Was the Hacker right?

[ApocalypseNow]

You all remember the news of a HL2 Alpha being leaked right?

Anyways, when the Hacker released the Hl2 Alpha on the internet, he also said that when he was on the VAVLe network that this "Hl2 Alpha" was the only thing that VALVe had and this was the only progress that they had made on the title...

Another strange thing that adds evidence the Hackers statement was that in the console of the Hl2 beta, it said that it was a late september build!

Back when he said that everyone thought that it was a pure bullshit statement...

But nowing seeing how VALVe has been acting lately with them saying that, I think there is more truth to the hackers statemeants then thought before...

 

[A2597]

then explain why the maps seen as final in movies, are unfinished in the alpha....

counsol data and dates can easily be hacked man. He Did have to compile it, after all....

 

[Mr-Fusion]

We'd have to know when he started hacking and downloading the stuff. If it was months before E3 (May) the statement "This is all they had" may be true. Though i guess that September console thing rules that out.

If it was after May "This is all they had" is false because the leak has less stuff than the E3 demo that was displayed...at...E3.

In conclusion. I have NFI.

 

[Pauly]

thats what i was thinking tooo!! very weird...hmmm maybe....but i dont think soo...because the E3 presentation was better than the stolen build

 

[Ahnteis]

There's plenty of evidence that the stolen build was not the latest complete build.

 

[Letters]

I hope they didn't work for five years and that's all they had...

 

[Spiffae]

I hope they didn't work for five years and that's all they had...

um, let's not forget they they built an entire ENGINE... that can take far more than 5 years. to put a quality game on top of that? I can see that taking a less experienced team even longer. Especially with ever changing tech.

 

[Night-Hawk[Qc]]

Yes, the hacker was right.

 

[Brian Damage]

Heck no.

 

[Cutey_Kaite]

damn, summer so far away it seems

 

[Top Secret]

damn, summer so far away it seems

That's because it is.

 

[chu]

Not for me I have a time machine...it's called a coma.

/chu runs into wall head first.....*thud*

Sea yu gyz inn thuh fyootcher!!!!

 

[Pitbul]

um, let's not forget they they built an entire ENGINE... that can take far more than 5 years. to put a quality game on top of that? I can see that taking a less experienced team even longer. Especially with ever changing tech.

get off their nuts moron. their have been plenty of decent engines built and the game finished in less the 5 years. some even in three. the mere fact they took a WHOLE 5 years better mean something because if this game isn't the greatest thing since slice bread im gonna be disappionted from anything less.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

then explain why the maps seen as final in movies, are unfinished in the alpha....

counsol data and dates can easily be hacked man. He Did have to compile it, after all....

hes right.. and since that can be done so easily.. its pretty hard to believe anything the hacker says.. besides, hes a hacker, what makes u think he wouldn't lie about it? if he can hack, he can lie as well.

 

[Cutey_Kaite]

That's because it is.

Oh yea :thumbs:

 

[famas_man]

Not for me I have a time machine...it's called a coma.

/chu runs into wall head first.....*thud*

Sea yu gyz inn thuh fyootcher!!!!

Im with Chu. *slams head in refridgerator door* wake me up when the sdk comes.

 

[Zakat]

The Alpha dates back to 2002, the leaker changed the codes for the game so it said September 2003 when it acctually was 2002.

Damn ****ing leaker!

 

[el Chi]

If it WAS the latest build then WHY would Valve have said so confidently: "Septempber 30th" ? Yes I know that they missed that date, but they wouldn't have said it if all they had was what was in the leaked alpha, would they? He's a lying arse.

 

[ApocalypseNow]

The Alpha dates back to 2002, the leaker changed the codes for the game so it said September 2003 when it acctually was 2002.

Damn ****ing leaker!

Zakat where'd you hear this from? Sound interesting...

 

[BigBoss9]

first of all - where from do you know that it was the real hacker who posted this? it might be a 10 year old kid who has nothing to do in life.
but lets assume it was the hacker - even so, you probably never know the truth...why? bcz there isnt enoght data to relay on and the only thing we can do is to speculate what actually have happened...

now - i think that there is three posibilies:
1. the hacker did tell the truth. that means that the game was quite far from being finished which also means that VALVE was laying all the way about the holiday realse date. but why?

2. the hacker lied. maybe he has something personal against VALVE? maybe he trys to make VALVE put out off biz....who knows?

3. it wasnt the hacker. it was someone else.

my personal opinion - the hacker did tell the truth. just not the whole truth.
ill explain - the hacker broke into VALVEs network and stole the alpha game. now - after he (the hacker) looked at what exactly he stole he thinks that he stole everything they had - but he didnt think about something i did...
from where can he know that Valve didnt transfer some data from the network to other network or just to other pc's that arent connected to the internet?

another very interesting point - i think that the hacker said something about the fact that the AI in the game was far from completeion...maybe the code writters had it (the AI engien or the AI source code) on their won pc's?

in short - the hacker count know him self if what he stole is the up to date version of the game...the only one who knows the whole truth is Valve.


i hope you enjoed reading my reaply - if you found any mistakes in it - please inform me about it.

