i like discussing vid card stuff anyway

 

[Arno]

Apparently you're on a tight schedule! You might wanna consider buying a video card in a local store. If you buy the card from a website, and once delivered it turns out to be broken, you won't have enough time left to wait for the replacement.

Just my $0.02

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

Yes, X800 Pro's are in large demand, yet the supply is too small. ATi fuxed themselves with that :-/

 

[Asus]

I think the only issue you would run into is if and when you switch to a new system...it will most likely be PCI Express and not AGP by that time.
The card you will buy today will be AGP.
Would you want to spend 400$ on a card that you can't use in your future PC when you can spend ~200 and still play the new DX9 games solid on the 9800Pro.

 

[Maskirovka]

I think the only issue you would run into is if and when you switch to a new system...it will most likely be PCI Express and not AGP by that time.
The card you will buy today will be AGP.
Would you want to spend 400$ on a card that you can't use in your future PC when you can spend ~200 and still play the new DX9 games solid on the 9800Pro.

that's the best argument i've heard for getting a 9800p...but won't the pci-e mobos have agp slots for a while? just like ISA got phased out? i haven't looked at all. if the pci-e boards have no agp, i'll definitely get a 9800p...since this fall i'm gonna have a job and i'll be able to afford a decent mobo/cpu

 

[Asus]

Not exactly.
Some may but too many.

ISA stayed because PCI was also a parallel design.
AGP is parallel also but a direct connection to the Northbridge chip. PCI Express uses a serial switch to connect the slots. They would have to have both type of buses to have AGP.
Link - Go through there and see how many AGP/PCI Express boards you see. I only saw 1 board (ALi/ULi) that had both. The rest were AGP or PCI Express only.
Although there were quiet a few that had DDR/DDR2 support.

 

[Maskirovka]

i see...perhaps i'll just get the 9800p now and go nuts later and get the a64 + x800 or whatever's top of the line then. it's hard to predict whether or not i'll keep the p4 board for long or not...or whether or not i'll have the money to change over to pci-e...getting cpu/ram/mobo/vcard all at once isn't exactly cheap :\ and that's how i've been able to upgrade and keep up with stuff...$200 here...$150 there...guess i'll have to save up for a while

 

[Hyperjag3]

Hi everyone,

I have a question almost the same as this one, so I didn't think I should have started a new thread. I have the same card that Maskirovka does (Ti 4200) and I want to upgrade to a Radeon 9800 Pro. My question is, what brand of card would be good for me to get? I want to be able to overclock later to extend the time before I have to upgrade again. I think I want either the HIS 9800 Pro (Here) or the Sapphire 9800 Pro (Here). I don't really want to put better heatsinks/fan on the Sapphire, thats why I was looking at the HIS. Thanks for any help.

 

[bosox188]

I would wait until you have the game you want to play on it actually IN your hands until you make this decsion. things can change so much even in as little as 30 days.
todays good deal is tommorows white elephant.
case in point: earlier this year the 9800pro dropped almost $100 / 33%, seamingly overnight on pricewatch!! But I had already made my purchase based on a SW release date, now I am stuck with what I bought and the SW I bought the card to play on is not out yet.

BTW - a quick check over on pricewatch shows a NEW 9800pro for $170 including shipping, not bad at all.

just in case you gonna jump now..

Don't get that 9800 pro, it's the 128-bit version, it's just a 9800SE softmodded, but it's nowhere near as good.

 

[Maskirovka]

Don't get that 9800 pro, it's the 128-bit version, it's just a 9800SE softmodded, but it's nowhere near as good.

yea i know about the 128-bit BS...thx though ;P

 

[Asus]

The sapphire is a one slot cooler and you don't need a replacement or upgraded fan. If it overheats then you probably need better case cooling, not a gfx card fan.

Mine has the same fan and I can OC it to XT speeds if I choose.

The only other hope you would have for using the X800 AGP card is if the rumors, of VIA making a PCI Express/AGP chipset for the A64, come true.

But I still think why spend twice as much money for a card you may be stuck using with this system when the other card will do more than what you need.

 

[jbscotchman]

Personally I'd wait until the 6800GT drops in the $360 range. You'll be getting a single slot card, 16 pipleines, and Shader Model 3.0

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

and Shader Model 3.0

UH OH, they still trying to make that a selling point? Shit, we still won't have 3.0 ingames till after DirectX9.0c and add another year for most games to impliment it.....Great selling point.....

 

[Maskirovka]

UH OH, they still trying to make that a selling point? Shit, we still won't have 3.0 ingames till after DirectX9.0c and add another year for most games to impliment it.....Great selling point.....

yes...and another person ignores the fact that my vid card is overheating and freezing my computer. i hope he was giving that advice to you, hyperjag. and even then...the 6800GT would get the same argument from ASUS...buying an overpowered AGP card when you should really be upgrading to PCI-E.

i don't think it's worth the extra $$ for the HIS card at all...most of the other 9800p's overclock well.

i was gonna just buy one of the OEM sapphires, but i just realized that the one hyperjag posted has a dvi->vga converter...and i have a spare monitor i could use. i was gonna get one anyway...and retail > oem anyway when the price is negligible.

though...what is this version:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-362&depa=1
different PCB/HSF? why? most ppl say that's the XT PCB...but also lots of ppl seem to be getting the hynix/360 with both cards...meh

 

[Maskirovka]

longer than 15 mins...so no edit :\

http://www.allstarshop.com/shop/pro...id=8648&sid=A97HU0E3K4MT8N14VWC8ENP6KGW01HG7#

i guess i'm gonna get this one...$10 more and a hl2 coupon. i'm gonna be at that camp, so i might as well download hl2 if it comes out while i'm there. laff@the 4-6 weeks delivery...plus i'm sure ppl will put the cache files for it on bittorrent if steam is horribly clogged...and i'll be at camp so it's not like i won't have other stuff to do while i wait for steam to DL it...

 

[Hyperjag3]

Thanks for the help. jbscotchman, if you were talking to me, I don't want to get something that expensive, I won't even need it as my monitor only goes up to 1280x1024, (I usually play on 1024x768 though). From the reviews on the Newegg page, most of them say that they had to get better cooling on that Sapphire (thats why I thought I would need to too). I do have pretty good cooling on my case: I have 1 intake fan in the side and 2 exaust in the back under the power supply (this is the case I have, but its the 868w model with a 400w power supply). I think I'll go with the Sapphire now though, thanks again.