What about Vista? >_>

[DEATHMASTER]

Windows XP Pro costs like $300 NOW, what kind of prices are they thinking to charge for a brand new OS? It sounds like over $500 to me...I can't say I dislike the pirates about this; ridiculous pricing means pirate hunger (for software anyways)

 

[CptStern]

that's the retail version ..you can buy the oem version for less than half that ..oh and there will be upwards of 7 versions of vista released from cheap to expensive

 

[Cole]

Windows XP Pro costs like $300 NOW, what kind of prices are they thinking to charge for a brand new OS? It sounds like over $500 to me...I can't say I dislike the pirates about this; ridiculous pricing means pirate hunger (for software anyways)

Or it costs between $150 - $200.
Whoever is charging you that much is well ripping you off.

Vista will come in 6 flavors(I forget if that is including the European Versions that don't include Windows Media Player\Msn Messenger).

The highest end versions will allow for super tweaking for gamers to get the absolute most out of their system. That version shouldn't go past $200 - $350 and thats the absolute most high end version that will be released. That version would be for the people who have $3,000 to spend on a new computer. For most of us the simple $100 - $200 version will do wonders.

 

[Lucid]

An OS should cost the same as a new game >.> ($40/$50)

 

[^Ben]

Hahahahaha... oh wait, your being serious.. hahahahaha

 

[Gorgon]

dood, just get Vista professional C.O edition for free from blablabla sites.

did I mention its totally free ?? LOL pwnd!!!

 

[giant384]

An OS should cost the same as a new game >.> ($40/$50)

wow you are seriously kidding right? games dont take as much coding as and os does

 

[Cole]

Some of them...

Os'es have to be designed on a much deeper level. They need to develop an API, document every little thing on it, make it properly communicate with processors, give an API to allow programs to properly communicate with processors. Create an API thats flexible enough to allow drivers for damn near anything.
What goes into an OS is far more than what goes into a game. Most of the game stuff is all the time it takes to create models and things.

Now OS'es like: 98First Edition(Second Edition was great), ME($-50 it just sucked..), and 2000 I'd say could cost about that. Xp about 75 - 100, but Vista being a complete rewrite and offering more security, compatibility, and features for everyone, I'd price it between $100 - $300 depending on the version.

 

[Computer5k]

wow you are seriously kidding right? games dont take as much coding as and os does

More coding != higher price

Linux 2.6.15 has over 7 million lines of code

approximation made by using the Linux Kernel Swear Count, I'm sure theres a better way, but i'm too lazy

 

[Cole]

And Linux is under the GPL, Windows is not.

It requires alot more talent to make an OS than a game. It only takes 2 people to make one hell of an engine.(Offset Engine).
But it takes one hell of a large company or one hell of a large community or both to create an amazing OS.

 

[nutcrackr]

I'd switch to Linux in an instant if it had support for most of the games and programs I use. But it doesn't so I'm not moving anytime soon.

I really don't think Vista will be anything special, virtually no new features for the end user but a complete rewrite of the direct x stuff? Older games are said to run slower? Newer games won't be supported by windows xp? Bah, I'll probably upgrade to it but not after I've read some good opinions.

 

[Fliko]

That Vista topics belong in the Hardware & Software forum?

Vista's new features will most likely only be noticeable by developers, not the ordinary no nothing about computer user.

 

[JNightshade]

it's "know-nothing", Fliko

Anyway, I know I'll wait a while before getting Vista. Lord knows what bugs will lie dormant in it.

 

[Fliko]

"Know-Nothing" Fliko...
or a "Know-nothing" (Thread), Fliko?
I'm confused.

I don't know about you guys... but I'm getting Vista as soon as all games are compatible with it.

 

[Cole]

