war in the caucasus

They've been ugly for a while mate.


The Russian men have also been in there for a while too :(
 
What is exactly is going on? Georgia is trying to control a separatist region that Russia supports?
 
South Ossetia, or Khussar Iristan, whichever you prefer is a breakaway republic of Georgia. Another part of it, North Ossetia, is part of Russia, so they can enter from that avenue.

Anyway, this region is the absolute asshole of the world. The governments are totally corrupt, kidnapping, bribe, and extortion is everyday-business, and it just sucks. Perhaps an extension of Russia's fledgling Southern republics like Kabardino-Balkaria, Dagestan and Karachay-Cherkessia. Regardless, that entire place just sucks. It's supposed to be pretty beautiful, though.

Managed to dig this up - http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dd8_1193878157
Russian peacekeeping forces arrest Georgian police who try to stop them from investigating nearby gunfire. Not related to the recent fighting, there's lots of clips available of that... just checked.
 
That's what happens when you recgonize Kosovo without the consent of Russia and keep ignoring south ossetia.

Russia didn't it take it very well that western powers would meddle in the internal affairs of slavic countries (which are under the sphere of influence of Russia).
After all, they warned the world that recognising Kosovo would backfire against them (remember that Georgia is UN and US backed).
 
Nemesis6 said:
Anyway, this region is the absolute asshole of the world. The governments are totally corrupt, kidnapping, bribe, and extortion is everyday-business, and it just sucks. Perhaps an extension of Russia's fledgling Southern republics like Kabardino-Balkaria, Dagestan and Karachay-Cherkessia. Regardless, that entire place just sucks. It's supposed to be pretty beautiful, though.
Click to expand...

Agreed completely. It has gotten a bit better in some areas, but the Caucuses in general are still in a state where organized crime pretty much runs the place, and officials come to expect bribes. North Ossetia is probably one of the better areas because they have traditionally had a very close relationship with Russia.

On a somewhat related note, I have a professor who is from North Ossetia, near Beslan. He brought in some home videos from when he lived there (we were studying the region, so it was in context) and it really is quite beautiful.
 
Russia needs to have a go-on with China or the US, not some little country that can't properly defend itself.
 
I apologize in advance, for my english, but I want to say you something about this conflict.
South Ocetia, was with Georgia, only in USSR time. After 1991 South Ocetia are independent.

At yesterday nigh Georgia attacked sleeping city with atrillery. You can watch that in this videos.
http://rutube***/tracks/909071.html
http://rutube***/tracks/908437.html
This videos in russian, but you can see artillery attack. (luminous rockets at night)

Russian tanks entered in city only after artillery attack, aproximately in 4 PM of local time.
But I heard, you tv-channels say about russian tank wich enterd in city in yestoday nigh.
Even Georgian newsmakers dont say it.

1400 citizens dead in Tshinvaly because of georgian artillery attack.

Im sory for directness of my text.
 
I understood, I think.


So, Georgia attacked the city with rocket artillery (which is used rather for supporting fire then bombardment due to the nature of rockets being i) woefully inaccurate ii) massive firepower (140mm)) and then Russian tanks move in?


Please clarify, Russia = good guys?
 
That's not really surprising. Georgia is backed by the US as they are trying to increase their influence in that region, Russia is answering to that.

The US should be careful about that, american weapons are killing muslims in Israel and you know what the end results are...
Now slavish people are being killed by american weapons, it can't be good either.
 
15357 said:
Russia needs to have a go-on with China or the US, not some little country that can't properly defend itself.
Click to expand...

You think that would a great idea? Two nuclear powers fighting each others... ?

Powerful countries cannot fight each other because modern weaponry of mass destruction means the earth would probably be destroyed, that's why they fight through proxy war.
 
15357 said:
Russia needs to have a go-on with China or the US, not some little country that can't properly defend itself.
Click to expand...

Russia and China are good friends, China regards Russia as their Big Brother. It's more like China and Russia against the US.
 
A big problem is, there are many Russian online newspapers, but it's hard to find the few who are not mouthpieces for the government, so getting reliable news is pretty hard. This is probably propaganda, but anyway...

