War On Drugs; The Prison Industrial Complex

[CptStern]

documentary

For the past 25 years, the U.S. has pursued a drug policy based on prohibition and the application of severe criminal sanctions for the use and sale of illicit substances. Over this 25-year period, the rate at which criminal penalties have been imposed has steadily increased resulting in the United States imprisoning more of its citizens than any other industrialized nation. Furthermore, the enforcement of drug laws has not always been applied equally to all groups, despite comparable rates of drug use. African Americans are disproportionately represented among imprisoned drug offenders. The War on Drugs policy has criminalized drug addiction and resulted in mass incarceration for disadvantaged populations.

......

Since 1994, the disparity between white and non white prisoners as a percentage of the total prison population has widened dramatically. State prison incarceration rates for African Americans for drug law violations are almost 20 times those of whites and more than double those of Hispanics.(4) Although whites account for 69% of drug offense arrestee?s and blacks 29%, blacks are disproportionately convicted and comprise 48% of the U.S. prison population, while they are only 12.5% of the general population.(5) From 1990 to 1994, incarceration for drug offenses accounted for 60% of the increase in the black population in state prisons and 91% of the increase in Federal prisons.

........

Much of the disparity in incarceration rates can be attributed to the insidious inequality of the Mandatory Minimum Sentences (MMS) passed by Congress in 1986. Federal Mandatory Minimum Sentences are determined solely by the weight of the drug, or the presence of a firearm during a felony offense. The prisoner must serve 85% of this sentence, and there is no parole available. A judge must impose the sentence, regardless of the defendant?s role in the offense, his likelihood of rehabilitation or any other mitigating factors. Possession of 5.01 grams of crack is subject to a mandatory minimum of five years, while it takes 100 times more cocaine in powder form to receive the same MMS, despite the fact that the two drugs are similar in chemistry and physiological effects. As it happens, crack is predominately used by blacks, while powder is often used by whites.

watch first, post later

http://www.tv-links.co.uk/show.do/9/5527

 

[K e r b e r o s]

The War on Drugs policy has criminalized drug addiction and resulted in mass incarceration for disadvantaged populations.

I'm temporarly going to take on the role of ignorance, best personified by the species, Struthio camelus, aka the, "Ostrich".

I refuse to believe these people are disadvantaged when they're exists the same Freedom of Choice and Information between us.

THUMP!

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

Conspiracy! CIA does not like black people.

 

[Absinthe]

I'm temporarly going to take on the role of ignorance, best personified by the species, Struthio camelus, aka the, "Ostrich".

I refuse to believe these people are disadvantaged when they're exists the same Freedom of Choice and Information between us.

THUMP!

The fundamental question that should be asked is if fucking yourself up is worthy of incarceration.

Alcoholics can get treatment and support groups. I fail to see why the same cannot be offered to abusers of other drugs. Even if such substances do not belong on the free market (something which should be debated on a per-drug basis), imprisoning offenders is just heartless, cruel, and a major overreaction to a legitimate problem. While taking such drugs to begin with is a matter of individual choice, many people do find themselves on slopes to regretful and unsatisfactory states.

Such people should be given help, not punishment. And in sub-cultures where drug use and trade are heavily prominent, I think it's unrealistic to expect willpower to prevail in all cases. People are deserving of second chances, especially since getting yourself involved with drugs is a victimless crime outside of one's self. It's also true that harsher sentences exist for crack than cocaine, even though both are essentially the same substances using different forms of intake. Why? It's no secret that cocaine is a far more popular drug among financially successful white people and crack is far more popular among blacks. A lot of people may not view this kind of drug law enforcement from a racial paradigm, but it has undeniable roots in such prejudices.

Freedom of choice certainly exists, but information? I disagree. There is very little honest, official drug information that exists. It's really only thanks to the internet and higher education that the full, vile history behind drug prohibition can be looked at and analyzed in is entire, disgusting glory. Those venues of dialogue are not available to everybody for financial reasons and otherwise. I guarantee that if objective, widely-distributed drug information that didn't rely on fearmongering and circular reasoning from a legal standpoint existed, you'd get a lot more informed decisions regarding drugs and consequently a lot less abuse.