Lets see Nutcrackr,
+It takes advantage of graphics hardware
+3D Desktop
+64bit Applications
+DirectX 10
+It is informed that though emulated Xp games still run great
+Quick Search built in(Can find anything in an instant from start menu)
+Ability to Optimize hardware to give by far the most amazing performance(Most costly version), this can be done manually or done by Vista
+Start Menu is much more streamlined
+Better Document Explorer(You could have Graphics, Videos, Pictures, Text Files, Works Files and from an Icons view it would display whats in there)
+Taskbar Thumbnails that for applications and folders
+Flip 3D Alt Tab
+Better Administration System, similar to Linux(Asks for password)
+Comes with Windows Defender(Best Anti Spyware tool to date)
+Comes with a much better firewall
+With Instant search you don't need to remember where you placed your file, you can just type it in the start menu and watch it instantly appear.
+IE7 is limited to just enough power to go on the web(You can modify). For any program to install something or run something you need to type in the master password(Similar to linux), RSS feeds, up to Security Standards, Basically Firefox.
+Windows Sidebar You can put mini-gadgets on it such as various games, appliactions with support, windows media player(winamp and players will then give support most likely), msn messenger, weather information, news updates, traffic maps, Internet radio streams, and slide shows of online photo albums, and anything else people feel like adding onto it, works extremely well with widescreen monitors
+SuperFetch technology that while your using a program it will put off other programs that arn't needed out of memory, it keeps track of what programs you use the most, goes so far to keep track of it based on specific days, puts the programs you use the most infront of background tasks.
+External Memory Devices(Plug in that USB Device and more ram!)
+Takes advantage of new Hybrid Hard Drives
+Far Improved System Restore, much better System Backup, Volume Shadow Copies(incase you accidently delete something)
+More Seamless Network technology, Network Map, Wireless WPA2 support.
+Built in Speach Recognition, can go so far as to opening an application, finding a word, correcting a sentence
+Much better Remote Assistance.
+Better Auto-Updater, can Auto-Update even non important updates, when a program is in use that it's updating it can save applications data, close, update, restart application, scheduling and postponing updates
+Sync Center to manage all Syncing
+Ability to find and fix errors by itself
+Can tell you what programs are hogging system resources like virutal memory
+Works with the 360
+Vista is also built with Inter-Dependent Modules, Vista can be much more easily customized by 3rd party applications
+Better API's for Developers(Programs are less likely to crash), I\O Cancellation Support in Vista, Vista Restart Manager
+Much better Command Line Interface
+More load off of the CPU than XP, taking use of the graphics card. Wont affect games as well it wont be rendering all the background things while your playing games..
+WinFX which was a project since Windows 95 I believe. It has been in works for that long. Will also be released for XP, wont ship with Vista. Will be an update for Vista and Xp for free.
those are some of the features for Vista.
+Also .NET RULES! Vista will give more than enough support with this. Extremely Rapid Development of Applications, alot less errors and crashes. I love .net . Theres been already games with C# .Net. Of course thats slower than C++. Anyway .Net is sweet

Anyone thinking your going to need a high end video card to run Vista is mistaken:
For all the top level transparency and all the special effects your going to need:
Windows Vista Display Driver Model-based driver required for Aero Glass experience
The Aero Glass experience will not run with earlier display drivers.
Minimum: 64 MB graphics memory (Required for Aero Glass experience)
Recommended: 128 MB or greater
Minimum: 32 bits per pixel (bpp) color
Support advanced 3D hardware acceleration with capabilities equal to DirectX 9
Required: AGP 8x or PCI Express 16-lane bus for Graphics Hardware

For a Minimum level of hardware acceleration:
Minimum: Windows XP Driver Model-based driver
Recommended: Windows Vista Display Driver Model-based driver
Graphics hardware will only be used when the appropriate driver is present; otherwise, content will be rendered through software emulation.

Minimum: 32 MB graphics memory
Minimum: 32 bits per pixel (bpp) color
Support hardware acceleration capabilities equal to DirectX 9

For it to look like Windows 2000 you'll need:
VGA graphics

I'm sure everyone has a graphics card that will fit in one of those catagories...

 

[DigiQ8]

