War in Middle Earth

[chaosyndrom]

Hey,

We had one update on FPSCentral so far, and its been going pretty good, except for a few bumps in the road (people already giving up, guess what they shouldn't have even started, starting is giving them a little to much credit.) Anyways now that I am the only one leading the project (use too be three) its been a slight set back, but! We will manage and were still going good, were just about ready to start getting this mod rolling.

What we have:

Well all the behind the scenes work is near done, right now we have very little staff, I haven't really "recruited" much, but that's what I'm here to do now. Website about done (link will be posted, much love and credit too Mr_Wong our web master) and the members we have right now are surely dedicated.


What we need:

Well Ill make this simple

3D Artist (Modelers) around 3+ (willing too stretch)
- 1 Character Modeler
- 1 Environment Modeler
- 1 Weapon + Accessories Modeler
- 1 Anything Modeler


2D Artist (Skinner) 3+ (willing too stretch)
- 1 2D Artist to do Terrain
- 1 2D Artist to do Characters
- 1 2D Artist to do Statics
- 1 "anything" 2D Artist

Mappers (using hammer) 2+ (willing too stretch)
- 2 (at the lest) Proficient Hammer Mappers

Programmers 2+
- 2 (or more) Proficient C++ programmers


Other:
- UVmappers
- LOTR Advisor

Ok I know this asking for quite much, but this is what were gonna need, I said Terrain and character 2d artist, but one person maybe proficient in both so we will see how this works out.

If you would like too join, just give me an email, or instant message.

Email: [email protected]
AIM: wme chaos (copy and paste from the w too the s)
MSN: [email protected]

Thanks for reading and make sure too visit us at:
http://www.wme-mod. tk (please type this in browser I cannot post links on this forum).

 

[chaosyndrom]

Sorry double post no idea how...

 

[The Dark Elf]

Waste of effort, considering you don't own any rights to it.

 

[63]

Yup, TDE's right, and you won't get them

 

[chaosyndrom]

Dont worry.

 

[Sprafa]

Read my Sticky. Besides, the license of the books is with Vivendi, and the license of the movies is with EA.

You can get double sued

They're actually both planning games in the ME universe, so really, you have 0.0001% chances of getting the rights

 

[63]

Dont worry.

Why would we, it's not our project hehe :thumbs:

 

[The Dark Elf]

Dont worry.

Isn't us who should be worried, you don't seem to be able to grasp the intricaces of copyright law and intellectual property.

You have NO rights to use anything from LotR's.

 

[chaosyndrom]

Emphasizing that you guys are trying to help, although it came out rather rude, I will try an change everything and anything I can, since Middle Earth is one word (well I believe they would have rights over Middle Earth not Middle and Earth, thats impossible) would a dash between the two change that?

 

[Icarus]

Dont worry.

It's not a matter of worry. Your idea, as proposed, simply will not happen. Sorry, but the rights to the name are so secure that you will not be able to use anything directly from the movie/book/universe. You may, however, use things "Based off of" but no direct ideas or concepts.

Emphasizing that you guys trying to help, although it came out rather rude, I will try an change everything and anything I can, since Middle Earth is one word, would a dash between the two change that?

No.

 

[chaosyndrom]

no? Would you please explain why? I dont see why it wouldn't change it.

 

[Adrien C]

It's not a matter of worry. Your idea, as proposed, simply will not happen. Sorry, but the rights to the name are so secure that you will not be able to use anything directly from the movie/book/universe. You may, however, use things "Based off of" but no direct ideas or concepts.



No.

Yay, new staff member, what is it that you do ?

 

[63]

Yay, new staff member, what is it that you do ?

Psssst: look at his title :rolling:

 

[chaosyndrom]

Come on guys please stay on topic.

 

[Adrien C]

Yes I know but he could detail a little bit more his job.

Ok, back on topic, you'll never get the writes, try something original. it could be humans against orcs, just be original.

 

[dassbaba]

here: just bake thedarkelf a pie and send it to him, i'm sure those "copyrights" will disappear thereafter

 

[Mechagodzilla]

no? Would you please explain why? I dont see why it wouldn't change it.

Well, what you're attempting is this:

No-one owns the rights to the word "the," and a "matrix" is technically just a table of numerical values. So I'll just make a movie about futristic gunfights and call it The Matrix, since that's two words! No copyright violation there!

See the problem?

 

[RIFT555]

Waste of effort, considering you don't own any rights to it.

Auctually this is not true and is often missunderstood. This will only become an issue IF the mod is to make money. It is done and has been done thousands of times with no lawsuits.

Here is a example you will all know. CS was just released as a buyable game right? Notice the change in weapon names? If you guys were correct, no one would be able to have a gun named Dester Eagle in it. Untill it makes money


Hope this clears things up.

 

[RIFT555]

OOOPPs!