Personal tangent: I found school programs such as DARE to be utter failures in retrospect. They were propaganda courses full of cartoon characters and demonizations. Despite the very real fear of drugs it put into me at the time, I always saw it as a bunch of very superficial arguments on some level. What's more, in a way it actually got me more interested in drugs. For every horror story that was told, I found myself thinking "Damn. Lick a stamp and watch spiders grow from your walls? Sign me up!". And I don't see why not. Drugs are fascinating in their capabilities and it's only natural for people to be curious and willing to experiment. Despite whatever some anti-drug rhetoric might say, you can get a lot higher with drugs than without them. I think anybody with an interest in the human psyche and the nature of perception has to try mind-altering substances at least once to truly appreciate the intricacies and nuances of the human experience.

 

[tehsolace]

*cia agent sprinkles crack on the dead black person*

 

[Qonfused]

Must be racism.

 

[Stigmata]

I'd say part racism, part just the general disadvantaged state of blacks, and part urban culture that glamorizes drug use and crime.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

I fail to see why the same cannot be offered to abusers of other drugs.

It is widely offered by many organizations. Maybe you have just not heard of them because they are confidential? There is in/out patient, short and long term care for kids teens and adults. Outpatient is mostly for self-admitting adults though.

Personal tangent: I found school programs such as DARE to be utter failures in retrospect.

Worked for me. I remember in particular a cartoon of Disney's Pinnochio, and he sniffed glue and had a great time I think, but it ended badly. DARE might not work for everyone but it's intention are pure and good. Family involvement is in my opinion a stronger factor in young people's decisions to abuse.

 

[Absinthe]

It is widely offered by many organizations. Maybe you have just not heard of them because they are confidential? There is in/out patient, short and long term care for kids teens and adults. Outpatient is mostly for self-admitting adults though.

Of course they exist. But their utilization is dwarfed by the amount of times where incarceration takes place instead.

I'm also of the opinion that a lot of these support groups are frauds. Life is filled with people who took up counseling only because the alternative was prison time. Not just abusers. We're talking common potheads and smoke on a semi-regular basis. And a lot of them also dispense misinformation about drugs as a way of "scaring off" users.

Worked for me. I remember in particular a cartoon of Disney's Pinnochio, and he sniffed glue and had a great time I think, but it ended badly. DARE might not work for everyone but it's intention are pure and good. Family involvement is in my opinion a stronger factor in young people's decisions to abuse.

I think the quality of DARE's "pure and good" intentions are up for debate. If their goal is to be one-sided and freak out kids with oooh scary images of drug users, then I can do without that kind benevolence. This isn't just an issue of honesty and morality, but also practicality. If people being brought up with these kinds of programs find them to be deceptive, then what's going to keep them from thumbing their noses at information provided by other figures of authority? It's sort of like crying wolf.

 

[No Limit]

Must be racism.

Our entire drug policy was established on racism, so yes, it is racism.

I haven't had the time to watch the video yet, hope to be able to later today when Im off work.

 

[Stigmata]

Worked for me. I remember in particular a cartoon of Disney's Pinnochio, and he sniffed glue and had a great time I think, but it ended badly. DARE might not work for everyone but it's intention are pure and good. Family involvement is in my opinion a stronger factor in young people's decisions to abuse.

DARE is an alarmist propaganda machine. It has good intentions on the surface, but it's filled with so many inaccuracies and stupid hypotheses that it's almost not even worth listening to.

Stupid shit like "Marijuana is highly dangerous and addictive", for example.

 

[co05]

Mmm, makes me glad I picked up an eighth yesterday.

 

[No Limit]

DARE is an alarmist propaganda machine. It has good intentions on the surface, but it's filled with so many inaccuracies and stupid hypotheses that it's almost not even worth listening to.

Stupid shit like "Marijuana is highly dangerous and addictive", for example.

Totally agree with you about dare, agree with you that its not dangerous to anyone but yourself, but it is addictive. The addiction doesn't seem to be physical but ask any long time pot head about how many times they have tried to quit but simply can't.

 

[Stigmata]

Totally agree with you about dare, agree with you that its not dangerous to anyone but yourself, but it is addictive. The addiction doesn't seem to be physical but ask any long time pot head about how many times they have tried to quit but simply can't.