Lets see Nutcrackr,
+It takes advantage of graphics hardware
+3D Desktop
+64bit Applications
+DirectX 10
+It is informed that though emulated Xp games still run great
+Quick Search built in(Can find anything in an instant from start menu)
+Ability to Optimize hardware to give by far the most amazing performance(Most costly version), this can be done manually or done by Vista
+Start Menu is much more streamlined
+Better Document Explorer(You could have Graphics, Videos, Pictures, Text Files, Works Files and from an Icons view it would display whats in there)
+Taskbar Thumbnails that for applications and folders
+Flip 3D Alt Tab
+Better Administration System, similar to Linux(Asks for password)
+Comes with Windows Defender(Best Anti Spyware tool to date)
+Comes with a much better firewall
+With Instant search you don't need to remember where you placed your file, you can just type it in the start menu and watch it instantly appear.
+IE7 is limited to just enough power to go on the web(You can modify). For any program to install something or run something you need to type in the master password(Similar to linux), RSS feeds, up to Security Standards, Basically Firefox.
+Windows Sidebar You can put mini-gadgets on it such as various games, appliactions with support, windows media player(winamp and players will then give support most likely), msn messenger, weather information, news updates, traffic maps, Internet radio streams, and slide shows of online photo albums, and anything else people feel like adding onto it, works extremely well with widescreen monitors
+SuperFetch technology that while your using a program it will put off other programs that arn't needed out of memory, it keeps track of what programs you use the most, goes so far to keep track of it based on specific days, puts the programs you use the most infront of background tasks.
+External Memory Devices(Plug in that USB Device and more ram!)
+Takes advantage of new Hybrid Hard Drives
+Far Improved System Restore, much better System Backup, Volume Shadow Copies(incase you accidently delete something)
+More Seamless Network technology, Network Map, Wireless WPA2 support.
+Built in Speach Recognition, can go so far as to opening an application, finding a word, correcting a sentence
+Much better Remote Assistance.
+Better Auto-Updater, can Auto-Update even non important updates, when a program is in use that it's updating it can save applications data, close, update, restart application, scheduling and postponing updates
+Sync Center to manage all Syncing
+Ability to find and fix errors by itself
+Can tell you what programs are hogging system resources like virutal memory
+Works with the 360

those are some of the features for Vista.

QFT

6chr

 

[Bleeder]

"+Can tell you what programs are hogging system resources like virutal memory"

will it finger itself?

 

[destrukt]

when mineral said some he meant it, there is a ton more someone could add to that list.

 

[Cole]

"+Can tell you what programs are hogging system resources like virutal memory"

will it finger itself?

No no, Vista wont be a system hogger. It infact should be far less than Xp. Considering your offloading basically all the graphics to the graphics card(considering your computer has a decent graphics card) your saving alot of system resources and tons of CPU cycles. Leaving more power for what your actually doing.

Considering your also getting a complete rewrite, it is much easier to make your code faster & secure rather than have lots of old code combined with newer code and tons of revisions which ends up in a huge mess. I mean when your working off of code that dates back to 98\Possibly 95 things are gonna start getting real real messy. I can easily see this being one of the many reasons why Microsoft decided to do a rewrite.

So I'd expect the final version of Vista to be much quicker than Xp ever was. And still faster than Xp when you have no interface acceleration options.(AKA the Win 2000 look).

Not only this but with Vista being more interchangable than Xp, Gadget System, .Net, I could see alot more customizing programs with Vista than Xp(And Xp has some good ones).

 

[Sui]

Windows Vista should cost, like, $2. That'd be so totally awesome. Please excuse me while I go eat at WhiteCastle on my way to BestBuy to spend my Dollars.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

First, Windows Vista isn't a total rewirte. They restarted the code base a few times, but they used Windows 2003 as a base for Vista IIRC... So they re-wrote the Vista "upgrade" to Windows 2003, if that's what you mean.

Secondly, I have Vista on my second partition (part of M$ beta team, I'm not a pirate), and I can tell you what is/isn't in there.

Right now, performance is sluggish... It's not all M$'s fault though, as hardware vendors aren't exactly getting amazing drivers out.

Secondly, there isn't a Sidebar in the December beta (there should be a new beta next week or the week after, and there is a 99% chance that they will put that back in for that build), so I can't comment on that.

They don't have Xbox360 with Media Center integration yet (that most likely will be in the April build, if all goes well... small chance of it being in Feb's build)

Vist is obviously a lot more graphics intensive. You can put it back to "normal" theme if you wish, but that's not cool! The Glass is just awesome. By the sounds of it, people may think it sounds awkward (part of the window transparent? Yuck!), but I guarantee you that it is very natural and you will feel like it's always been there.

They redid all the games New graphics on everything woot! Oh, there is obviously new games included (Purple Place, and Mahhong I believe are there now... Pinball was removed )

The Instant search thing is pretty cool for the Start menu. I haven't had a lot of chances to play around with Vista (it's unstable with my audio drivers unfortunately), maybe 5-10 hours of it.

WMP 11 is very very cool. Is it as good as iTunes? Right now, I don't think it is. They are definetely on the right track though! Please note, that they did redo some WMP11 stuff for this upcoming build, so my impressions may change!

If you guys have any questions, feel free to ask!