Almost forgot, you MUST state the owner of the idea/material. If you were doing a Star Wars mod, you better give credit to Lucasarts.


RIFT

 

[Icarus]

Auctually this is not true and is often missunderstood. This will only become an issue IF the mod is to make money. It is done and has been done thousands of times with no lawsuits.

Here is a example you will all know. CS was just released as a buyable game right? Notice the change in weapon names? If you guys were correct, no one would be able to have a gun named Dester Eagle in it. Untill it makes money


Hope this clears things up.

Wrong, with CS the names where in their, basiclly free advertising, thats why they got changed, not because of copywrite infringement.

The explaination of how this is different would take too long for me to explain at this moment. Short reason, this is entertainment software, because another company owns the rights to make interactive entertainment using this license. Even if a company didn't own the interactive enterianment license a 'mod' made with out permission would be taking away from possible profits they could make with one.

 

[Icarus]

OOOPPs!

Almost forgot, you MUST state the owner of the idea/material. If you were doing a Star Wars mod, you better give credit to Lucasarts.


RIFT

Wrong, that wouldn't happen. Look at LucasArts track record, almost every mod made using Star Wars things have been given Cease And Desist orders by LucasArts

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I'm surprised how many people think that unlicensed mods are okay, as long as they do so and so.

Whenever you see a Mod using another's IP, one of three things is happening:

1: The people who own the rights haven't found out yet.
2: The people who own the rights have allowed the mod to exist as free advertising. (This is extremely rare.)
3: The mod has been given official permission to use the IP.

In almost every case though, it's #1.
And, unless your mod fits #3, you're violating copyright.

 

[RIFT555]

Here are just four mods I found real quick with google.com. All are movies or TV and two are/ have games in their names. It is not an issue untill you make money!

BF1942 (Star Wars mod) http://www.galactic-conquest.net ( I spoke with the mod leader some time ago when I played this, they never got Lucasarts permission and it is a VERY popular mod.)

BLACK HAWK DOWN MODIFICATION FOR CALL OF DUTY

Band of Brothers Names for Call of duty

A Tron mod for Unreal http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~utron/


As for the names, please, how much free advertising would they give away to AK for their AK47's? Every other realistic game has the real names. Does AA use fake names for their weapons? No, it would be silly.

I am not trying to be mean, I am trying to get the truth out. Its called "Fair use or fair practice" and you can read about it here. http://www.whatiscopyright.org/

RIFT

 

[Icarus]

Here are just four mods I found real quick with google.com. All are movies or TV and two are/ have games in their names. It is not an issue untill you make money!

BF1942 (Star Wars mod) http://www.galactic-conquest.net ( I spoke with the mod leader some time ago when I played this, they never got Lucasarts permission and it is a VERY popular mod.)

BLACK HAWK DOWN MODIFICATION FOR CALL OF DUTY

Band of Brothers Names for Call of duty

A Tron mod for Unreal http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~utron/


As for the names, please, how much free advertising would they give away to AK for their AK47's? Every other realistic game has the real names. Does AA use fake names for their weapons? No, it would be silly.

I am not trying to be mean, I am trying to get the truth out. Its called "Fair use or fair practice" and you can read about it here. http://www.whatiscopyright.org/

RIFT

Wrong agian, Fair use only concerns parody, news reporting, research and education, even your link says that. As for the Star Wars game, I guarentee you he will, if he hasn't already, be getting a Cease and Desist order, considering Star Wars: Battlefronts is coming out.

The fact of the matter is that they own the name, so they can bar others from using it, unless it falls under parody, news reporting, research or education. Plain and simple.

This is all I have to say on the subject

James DeSimas
Legal Counsel For Halflife2.net

 

[RIFT555]

The fact of the matter is that they own the name, so they can bar others from using it, unless it falls under parody, news reporting, research or education. Plain and simple.

You finally got it! They CAN, but they never will, its not worth it. If anything it is free advertisement for them...free, they like that.
But you will not go to jail, you will not get a cease and desist (unless you are harming their name), you will not pass, go and you will not collect $200.

You forgot to say anything about all thoes other ones that I found in 3 mins on google.

No, they will not get a cease and decist order from LA, they would have done it years ago. Hell, pcgamer even says that Lucasarts stole the idea from them

Fact is, its not against the law unless you are getting $$ off of it. Im sorry you dont like that, but its the truth.

RIFT

 

[Icarus]

You finally got it! They CAN, but they never will, its not worth it.

Actually they already have, both LucasArts and the owners of LoTR have repeatedly said they do not want anyone using the names.

Fact is, its not against the law unless you are getting $$ off of it.

Fact is, you are wrong, and you don't know what you are talking about, it is agianst the law.