Well to be fair, you'll be unable to quit almost anything if you do it for long enough.

To me, marijuana is addicting in the same way that sex and videogames are addicting. I don't ever "need" to play videogames or have sex, but they're both entertaining and there aren't many reasons not to

 

[No Limit]

and there aren't many reasons not to

Yeah, until you have a job and a family to take care of. Video games wont make you lose your job, failing a drug test will.

 

[Stigmata]

And until I have a job where I get random drug testing, I will continue to smoke marijuana on occasion.

:|

 

[No Limit]

And until I have a job where I get random drug testing, I will continue to smoke marijuana on occasion.

:|

Do so if you please. I'm just stating the facts here, once you have to quit its not as easy as it sounds.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

I think the quality of DARE's "pure and good" intentions are up for debate. If their goal is to be one-sided and freak out kids with oooh scary images of drug users, then I can do without that kind benevolence. This isn't just an issue of honesty and morality, but also practicality. If people being brought up with these kinds of programs find them to be deceptive, then what's going to keep them from thumbing their noses at information provided by other figures of authority? It's sort of like crying wolf.

DARE is an alarmist propaganda machine. It has good intentions on the surface, but it's filled with so many inaccuracies and stupid hypotheses that it's almost not even worth listening to.

Stupid shit like "Marijuana is highly dangerous and addictive", for example.

Well, my DARE "education" was in the 5th grade. I have to say no matter how it was presented there is no way in hell I would have truely understood any of it other than "drugs bad". Unless you were really in tune with such things and around people who dealt with it there is no better option than propaganda. If it doesn't work for you you probably had your mind made up already. At that age, you must be in a bad situation to have a blase attitude towards drug abuse.
If anything I have to say it was a fun program. Maybe this is another example of how my particular school was ahead of the curve compared to the rest of the US, but I have no reason not to suport this program.

There is really not enough of a benefit from using drugs to care about what reasons kids avoid them, be it trickery or truth. Once a child is old enough to find out for themself they will have already made their decision.

 

[SAJ]

Do so if you please. I'm just stating the facts here, once you have to quit its not as easy as it sounds.

In my personal experience, that's not the case. Giving up dope is the easy part (boring for a while, but easy) the hard part is giving up the tobacco that you have become addicted to because you put it in your joints for five years.
Didn't smoke tobacco before I smoked weed/hash, but was left with a ten year nicotene addiction afterwards.


Moral of the story ; don't do drugs kids, it just ain't worth it.

... or you could just leave out the tobacco.

 

[co05]

... or you could just leave out the tobacco.

Great moral!

 

[Absinthe]

Well, my DARE "education" was in the 5th grade. I have to say no matter how it was presented there is no way in hell I would have truely understood any of it other than "drugs bad". Unless you were really in tune with such things and around people who dealt with it there is no better option than propaganda. If it doesn't work for you you probably had your mind made up already. At that age, you must be in a bad situation to have a blase attitude towards drug abuse.

No offense, but I don't think you're in any position to comment on what my situation was back then. So I'd stay off of that.

If anything I have to say it was a fun program. Maybe this is another example of how my particular school was ahead of the curve compared to the rest of the US, but I have no reason not to suport this program.

I'm sure book burning is a fun activity too.

I'm all for making education more fun and appealing if that's what it takes for children to become more involved in it. But not at the expense of accuracy and honesty. DARE does nothing but perpetuate the kind of ignorant thinking that fuel's America's War on Drugs.

There is really not enough of a benefit from using drugs to care about what reasons kids avoid them, be it trickery or truth. Once a child is old enough to find out for themself they will have already made their decision.

Who are you to say what benefit I or anybody else gets from drugs? And you seem to be missing my point. Programs like DARE and the rest of the similar-minded anti-drug rhetoric only accomplishes making kids ignorant. So when they are of the age to make a decision regarding drugs, you either directly or indirectly contribute to the culture of irrational fear regarding drugs, or you foray into the drug culture on second-hand, hit and miss, unofficial information. That's when you get kids killing themselves with overdoses and mixing, or simply being plain unprepared for what they're getting themselves into.