I did try to install HL2 and play it. I did get to the menus and such, and it was seemingly working fine. Due to unstable and lack-luster drivers though, I crashed, and I didn't try again. Again, this isn't M$'s fault, but the hardware vendors fault. It is said that in the upcoming build, there should be more stable drivers out by hardware vendors (as they are starting to get them WHQL'ed so they can be in the build)

For pricing, not sure what it will cost... Right now I"m testing the Vista Ultimate edition. It's REALLY loaded with lots of good sh*t. I'll be honest, it's probaby turning out to be one of the best OS' I've ever used (once you get used to how everything is now set up)... I'm not a big command-line linux guy, so if you love Linux, I'm not sure how you will feel about Vista

Again, feel free to ask me any questions (no NDA, woot).

 

[Computer5k]

+DirectX 10
I believe DX10 will also be available in Xp/2000(not sure)

+64bit Applications
Already in XP

+It is informed that though emulated Xp games still run great
Not breaking something doesn't really qualify as a feature, and if its anything like the emulation of older versions in XP, then that is pretty much a lie.

+Quick Search built in(Can find anything in an instant from start menu)
iirc, The start menu search only looks for shortcuts in the start menu. The super-fast search results was because of a new way of indexing in WinFS, which will not ship with Vista, but possibly be available as an upgrade.

+Ability to Optimize hardware to give by far the most amazing performance(Most costly version), this can be done manually or done by Vista

Anyone who knows what they are doing can already do that in XP

+Comes with Windows Defender(Best Anti Spyware tool to date)
Available for XP

+With Instant search you don't need to remember where you placed your file, you can just type it in the start menu and watch it instantly appear.
See previous comment on instant search.

+IE7 is limited to just enough power to go on the web(You can modify). For any program to install something or run something you need to type in the master password(Similar to linux), RSS feeds, up to Security Standards, Basically Firefox.
I've tried it. Still completely misses on the acid2 test and hogs ram.

+SuperFetch technology that while your using a program it will put off other programs that arn't needed out of memory, it keeps track of what programs you use the most, goes so far to keep track of it based on specific days, puts the programs you use the most infront of background tasks.
I assume i would use a web-browsing or instant-messagein app more than any game, but i wouldn't want them to get more cpu cycles while a game is running because of that.

+Ability to find and fix errors by itself
Sounds nice, I'd like to see some details on that.

+Can tell you what programs are hogging system resources like virutal memory
ctrl+alt+del in XP does exactly the same thing.

I <3 being a Linux fanboy

And Linux is under the GPL, Windows is not.

the GPL has nothing to do with price but I do understand the reason for the difference in pricing :P

 

[Iced_Eagle]

+Quick Search built in(Can find anything in an instant from start menu)
iirc, The start menu search only looks for shortcuts in the start menu. The super-fast search results was because of a new way of indexing in WinFS, which will not ship with Vista, but possibly be available as an upgrade.

From my testing, it also searches in "Virtual Folders"... Basically Vista groups logical things together and puts them in a Virtual Folder. So if you open the Documents, you will see all your documents. Music is all of your music, etc etc etc

I also belive that Vista searches within certain files to... I don't feel like rebooting into Vista to check, but I sort of remember doing a test to see if it scanned within files, and I recall that it worked (I just did a small text file with the numbers 1, 2, 3, in it... so who knows how it will handle LARGE documents).

 

[Cole]

Dx10 is Vista only.

64bit applications is only in Xp 64bit which has little overall support. Useless to buy and can only be upgraded from Xp Pro. With Vista it will be the 32bit version with less support and the 64bit version recieving most of the support. This is because Microsoft really wants to push 64bit.

Maybe you havn't heard? Vista emulated Dx9 and lower. Many people were mad at this worried that Dx9 games would run slow. Apparantly even though emulated Dx9 and lower games are said to run quite nice.

The Start Menu has nothing to do with WinFS. They index all the files on your computer and then when you search it gives you the results. Google has a tool similar but does it in your browser, but vista streamlines it and brings it to a new level.
WinFS will be a free update for 2k\xp and vista though there will be some things with winfs that will be Vista only. WinFS is ment to be geared toward developers and is built ontop of NTFS.

IE7 isn't done.. You think every little build they do with Firefox is perfect?

When running full screen applications I think it's obvious that Vista will cut off alot of resources for background applications and put most to the current full screen application running.

+Can tell you what programs are hogging system resources like virutal memory
ctrl+alt+del in XP does exactly the same thing.

And the average user is stupid and need a pop up.