It is Copyright Infringement, as defined in:

Copyright Law of the United States of America and Related Laws Contained in Title 17 of the United States Code;
Chapter 5: Copyright Infringement and Remedies
§ 501. Infringement of copyright

Anyone who violates any of the exclusive rights of the copyright owner as provided by;

Copyright Law of the United States of America and Related Laws Contained in Title 17 of the United States Code;
Chapter 1: Subject Matter and Scope of Copyright;
§ 106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works

Im sorry you dont like that, but its the truth.

It's not the truth. Agian see;

Copyright Law of the United States of America and Related Laws Contained in Title 17 of the United States Code;
Chapter 5: Copyright Infringement and Remedies
§ 501. Infringement of copyright

Anyone who violates any of the exclusive rights of the copyright owner as provided by

Copyright Law of the United States of America and Related Laws Contained in Title 17 of the United States Code;
Chapter 1: Subject Matter and Scope of Copyright;
§ 106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works



Did you not read my title? I am the Legal Counsel for this website, I know what I am talking about.

 

[RIFT555]

Copyright Law of the United States of America and Related Laws Contained in Title 17 of the United States Code;

Wana post a link so I can read the entire thing, instead of just the title? Your post PROVES nothing except for the fact that you LOVE saying im wrong.

Actually they already have, both LucasArts and the owners of LoTR have repeatedly said they do not want anyone using the names.

Got a source for any of this stuff?

Did you not read my title? I am the Legal Counsel for this website, I know what I am talking about.

Anybody can have any title, it does not mean much on the internet, you could be anybody.

Seems like we both have points to our arguments, you just leave most of my good points out

RIFT

 

[Icarus]

Go ahead and strike my comment about them saying it that since it is still agianst the law(Couldn't find the source).
Still, they don't need to put it up somewhere that they don't want the name used. It is agianst the law unless they give express permisson to the entity in question.

And my post proves everything if you would care to look it up, it's really easy.

The link for the online version is: http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html

I'm not just saying you are wrong, I'm proving it.

But yet you still come back for more.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

RIFT555: for every example you can find of a mod using someone else's coptright, there's 3 or 4 examples of mods being shut down.

Where does the term "foxed" come from? Someone started making Aliens Quake. Fox hit them with a C&D - but they weren't doing it for money.....

Please look at the article linked in this thread:
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17284

Thanks.

 

[Neutrino]

RIFT555, you really don't have a leg to stand on with this.

 

[RIFT555]

If you want to go by definition, you did not prove anything, but you did finally PUSH me in the right direction. (I dont know what your fetish is with you being right).

I found that: § 106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works36
Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:

(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;

(2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work;

Thats the bad news. The good news is: § 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use38
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research (its a stretch, but who knows), is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include — This is where it gets good.

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; nonprofit buddy!

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work; Its a friggin game

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and Most modders use little of the original, just the idea, not the names and storyline.

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. dont make their stuff look crapy!

So we see that its a fine line. Oh, and I checked the Battletech copyrights......they say its ok to modify and use their stuff for non-profit.

RIFT

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

As you said, it's a stretch to refer to it as "research". I can't see anyone going for that, somehow. As the remainder of your argument is based on the acceptance of "research" as a valid medium, it's somewhat flawed.

 

[Icarus]

It's not research, it's entertainment, so that stops your arguement right there.


But I'll continue anyway;

Concerning Point One; (nonprofit buddy!)
It says "nonprofit educational purposes" not "non-profit or educational" it must be both non-profit and educational.

Concerning Point Two; (Its a friggin game)
Yeah it is...And? Do you think think the law is any different for interactive entertainment? No, it isn't.

Concerning Point Three; (Most modders use little of the original, just the idea, not the names and storyline.)
The copyright is on the name and the Intellectual property(i.e. the "universe") so that means everything they haven't made up themselves. That includes characters and such. Remember that the idea is copyrighted just as much as the execution.

Concerning Point Four; (don't make their stuff look crappy)
No, that line means taking away from the value or potential market value. Which includes filling a gap they could potentially fill(e.g. with a game).

So once agian, I invalidated everything you just tried to prove, and renforced the fact that, I am right, you are wrong.
Law School isn't for nothing.

 

[RIFT555]

RIFT555: for every example you can find of a mod using someone else's coptright, there's 3 or 4 examples of mods being shut down.

Where does the term "foxed" come from? Someone started making Aliens Quake. Fox hit them with a C&D - but they weren't doing it for money.....

Please look at the article linked in this thread:
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17284

Thanks.
__________________

Holy crap Batman!
Someone giving usefull information and citing a source that helps prove his point, and is not being a asshole about it!

Thank god a adult finally showed up. Maybe a moderator can move all this junk out of this guys forums now. I dont mind being wrong, I just hate it when people are a ass about being correct, especially when they are SUPPOSED to be helping people.

RIFT

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Holy crap Batman!
Someone giving usefull information and citing a source that helps prove his point, and is not being a asshole about it!