Lying about drugs, even with the noblest of goals, only results in a lose/lose situation. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Administrators of the DARE program have tried to suppress unfavorable research by the U.S. Bureau of Justice Assistance and the Research Triangle Institute (RTI) that found that "DARE simply didn't work". A Federal judge ruled that DARE had sought to "suppress scientific research" critical of its program and had "attempted to silence researchers at the Research Triangle Institute," according to editors at the American Journal of Public Health and producers at Dateline NBC. [10][11] Some reporters, like those at Rolling Stone magazine, who have written negative stories on DARE have claimed that they were the victims of harassment and intimidation as a result. [12] Critics such as Students for Sensible Drug Policy, DRCNet, and Drugsense, have exposed the DARE program for teaching misleading and inaccurate information about drugs and drug use.

- Wikipedia

DARE is an ineffective cash cow.

 

[TechnoHippyChic]

Yeah, until you have a job and a family to take care of. Video games wont make you lose your job, failing a drug test will.

Which highlights the absurdity of having such a requirement.

 

[No Limit]

Which highlights the absurdity of having such a requirement.

Sure, but that's not my point.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

No offense, but I don't think you're in any position to comment on what my situation was back then. So I'd stay off of that.
Way to take things personally, as usual.

I'm sure book burning is a fun activity too.
I don't think you are in any position to comment on what my program was like back then.

I'm all for making education more fun and appealing if that's what it takes for children to become more involved in it. But not at the expense of accuracy and honesty. DARE does nothing but perpetuate the kind of ignorant thinking that fuel's America's War on Drugs.
I never said it was a good program outside of my own experience. I have already heard that this. You just can't say that it does not work, because it does.

Who are you to say what benefit I or anybody else gets from drugs?
It's my own opinion. Who are you to ask who I am to say?

And you seem to be missing my point. Programs like DARE and the rest of the similar-minded anti-drug rhetoric only accomplishes making kids ignorant. So when they are of the age to make a decision regarding drugs, you either directly or indirectly contribute to the culture of irrational fear regarding drugs, or you foray into the drug culture on second-hand, hit and miss, unofficial information. That's when you get kids killing themselves with overdoses and mixing, or simply being plain unprepared for what they're getting themselves into.
I think considering DEATH could be what they are getting in to, and I'm sure someone has told them that, I am also sure that what a kid knows has almost nothing to do with whether he will start or not. In fact, the flat out truth I think presents a greater risk of making abuse seem appealing.

Lying about drugs, even with the noblest of goals, only results in a lose/lose situation. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
I still do not believe I was ever lied to by the officers and their propaganda, but like I said I was so young I don't even remember any of it. The one thing I retained was a strong anti-drug attitude and that's all should matter to anyone.

-

 

[Absinthe]

Way to take things personally, as usual.

You made a direct comment on my personal state, which you certainly have no qualifications for doing so. Excuse my temper if it inflamed somewhat due to your presumptuous attitude.

I don't think you are in any position to comment on what my program was like back then.

If you program is what you described it as to me (propaganda), then yeah. I kinda am.

It's my own opinion. Who are you to ask who I am to say?

Now you're just getting pedantic and bogging yourself down in semantics.

I am also sure that what a kid knows has almost nothing to do with whether he will start or not. In fact, the flat out truth I think presents a greater risk of making abuse seem appealing.

As I pointed out, you are not saving anybody from DEATH when you teach them lies and misinformation. You cheapen the value of authority in general. If you breed people into being cynical of information handed down by frauds like DARE, then you develop a very real risk of such people ignoring anything that may be valid in the future. Conscious action is based on knowledge. You are advocating the forcing of non-factual information into children and you somehow think it will just turn out hunky-dory?

I'd rather have children brought up in an atmosphere of honesty, "white lies" aside. Life ain't a bed of roses.

I still do not believe I was ever lied to by the officers and their propaganda, but like I said I was so young I don't even remember any of it. The one thing I retained was a strong anti-drug attitude and that's all should matter to anyone.

So, you don't remember much of the program, but you're pretty sure it was just propaganda, and that's been the basis for your anti-drug attitude.

Sounds rational to me.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Do so if you please. I'm just stating the facts here, once you have to quit its not as easy as it sounds.

bullocks.. :|

I'm going to have to agree with Absinthe's arguments against programs like DARE, all I remember from such programs are sitting on the edge of my seat and laughing at the bullshit 'lessons' they had. Honestly I think drug education should be taught by primary educators, in an honest fashion the same way sexual education is handled. I think preaching against anything at that age simply makes you want to go out and do it, in fact that's just proven psychology.