15:45 - 76 Airborne Brigade of the Russian Army arrives in the conflict region - Russian military officials.

15:20 GMT – Prime Minister Putin arrives in Russia’s republic of North Ossetia to discuss aid for the refugees arriving from South Ossetia.

14:19 GMT – Russia’s Interfax news agency quotes locals in Georgia claiming convoys of ‘NATO military vehicles’ are travelling to South Ossetia.

14:02 GMT – Fifty journalists in Tskhinvali ask Russia, Georgia and United States to organise safe passage for them and civilian refugees.

14:16 GMT – South Ossetian President says second Georgian assault on Tskhinvali was repelled.

14:13 GMT – Georgian troops are regrouping ‘ready to repel any attack’, says Georgian Interior Ministry.

13:50 GMT - UN High Commissioner for Refugees confirms up to 7,400 people flee from South Ossetia.

13:34 GMT – At least 2,000 people were killed in Tskhinvali -Russia’s ambassador to Georgia.

13:16 GMT – Russia considers bringing the killing of peacekeepers to the international court - Foreign Ministry.

13:03 GMT – Tbilisi may ask the West for military aid – head of Georgia’s national security council.

12:53 GMT – Bush assures Medvedev he will help return the situation in South Ossetia to the sphere of diplomacy.

12:53 GMT – Georgian troops block 2,000 refugees from fleeing South Ossetia – Russian Foreign Ministry.

12:48 GMT – Medvedev tells Bush by phone: ‘Russia is forcing Georgia to peace, protecting the lives and dignity of its citizen’ - Ria Novosti.

12:30 GMT – Websites from the *** domain are blocked in Tbilisi – Russian embassy.

11:52 GMT – Abkhazia says it has launched an offensive against Georgian troops in the Kodory gorge.

11:05 GMT – Saakashvili calls for an immediate ceasefire, accuses Russia of invasion.

11:09 GMT – Georgian parliament approves declaration of martial law in the country.

10:34 GMT – Georgian media report Russia has bombed Tbilisi-controlled villages in Abkhazia.

10:16 GMT – Georgia is de facto at war with Russia – Georgian Foreign Ministry.

10:10 GMT – Georgian websites are under attack – Saakashvili.

10:02 GMT – Georgian artillery resumes shelling the peacekeepers’ headquarters in Tskhinvali, according to Interfax.

09:40 GMT – Georgia has 50 dead and 450 wounded after three days of battles – unidentified military source in the conflict zone, quoted by the Interfax news agency.

09:00 – Georgia to declare martial law – President Mikhail Saakashvili.

08:59 GMT – Georgian troops ‘surrender and flee’ in Tskhinvali – peacekeeping commander.

08:59 GMT – Georgian media claim a Russian pilot has been captured after two planes were shot down. Another was found dead, reports say.

08:46 – Experts from the EU, the US and the OSCE are to mediate in the Georgian-Ossetian conflict – office of EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana.

08:32 GMT – The use of multiple-launch rocket systems by Georgia caused mass civilian losses – Russian military.

08:32 GMT – Georgia is building up forces near the Abkhazian border, according to Abkhazian officials.

08:24 GMT – Russian military denies bombing civilians in Georgia.

08:20 GMT – Russian military admits loosing two aircraft in South Ossetian conflict.

07:54 – Russian troops do not control Tskhinvali so they resort to air strikes – Georgian official.

07:54 – Moscow accuses Kiev of encouraging the Georgian offensive by supplying Tbilisi with arms.

07:40 GMT – Russian units ‘have cleared Tskhinvali of Georgian troops’, according to the commander of Russia’s ground forces, General Boldirev.

07:24 GMT – Russian paratrooper units arrive in South Ossetia.

07:22 GMT – Peacekeeping commander reports Russian troops have suppressed the intensive bombardment of Tskhinvali by Georgian military.

07:16 GMT – U.S. Ministry of State condemns Russia’s ‘use of strategic bombers and missiles’ against Georgia.

07:15 GMT – Russian Emergencies Ministry sets up temporary refugee camps in southern Russia.

07:12 GMT – Tskhinvali death toll rises to 1,600 people, according to South Ossetian officials.