 

[SnakeX]

first of all - where from do you know that it was the real hacker who posted this? it might be a 10 year old kid who has nothing to do in life.
but lets assume it was the hacker - even so, you probably never know the truth...why? bcz there isnt enoght data to relay on and the only thing we can do is to speculate what actually have happened...

now - i think that there is three posibilies:
1. the hacker did tell the truth. that means that the game was quite far from being finished which also means that VALVE was laying all the way about the holiday realse date. but why?

2. the hacker lied. maybe he has something personal against VALVE? maybe he trys to make VALVE put out off biz....who knows?

3. it wasnt the hacker. it was someone else.

my personal opinion - the hacker did tell the truth. just not the whole truth.
ill explain - the hacker broke into VALVEs network and stole the alpha game. now - after he (the hacker) looked at what exactly he stole he thinks that he stole everything they had - but he didnt think about something i did...
from where can he know that Valve didnt transfer some data from the network to other network or just to other pc's that arent connected to the internet?

another very interesting point - i think that the hacker said something about the fact that the AI in the game was far from completeion...maybe the code writters had it (the AI engien or the AI source code) on their won pc's?

in short - the hacker count know him self if what he stole is the up to date version of the game...the only one who knows the whole truth is Valve.


i hope you enjoed reading my reaply - if you found any mistakes in it - please inform me about it.

Sounds interesting BigBoss... Hmm.. i was in the same idea about the Hacker and that he didnt get all the game stuff... :dork:

 

[vacs]

The Alpha dates back to 2002, the leaker changed the codes for the game so it said September 2003 when it acctually was 2002.

Damn ****ing leaker!

too bad that Gabe himself stated they were hacked beginning September 2003 and not sometime in 2002

try harder next time Zakat!

 

[Brian Damage]

Could have been an old build floating around for reference...

 

[vacs]

Could have been an old build floating around for reference...

for reference?

what are you talking about? Old builds are backed up and stored away and not put on a PC which is connected to the internet, geez

 

[Shuzer]

The computer that was broken into wasn't technically part of VALVe's onsite campus, it was however, part of their network (basing this on those IRC logs from that HL2 source leak site.. gtwy, or whatever. No way to tell if it's true, but it sounds logical enough). The hacker went through it and further infiltrated the network by going through the other computer(s). Even if they had access to one system on VALVe's network, they had access to ALL the systems, regardless if only the one broken into was hooked up to the internet and the rest weren't.

I'd be willing to bet the hacker ended up getting into a backup drive and jacking those files. That would also explain why they got an old build of Condition Zero, as opposed to Ritual's latest build.

 

[vacs]

I'd be willing to bet the hacker ended up getting into a backup drive and jacking those files. That would also explain why they got an old build of Condition Zero, as opposed to Ritual's latest build.

old build of CZ?

Stop making things up to make look the source code theft less important than it is. Valve fanboys are really even worse than nvidiots.

 

[ray_MAN]

Vacs, they did steal the old build of CZ. As well as a messed up version of CS in Source.

 

[Kadayi]

With reference to the date, the game code may of been current at September 2003, but the build data is far less complete than the build shown at E3. Whatever data the Hacker obtained certainly predates E3 in either one or both areas, build and or/Code.

I think that although Valve had a shippable product at September, they had a serious team pow-wow like they did with the original Half -Life and opted to invest some more time in it refining it until they were satisfied. I think the hacking was just another argument to add to that decision, as well might of been the steam difficulties. The best way in which to fight against hacks is through counter measures as they arise. If you want to find a hole in your tyre, you fill it with water and watch for leaks to find out where it needs attention.

 

[CrazyHarij]

Yah.. This is so f**king bad. I can't believe this, we were supposed to get the game back in good ol' 9/30 2003, now it's more like 9/30 2004. WTF is happening over there? Did some dude accidently put all their comps on fire? Or slip on the 'Delete Folder' button when having the entire HL2 development folder selected?

 

[Shuzer]

old build of CZ?

Stop making things up to make look the source code theft less important than it is. Valve fanboys are really even worse than nvidiots.

Yes, old build of CZ. I used to visit Ritualistic's forums every day. The Ritual team would stop in and talk to the community all the time. There were 2 "main" versions Ritual gave to VALVe.

The one that was getting "pre-gold" reviews, which got terrible marks, which is the community got ahold of via anon. This was an old build, I forget the exact date, but it certainly wasn't Ritual's final, polished work.

The other version was, as Castle of Ritual Entertainment put it, sent to VALVe, but will never see the light of day. Sure, we'll get it in the deleted scenes, but that's not the entire game.