The U.S. Govt. approach to drugs is so ass backwards it's not even funny. Our prisons are packed with addicts (whom stand to gain nothing from prison time). If our education system keeps educating with this black and white bullshit that drugs kill, and by giving out misguided diluted advice I don't see the problem getting any better either. Would also be nice to see international policy agree with education policy, seeing as, if we stand to benefit - we will look the other way and even arm drug warlords in struggling countries.

 

[co05]

Absinthe has it pretty good.

I remember my DARE classes. A police officer came in with booklets and what not telling us the dangers of drugs. "Pot (or insert drug here) will greatly harm your memory, one time is enough to get addicted forever, smoking one joint is like smoking an entire pack of cigarettes, etc."

Usually these lessons were presented to us in a bullshit cartoon where one of the character's head explodes because he did drugs. I did not learn anything factual. Hell, I barely remember what exactly was said, but I did walk away being scared as **** to take drugs. I thought "One touch of marijuana is going to turn me into an addict for life."

I, of course, now know that that isn't true, but this is the shit they're telling kids? It's just a scare tactic. What does scaring them accomplish? They need to KNOW what's going on and what risks are involved. They need to be TAUGHT facts about drugs. Should they ever get into such a situation, provided they are well educated as to the dangers of drugs, they will be able to make an informed, logical decision. We can't have people telling them that drugs are simply bad. We need to explain factually why they are bad (and just stop lying about pot. Really, it's getting old).

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

You made a direct comment on my personal state, which you certainly have no qualifications for doing so. Excuse my temper if it inflamed somewhat due to your presumptuous attitude.

I did not make a direct comment on your personal state. You interpret my use of the word "you" and applied it to yourself but if you pay very careful attention to the grammar you'll see I was not talking to you in this respect, which should be obvious since I quote two different people's statements for a single reply.

If you program is what you described it as to me (propaganda), then yeah. I kinda am.

I merely agreed with the term proaganda because I believe that is what the program may be. Even so, there is no reason at all for you to be comparing my harmless child experience with DARE to bonfire book burning.

Now you're just getting pedantic and bogging yourself down in semantics.

Turnabout is fair play and I have as much right to say such a thing as you do to question what I say.

As I pointed out, you are not saving anybody from DEATH when you teach them lies and misinformation. You cheapen the value of authority in general. If you breed people into being cynical of information handed down by frauds like DARE, then you develop a very real risk of such people ignoring anything that may be valid in the future. Conscious action is based on knowledge. You are advocating the forcing of non-factual information into children and you somehow think it will just turn out hunky-dory?

There are many, many erroneus assumptions here. Firstly, no one here can quanitfy the "lies" and "misinformation". DARE is not successful you say, so it must not be influential, so how can anyone be "bred" to be cynical from it? Even, DARE alone cannot be held resopnsible for a persons attitude on any given matter, ESPECIALLY if that person has prior diserspect for authoritative figures and is at risk for abuse. I am NOT "advocating" anything of the sort. "Forcing" is a very strong, misleading word here, and again, to what extent is the information non-factual? The program is not about anything turning out any particular wat. It's about Drug Abuse Resistance. Do you remember how to just say no? I do remember singing a song at the end of the program, Dare to keep your kids off drugs, dare to be a hero. Teaching us to sing really makes us cynical.

So, you don't remember much of the program, but you're pretty sure it was just propaganda, and that's been the basis for your anti-drug attitude.

Sounds rational to me.

Again I am merely agreeing that it may have been propaganda, because what else would it be to a pre teen? But you are twistingmy words here as you usualy do. The propaganda is not the basis of anything for me. This is true based on the fact I don't remember it. I got the overall message as I'm sure many many other kids have. Say no to drugs. And I always have said no when presented them by my dear friends. I have my own reasons. Two of my family members were drug addicts and have died as a result. I don't need anyone to tell how to resist them. As I said before, after a thorough amount of actual drug education I have decided there is no benefit to using them.

