Vietcong used US artillery to pwn US troops

[CptStern]

North Vietnamese made hoax calls to get the US military to bomb its own units during the Vietnam War, according to declassified information


During the war, North Vietnamese intelligence units sometimes succeeded in penetrating US communications systems, and they could monitor American message traffic from within, according to the report "Spartans in Darkness."

On several occasions "the communists were able, by communicating on Allied radio nets, to call in Allied artillery or air strikes on American units," it said.

if you look at it solely from a clinincal pov it's actually quite funny ..it's the military equivilent of a prank phone call albeit with disastrous results

NV soldier: "watch me order a pizza to the americans ..on second thought lets just get them to bomb the hell out of each other, teehee"


oh and btw:

according to declassified information that also confirmed US officials faked an incident to escalate the war.


the "most historically significant feature" of the declassified report was the retelling of the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident.

That was a reported North Vietnamese attack on American destroyers that helped lead to president Lyndon Johnson's sharp escalation of American forces in Vietnam.

The author of the report "demonstrates that not only is it not true, as (then US) secretary of defense Robert McNamara told Congress, that the evidence of an attack was 'unimpeachable,' but that to the contrary, a review of the classified signals intelligence proves that 'no attack happened that night,'" FAS said in a statement.

"What this study demonstrated is that the available intelligence shows that there was no attack. It's a dramatic reversal of the historical record," Aftergood said.

"There were previous indications of this but this is the first time we have seen the complete study," he said.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j-5IKhFZ-bFe_Nc957JypHhNTMxQ

:|

 

[Eejit]

No Gulf of Tonkin incident?


...That's BIG.

 

[Raziaar]

Hardly something to laugh about though unfortunately.

Maybe if it were a cartoon war though, it'd be hilarious. I can so totally see that being done in a bugs bunny movie.

 

[CptStern]

Hardly something to laugh about though unfortunately.

Maybe if it were a cartoon war though, it'd be hilarious. I can so totally see that being done in a bugs bunny movie.

which is why I put this little quantifier:

if you look at it solely from a clinincal pov..

 

[Raziaar]

which is why I put this little quantifier:

I know. I wasn't criticizing you. Just speaking in general.

 

[CptStern]

..but ..I'm the only one who said it's funny ..the only other person to respond to this thread didnt mention it, leaving just the two of us


so <shifts uncomfortably> ..how ya been? how's the missus ..well I gotta go now

 

[Raziaar]

..but ..I'm the only one who said it's funny ..the only other person to respond to this thread didnt mention it, leaving just the two of us

I said it because something like this would generally be thought of as amusing if you strip out all the real facts that real people died. I think it's a hilarious situation when stripped from all that grim reality.

 

[Raptor_Jesus]

No Gulf of Tonkin incident?


...That's BIG.

conspiracy theory.


post a better source please.

 

[CptStern]

conspiracy theory.


post a better source please.

google/AFP is not good enough for you? especially when it specifically mentions declassified US documents ..the horses mouth isnt good enough? should we ask for a DNA sample, signed confessions from those involved (especially the deceased) and a pound of flesh? this isnt something new, President johnson himself admitted it was bullshit ..at least the second attack was

In a tape recording that surfaced in 2001, President Lyndon B. Johnson admits that the Gulf of Tonkin second "attack," which he used to obtain approval for the Vietnam War from Congress, never occurred

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident


I guess you'll need a better source than the president himself?

 

[Raptor_Jesus]

yahoo is not good enough for you? especially when it specifically mentions declassified US documents ..the horses mouth isnt good enough? should we ask for a DNA sample, signed confessions from those involved (especially the deceased) and a pound of flesh? this isnt something new, President johnson himself admitted it was bullshit ..at least the second attack was



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident


I guess you'll need a better source than the president himself?

yes please


just kidding I did that know this upsetting to say atleast.

 

[VictimOfScience]

Wow. Geez. Next they'll be saying the evidence that led us to the miserable mess that is the current Iraq War was fabricated...or maybe that the Iranian boat attack video was fabricated....

Oh...wait!!! ;(

 

[Tyguy]

Wow. Geez. Next they'll be saying the evidence that led us to the miserable mess that is the current Iraq War was fabricated...or maybe that the Iranian boat attack video was fabricated....

nothing was fabricated, they just ignored the whole evidence thing.

 

[CptStern]

no, they definately fabricated things:

from the downingstreet memos:

C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.

also they used faulty inside information ..informants they knew to be untrust worthy ..Curveball's "evidence" led to a key point in Colin Powell's address to the security council where he spelt out the justification for war ..even though their own intelligence was saying the informant was a drunk and a liar: completely unreliable

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/112005X.shtml

 

[Adabiviak]

You're starting to affect my blind faith in the system.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

"Charlie Foxtrot, this is Sierra Tango; Have you got Prince Albert in a can, I repeat; Have you got Prince Albert in a can?"