07:13 GMT – South Ossetia claims it has shot down a second Georgian fighter plane.

07:06 GMT – NATO has no mandate to interfere in the South Ossetian conflict - alliance official.

07:04 GMT – An estimated 30,000 refugees have fled South Ossetia over the past 1.5 days - Russian Government official.

06:56 GMT – Those responsible for the humanitarian crisis in South Ossetia must be held responsible for their actions – Medvedev.

06:46 GMT – Georgia to withdraw all its troops from Iraq – Reuters agency.

06:48 GMT – Georgia says Russian aircraft have bombed a telecom site in the Georgian city of Gori.

05:56 GMT – Georgia’s Defence Minister reports that his country’s troops are advancing into South Ossetian territory.

05:51 GMT – South Ossetians say Georgian snipers are hampering the transfer of the wounded to hospitals.

05:51 GMT – Georgian media reports 12 Georgian soldiers were killed during bombing of a military base by Russian aircraft.

05:46 GMT – Russian peacekeepers have launched a peace enforcing operation in South Ossetia – Medvedev.

05:30 GMT - Russian Special Forces attachment arrives on outskirts of Tskhinvali – Russian military source

05:15 GMT – Russian unit breaks through to peacekeepers base camp, says military official. Evacuation of wounded soldiers starts.

05:09 GMT – South Ossetians claims Georgian troops captured hostages while retreating.

05:02 GMT – Russian military prosecutors launch an investigation into peacekeeper deaths in South Ossetia.

05:02 GMT – Russian military prosecutors launch an investigation into peacekeepers deaths in South Ossetia.

04:03 GMT – Russia sends special forces troops to South Ossetia.

03:56 GMT – Three Russian peacekeepers die overnight, raising the total death toll for peacekeeping forces to 15 - Russian military.

03:45 GMT – Evacuees report to Russian military that Georgian artillery shelled a convoy with wounded people - Interfax

02:00 GMT – U.S. condemns Russia’s ‘military actions against Georgia’, announces U.S. envoy to the United Nations.

00:10 GMT – The shelling of Tshinvali stops.
Click to expand...
http://www***ssiatoday***/news/news/28684

Edit: Yep, this is indeed a mouthpiece for the Russian government, but they do have some original footage on their youtube page, and they do translate, so... If you can filter out the slant, there might be some interestingstuff there: http://www.youtube.com/user/RussiaToday
 
SO is filled with Russian passports handed out like candy, it'd take time for Russia to move all these reaction forces to save SO unless they planned conflict, and Russia wants to annex a SO that for some reason seems strangely interested in joining Russia.

Georgia forcing itself upon the South Ossetians is wrong, but I don't trust Russia's involvement at all.



Its very possible America will have to get involved, lest leaving Georgia to get conquered by Russia shows the glaring weakness in entrusting to multi-national defense agreements.

Regardless no response of aid will come from Europe, I'm starting to believe that a peaceful logical Europe really is just a continent of impotent cowards instead.
 
nurizeko said:
and Russia wants to annex a SO that for some reason seems strangely interested in joining Russia.
Click to expand...

It isn't strange at all. South Ossetia wants to reunite with North Ossetia, and North Ossetia has no interest in separating from Russia.
 
staticprimer said:
It isn't strange at all. South Ossetia wants to reunite with North Ossetia, and North Ossetia has no interest in separating from Russia.
Click to expand...

And Russia doesn't give a shit about minorities desires for inmdependence or ambitions period unless it involves joining Russia.

GG
 
Not surprising, it's not like Georgia was a match for the Russian army, even the South Ossetian army would have stood a chance against them.
 
Maybe I read it wrong?

I read that Russia initiated talks but was met with artillery fire, so they returned fire. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Seems to be the equivalent of "hold your fire" but 1 guy who disregards it and fires a gun shot turns into everyone shooting.
 
AJ Rimmer said:
From what I've read it doesn't seem like Putty is interested in talks right now.
Click to expand...