Thank god a adult finally showed up. Maybe a moderator can move all this junk out of this guys forums now. I dont mind being wrong, I just hate it when people are a ass about being correct, especially when they are SUPPOSED to be helping people.
RIFT

Well, you were basically trying to convince mod makers that they can get away with copyright infringement under false pretenses.

Frankly, they could have been far harsher, and with good reason.

All the mod's points have been valid and correct.
They only seemed like "a ass" because they told you that you were totally wrong when you were totally wrong.


Also, I tried highlighting every part where YOU were being an ass, in just your last post.
As you can see, the ENTIRE THING is highlighted.

"Thank god a adult showed up," indeed.

 

[RIFT555]

Well, you were basically trying to convince mod makers that they can get away with copyright infringement under false pretenses.

I had a belief, that I was uneducated on. No one tried to educate me, just said "you are wrong and im right" That is being a ass.

Frankly, they could have been far harsher, and with good reason.

People come here to gather information, you can be adult about it and be nice. I saw a guy in anothere thread being attacked because of his misunderstanding of the mapping utility you all thought he stole code, never asked him, just accused.

All the mod's points have been valid and correct.
They only seemed like "a ass" because they told you that you were totally wrong when you were totally wrong.

I was wrong, was man enough to admitt it, and you are still being a ass throwing more crap up.

Also, I tried highlighting every part where YOU were being an ass, in just your last post.

Yes I was being an ass in one post, due to the fact I have been treaded like crap and attacked since my 1st post, dont I get one? You had so many

"Thank god a adult showed up," indeed.

Quick, get him back here. We need to schooch these 12yr olds off to school.

RIFT

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I had a belief, that I was uneducated on. No one tried to educate me, just said "you are wrong and im right" That is being a ass.

I don't know if you're talking about the same thread here. Your first post didn't ask a question or say "I believe that..."

You told Fenric (who has spent years in the industry) that he was wrong, then proceeded to make claims about the "true" nature of copyright law based on nothing but incorrect assumptions that you attempted to disguise as fact.

People come here to gather information, you can be adult about it and be nice.

That's the problem: people come here to find information. You were dispensing incorrect information When the mods, mods who are experts in modmaking and copyright law, told you that you were wrong and explained why you were wrong, your first step was to tell them to look at a link about copyright that you did not fully understand.

Then, when they showed you that you did not understand the link, you continued to profess your opinion as the only true opinion and claimed that copyright infringement is okay because no-one ever gets caught.

I was wrong, was man enough to admitt it, and you are still being a ass throwing more crap up.

You only just admitted you were wrong in this last post! You just spent your ONLY 8 posts on the forum being 100% wrong and whenever anyone told you that you were wrong, you called them an ass! Why don't you quit while you're behind?

Yes I was being an ass in one post, due to the fact I have been treaded like crap and attacked since my 1st post, dont I get one? You had so many

It was not just that one post. It has been, so far, every post you've ever made. Look back at the thread! NO ONE HAS YET TREATED YOU BADLY. If anything, they've shown restraint since you were clearly making shit up and being a condecending bastard about the whole affair!

"You had so many?" Is that a personal attack? Please cite examples of how, in any respect, I said anything even remotely as wrong and assholish as you have here?

You were an ass when you thought you were right.
You were an ass when you were called wrong 11 times by different people and still wouldn't shut up.
You were an ass when you accused everyone of treating you poorly when they were actually being kind and reasonable to someone who did not deserve or appreciate their help!

Quick, get him back here. We need to schooch these 12yr olds off to school.

I'm 18 years old, and don't play the age game with me, because whatever you age, it's clear you aren't adult enough to handle reality when it checks your face to the boards.

You are wrong.
You have always been wrong!
You have yet to say anything even remotely true!
Do you understand why everyone was calling you wrong now?!

I don't normally get this pissed, but I hate you so much already, you condecending jackass.

 

[Icarus]

You just don't know when to stop digging do you? Can't you see that everyone else might be right?

I had a belief, that I was uneducated on. No one tried to educate me, just said "you are wrong and im right"

No, you TOLD us that we were wrong. Look;

Auctually this is not true and is often missunderstood. This will only become an issue IF the mod is to make money. It is done and has been done thousands of times with no lawsuits.

Hope this clears things up.

and then

I was wrong, was man enough to admitt it, and you are still being a ass throwing more crap up.

Whats funny is that you never admited being wrong, you just hid "I don't mind being wrong" in a post full of you "still being a ass throwing more crap up"

If you would have made a post that said something along the lines of "Oh, I didn't see it that way, I admit I was wrong", instead of saying things like "Thank god a adult finally showed up." I guarrentee you no one would have said anything else to you, but since you seem to like insulting people, then you got what you deserved.

 

[Sprafa]

Do you really think we're all lying just for the fun of it?