-

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

We can't have people telling them that drugs are simply bad. We need to explain factually why they are bad.

Why? is it important like math or science, to take up school hours lecturing and hitting all the points of what makes a downer and psychedelic drug different? How about we tell them the ingredients and line out where they come from and show them a chart of average prices over the past 20 years.
"Hey kids, today we're going to learn about marijuana. It's quite the versatile plant. It looks like this *shows a picture* and is generally smoked, but can be eaten and baked into brownies. Yum! Let's look at all the devices we can use to smoke it.*

That's option one. Or maybe we can just deluge them with a list of facts about it's contents and affects. Let's talk about parts of the brain they have not yet even heard of, much less can pronounce. Maybe go into a dialogue over it's acclaims and criticisms.

Do you forget the age of the kids they are trying to reach? If you get too indepth you'll just bore them into a sleepy stupor. That doesn't mean you can't use facts, but it does require a little more color and maybe theatrical effort. There needs to be elevel of involvement that can avoid making any street drug seem interesting.
I don't think you should be worrying about letting them make an "imformed decision" about whether to use considering it's illegal, and you'd basically be enabling them to start into a bahavior that could potentially be destructive to many people. The way things are with the internet the average kid is going to know a lot more about uncontrolled substances than I ever did at that age. Nobody I knew back then had this much access to data. Times really are changed. I'm not saying that information needs to be controlled, but a consevative bias on the issue can be good for the kids. When they become teens there is a strong chance it won't even matter. I don't see the point in fighting the program.

 

[Gunner]

DARE is an alarmist propaganda machine. It has good intentions on the surface, but it's filled with so many inaccuracies and stupid hypotheses that it's almost not even worth listening to.

Hey they gave me a free tshirt which became extremely kitsch ten years later.

 

[Absinthe]

I did not make a direct comment on your personal state. You interpret my use of the word "you" and applied it to yourself but if you pay very careful attention to the grammar you'll see I was not talking to you in this respect, which should be obvious since I quote two different people's statements for a single reply.

If you say that somebody had to be in a bad state to have a blase position on drugs, and I had just previously expressed such a position, then I don't see how you are not making a comment on my personal state, as if I was suffering some kind of abuse at the time. But fair enough. My apologies for going on the attack like that.

When I talk about the success of DARE, I am referring specifically for its ability to achieve the goals that are set forth in its very title: Drug awareness and drug resistance. In the absence of supplying objective information regarding drugs, it fails the former goal. Because of that, it is inherently flawed in its methods for teaching resistance. "Just say no" may be a very simple and agreeable motto against peer pressure, but the host of other inaccuracies that are tied with it make teenagers ill-equipped to make honest, rational decisions when children are faced with the choice of taking drugs later in life, which many do. My entire point about cynicism is that if programs such as DARE cannot be trusted to supply honest information about drugs, then they are more likely to be ignored and discounted in the cases where they are actually pointing out valid dangers and concerns. If children cannot discern the few nuggets of truth from the propaganda, then they are at risk for ignoring or accepting the program in its entirety. Both can have very dire consequences, if not for yourself then for others.

Drug education does not need to be entirely comprehensive at a young age, just like neither history or mathematics are expected to be. But at the very least, there should be an attempt at being impartial and objective.

I expect Math courses to teach proper math.
I expect Science courses to teach honest science instead of pseudoscience.
I expect History classes to present history objectively instead of revisionism or the teacher's own particular slant on the matter.
I expect drug education programs to educate. Not try to scare kids into a position through dishonest means.

We expect education in all other areas to meet a certain standard in factual accuracy and objectivity. I don't know why you're making an exception for DARE. You may be right that children may be more likely to use drugs in the absence of these scare tactics, but then I think that's where parental responsibility comes into play. The short-term payoff of keeping youngsters off of mind-altering substances still results in long-term ignorance, which I think is far more pervasive and dangerous.

 

[Tyguy]

Why not take these drug offenders and forcibly put them into a clinic to get sober, instead of behind bars.....at least they are being helped instead of locked up like they shot someone....

I think drug law violations should be fines on the first offense. (Keep in mind i think some drugs should be legal) Harsher penalties for individuals who are driving under the influence. Those are the people that should be locked up, not crack head who cant kick the shit.

Just a thought.