It was my understanding that Russia would not talk until Georgia withdrew from South Ossetia. If that is the case, Georgia's alleged withdrawl (Russian military is disputing this right now) would seem to indicate they want to talk. I can't say for sure though, we're working off of limited and skewed information.
 
staticprimer said:
It was my understanding that Russia would not talk until Georgia withdrew from South Ossetia. If that is the case, Georgia's alleged withdrawl (Russian military is disputing this right now) would seem to indicate they want to talk. I can't say for sure though, we're working off of limited and skewed information.
Click to expand...

No, that sounds alot like what the papers here say. But as you said, it's hard to tell, most of the headlines are taken up by the olympics. Which, I'm guessing, is part of the plan.
 
AJ Rimmer said:
Which, I'm guessing, is part of the plan.
Click to expand...

Are you taking this a little too far? I mean, the Plan, come on...
And anyways, didn't Georgia pretty much start it all? They were the first ones to shoot.
 
chimpmunk said:
Are you taking this a little too far? I mean, the Plan, come on...
And anyways, didn't Georgia pretty much start it all? They were the first ones to shoot.
Click to expand...

Timing whatever military actions they had planned to coincide with the Olympics, to make sure it didn't get too much international attention and consequently bad publicity? No, I think that's pretty reasonable. Olympics in China is controversial enough to distract alot of people's attention from a war in a country most people know very little about and consequently, don't care that much for. The war's been on for what, three days? Today is the first day that the first headline on one of Sweden's biggest news sites is about the war, and even that was only so after around three or four this afternoon. Before that it was the Olympics in China.
 
AJ Rimmer said:
Timing whatever military actions they had planned to coincide with the Olympics, to make sure it didn't get too much international attention and consequently bad publicity? No, I think that's pretty reasonable. Olympics in China is controversial enough to distract alot of people's attention from a war in a country most people know very little about and consequently, don't care that much for. The war's been on for what, three days? Today is the first day that the first headline on one of Sweden's biggest news sites is about the war, and even that was only so after around three or four this afternoon. Before that it was the Olympics in China.
Click to expand...

Who are you talking about, Russia or Georgia? Because Chimpmunk is right, Georgia did make the first move. If there was any plan, it would have to be on the part of Georgia or NATO.

Anyway, the Georgian president has called for a ceasefire and for talks to begin, however there is still sporadic fighting going on. Russia is claiming that Georgian forces have not completely withdrawn and Georgia is claiming Russia is continuing to conduct air strikes in and near Abkhazia. Who knows what is accurate at this point, getting all of the information second hand sucks.
 
It's interesting that Russia is meddling in the political turmoil that steams from the a separation within another country, but at the same time hates when other countries criticize Russia's handing of the Chechnya conflict.
 
The Monkey said:
It's interesting that Russia is meddling in the political turmoil that steams from the a separation within another country, but at the same time hates when other countries criticize Russia's handing of the Chechnya conflict.
Click to expand...

Kinda reminds of the US doesn't it?
 
MiccyNarc said:
Fixxed!
Click to expand...

That works.

chimpmunk said:
You think that would a great idea? Two nuclear powers fighting each others... ?

Powerful countries cannot fight each other because modern weaponry of mass destruction means the earth would probably be destroyed, that's why they fight through proxy war.
Click to expand...

They don't have to use WMDs, they can fight each other just the same. War/world without nukes would be much much better.

PimpinPenguin said:
Russia and China are good friends, China regards Russia as their Big Brother. It's more like China and Russia against the US.
Click to expand...

Too bad. :/

Kinda reminds of the US doesn't it?
Click to expand...

Um.... how?
 
Im sorry, I dont finally understand what you say. (becouse of my english) But I will try to answer.

I dont say Russia - good guys, and I dont say Georgia - good guys.
I just tell you facts, for your attention.
And I want to add. I heard, russian plains bombing only military georgian object.

It is my opinion, about this conflict:

I dont finnaly understad truly reason of conflict. I suppose it begin becouse of gas pipe line.
I heard, Georgia want to build it across South Osetia, but Russia try to destroy that plan. (sorry for that uncomfortable phrase)
Also, Georgia want enter in NATO, but maybe it dont happen, if Georgia have disputable zone on their territory (like independent SO at last 14 years).
Also, russian gonverment want to distract peoples attension from internal problems to this conflict.
 
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