 

[JFry]

It's a shame this kind of thing has happened and still happens today. I wish our political leaders were held to a higher standard.

 

[TCfromBN]

I thought the fabrication of the Gulf of Tonkin incident was a well and long known fact - apparently not

I thought so too. I learned about it in AP US History last year.

 

[Andrew LB]

^^^ Welcome to higher learning in the United States. When you open your eyes and see how incredibly leftist your high school and future college professors are, you'll realize you've been duped.

I had to put up with their crap for four years to get my bachelors degree in Political Science and minor in Constitutional Law. I can see why they're teaching college and not in the real world of business. Talk about a bunch of idiots.

 

[CptStern]

^^^ Welcome to higher learning in the United States. When you open your eyes and see how incredibly leftist your high school and future college professors are, you'll realize you've been duped.

:upstare:

I had to put up with their crap for four years to get my bachelors degree in Political Science and minor in Constitutional Law.

poor you, you should have attended Oral Roberts or Bovine Universities or one of those correspondance courses you see on the back of a matchbook with courses in Political Science, Hostage Negotiation, Constitutional Law ...education is what you make of it, I always say

I can see why they're teaching college and not in the real world of business. Talk about a bunch of idiots.

you paid $ to be taught by idiots?

 

[Andrew LB]

:upstare:



poor you, you should have attended Oral Roberts or Bovine Universities or one of those correspondance courses you see on the back of a matchbook with courses in Political Science, Hostage Negotiation, Constitutional Law ...education is what you make of it, I always say



you paid $ to be taught by idiots?

Yep. As do almost every college student in this country.

 

[CptStern]

well then who are the bigger idiots then? the teachers or those they teach?

 

[Andrew LB]

The teachers obviously.

Those of us with the mental capacity to see through their facade and think for ourselves are the ones who truly benefit from higher education. Not the "professional student" who then becomes a professor later in life only because they don't have the capability to function in the real world of business.

 

[Eejit]

Not all teachers teach business...

 

[CptStern]

The teachers obviously.

Those of us with the mental capacity to see through their facade and think for ourselves are the ones who truly benefit from higher education. Not the "professional student" who then becomes a professor later in life only because they don't have the capability to function in the real world of business.

right so your school hires wannabes and those too stupid to work in the real world? ..I find that funny cuz my university hired people who actually worked in their respective fields ..so my advertising design teacher was also a freelance advertising designer ..he definately "made it in the real world" cuz he drove a volvo and lived in one of the higher end areas of the city.. despite teaching 2 days a week for a grand total of 16 hours per month ...not enough to cover a volvo and a nice victorian home in a trendy area of town

 

[Andrew LB]

Not all teachers teach business...

I was referring to your stereotypical left winger "professional college student" who later goes on to become a professor mainly because they have absolutely no capability to survive in the modern world of business and enterprise.

I have quite a few liberal friends who after getting masters and Phd's, they never quite fit into any REAL job in the REAL world and have now gone back to becoming college professors because that is the largest safe haven for far left liberal activists.

right so your school hires wannabes and those too stupid to work in the real world? ..I find that funny cuz my university hired people who actually worked in their respective fields ..so my advertising design teacher was also a freelance advertising designer ..he definately "made it in the real world" cuz he drove a volvo and lived in one of the higher end areas of the city.. despite teaching 2 days a week for a grand total of 16 hours per month ...not enough to cover a volvo and a nice victorian home in a trendy area of town

Dude.... you're an advertising design major I'm assuming (i may be wrong). That is an entirely different field from what I majored in, which was Political Science and Constitutional Law.

My father was a graphics design graduate at California State University Long Beach, a highly respected graphics design and advertising program. And he like his many professions in that field were not like my professors. His professors actually practiced graphic design and advertising in the private sector as did my father when he graduated. He also went on to work for CBS, Sea Magazine, Grey Advertising, and soon after started his own graphic design/advertising company and has subsequently earned THREE Cleo awards for the work he has done over the years. The field you're in is SOOOOO far different than you'll ever find in departments such as Political Science, Constitutional Law, and other highly polarized fields.

 

[Lamarrfz]

I for one don't think I'll ever make it "in the world of business" because I don't like human contact and are terrible at promoting myself, or things. Business is a term that makes foam come out of my pulsating, catathonic mouth. I hope I'll be some sort of unknown programmer or I'll work in some computer-related activity that won't require much human interaction.