Now please, don't accuse me of making stuff up, nor accuse me of being a fanboy. That's needless flaming. I said what I said because what I said was true.

 

[Zakat]

too bad that Gabe himself stated they were hacked beginning September 2003 and not sometime in 2002

try harder next time Zakat!

Well, I heard this from one of the OPs in the HalfLife2.Net IRC channel a while back.

Also, as previously said, some developers keep older builds for reference.

You're getting on my nerves

 

[Edcrab]

Inclined to agree with the general consensus and Kadayi Polokov in particular. I still reckon that although the leak didn't cause the delay, it may well have contributed to its sheer magnitude.

E3 and all the resultant media seem to prove the hacker was talking out of his arse (or someone elses). Wouldn't believe him anyway- hell, despite what Fragmaster thinks I still doubt if Anon Leaker was the actual guy.

 

[PvtRyan]

I can totally see how a criminal who hacks computers, steals code which delayed the game (maybe not the cause of the whole delay, but certainly a month or two) is more believeable than Valve.

The console saying '4 days until september 30th' (or something in that area) doesn't mean anything. It could mean the hacker changed the date, it could mean the game runs on an up to date compiled engine with out of date content. And hell, why would Valve say 'x days till september 30th' if this was all they had? What's the point behind that when they knew they weren't gonna make it eh?

And why is a lot of E3 stuff missing while it's clearly there in the E3 video's? Why isn't there any HDR or character bumpmapping? Why does the engine ask for revision 3x of a model, while the latest model in the leak is only revision 1x? Why does the engine report missing scripts and AI?
Why would Valve even come forward with HL2 at E3 2003 when they knew 9/30 was a bogus date? Remember, the game was then still a complete secret, and they could have kept it secret until E3 2004, they could have just told us nothing this year and we'd all be surprised in may 2004 when HL2 was suddenly revealed with a release in july.

 

[Cutey_Kaite]

The hackor was right about nothing, nothing i tells you *shakes fist*

 

[Baldrick]

No, the hacker wasn't right, just look at the e3 version. It is a damn lot more updated, i have seen.... screenshots of the leaked half-life, as im sure everyone else has.
The errors that appear on the screenshots dont appear anywhere in the movies.
Half-life 2 will definatly be worth the wait.
I think the hacker was just trying to decrease the hype behind half-life 2. For what reason, i don't know, but i am 100% sure that he stole an outdated release.
He could of even gone 'oh no, i stole the 2002 september release instead of the 2003 one'
So what would he do?
Change something, no one would be as interested in the outdated half-life 2 game.
I think that the hacker definatly changed something.

 

[Dedalus]

The best way in which to fight against hacks is through counter measures as they arise. If you want to find a hole in your tyre, you fill it with water and watch for leaks to find out where it needs attention.

that's interesting. do you think they purposely left that build on a potentially weak machine?

i don't think that build was 'all they had'. the hacker may be good at hacking, but by god he's a dumb fellow isn't he? it wreaks of smearing and mud slinging. like a few people have said before me, the build that was leaked and the build shown at E3 were completely different. it doesn't seem to make sense that the alpha build would be the culmination of 5 years work, with an incomplete set of AI routines, dodgy graphical issues, and over half the features missing. it makes me think that this hacker is a child or is at least childish. he steals something from a machine at valve, sees something incomplete and proclaims it to be all that was on valve's network. (EDIT: i also remember reading that he even admitted that what he had was incomplete, and various people who saw the source verified it as being incomplete.) you think the hacker is going to admit he couldn't hack into the upper echelons of Valve's network and obtain the real build? no his ego is too fragile for that.

so yeah, another attention seeking kid talking out of his arse yet again.

 

[mbrithoms]

OF COURSE IT WAS ALL THEY HAD!

ffs!!! how dumb can you get, if it wasnt true that would mean he would have stolen it before May and it would have comeout before then, Valve said the attacks were happening in SEPTEMBER, ergo it was the latest build

 

[Brian Damage]

mrbrithoms, did you even read all the reasoning in this thread?

And, vacs, yes. Old builds kept for reference. Like I myself do when programming.

 

[Kadayi]

that's interesting. do you think they purposely left that build on a potentially weak machine?

I was referring to the 'shoring up' process of the source code itself, rather than the actual 'beta' hack. There is only so much, speculation you can do with regard to potential exploits/weaknesses of a system. Ultimately you just have to let it roll and then assess how well it does in the real world, and carry out patching once it is in the field (so to speak).

 

[The Dark Ange]

I find it interesting that because the maps were not loading correctly, you all jump to the conclusion that they weren't as "updated" as the e3 maps. The actual truth being that the maps were all compiled for an earlier build of the engine and it was stolen before they were ported over to the new build.
My opinion is that the "hacker" wasn't lying for I have seen no reason to not believe him/her. Valve is still having PR problems(lying) and there were many dates that, although could of been easily modified, supported his claims.