 

[Computer5k]

64bit applications is only in Xp 64bit which has little overall support. Useless to buy and can only be upgraded from Xp Pro. With Vista it will be the 32bit version with less support and the 64bit version recieving most of the support. This is because Microsoft really wants to push 64bit.

Microsoft supports all recent OSes equally.(I think ME and up, but they might have recently dropped ME support)

Maybe you havn't heard? Vista emulated Dx9 and lower. Many people were mad at this worried that Dx9 games would run slow. Apparantly even though emulated Dx9 and lower games are said to run quite nice.

Microsoft would be stupid to emulaate dx9 when it could run natively with minimal work. I'm guessing it just converts dx9 and lower calls to dx10 calls, which shouldn't require that much overhead for power.

The Start Menu has nothing to do with WinFS. They index all the files on your computer and then when you search it gives you the results. Google has a tool similar but does it in your browser, but vista streamlines it and brings it to a new level.
WinFS will be a free update for 2k\xp and vista though there will be some things with winfs that will be Vista only. WinFS is ment to be geared toward developers and is built ontop of NTFS.

That indexing is part of WinFS, unless they added an incomplete version until they fully add WinFS

IE7 isn't done.. You think every little build they do with Firefox is perfect?

Actually, all the beta versions of firefox that I've used were better than the beta of IE7. Also, this doesnt really qualify as a new feature, as it will be available for XP

And the average user is stupid and need a pop up.

And advanced users will be mad when a warning appears telling they the game that they are playing is taking a lot of memory.

 

[Shamrock]

Post In The Right Forum!

Vista = Hardware Not Games!

 

[nutcrackr]

That list is probably the first time I've seen some decent features on vista put together. So thanks for taking the time to write them out. While there are some useful things many of those features aren't really fantastic. At least for me. The search and sidebar are essentially already done with google desktop. If games don't run at least 90% as fast as on XP then I'm going to be very annoyed when I upgrade and can't play my old games at the settings I want.

 

[destrukt]

> Available for XP
it isn't as integrated and has slightly less [os] support then in vista.

> I've tried it. Still completely misses on the acid2 test and hogs ram.
is there any browser that is good @ acid2 and is the acid2 test even a good way to test standards-compliance ? nope. firefox also has horrible, horrible memory leaks that have been around for years and it starts slower then ie7.

> Microsoft supports all recent OSes equally.
the 64-bit version of xp gets very little support, as it's not a fully fledged product from them.

> Microsoft would be stupid to emulaate dx9 when it could run natively with minimal work. I'm guessing it just converts dx9 and lower calls to dx10 calls, which shouldn't require that much overhead for power.
if it's so easy, write up here, right now, or even better, email them.

dx x to 9 (x being 6 or so, depending on how low they decide to go) will be supported through software emulation; quick, everyone scream, cry and panic; go !

why it won't matter . . .

- figures have been quoted at performance being slowed down 2-3% which is 'nothing' (no, i cannot 'directly' link you to this, but if you really want to find it, channel9 would be a good start).

- in 'general' games are gpu limited, not cpu (software emulation) limited, so it's becoming a 'non-issue' as in .. 'unfair' and uncalled for complaining.

should this be taken as fact ? nope, we will have to wait until vista is released before we can make final judgements, but by reading the above you can realise that it will not really be an issue, at all. also, it would be complete suicide for microsoft to not support past dx versions, or do so and having horrible performance; alot of people wouldn't upgrade to vista if their games didn't work.

do you think if it was supposedly so easy to run it natively they would ? because of the new kernel/core os code, new api's (winfx, avalon and others) and other reasons they can't, so rather then not supporting past versions (which would be suicide) they decided to emulate it.

> Also, this [ie7] doesnt really qualify as a new feature, as it will be available for XP
the best features of ie7 (security wise) are vista only, bad luck. also, rofl @ you saying firefox betas are better then ie7 betas.

> And advanced users will be mad when a warning appears telling they the game that they are playing is taking a lot of memory.
oh, and where did you get this little bit of info ?

about search: have you used windows desktop search ? after it has indexed your files, searching is very fast and in vista desktop search will be faster and better (greater metadata support and so on).

not sure why you're talking about winfs/start bar, there isn't any connection. also, the search box in the start menu is the same one in explorer, control panel and every other one.

about the new code base: when allchin said they were going to 'reset' longhorn and use a clean base of code, based on a version of windows being developed for corporate uses .. most ppl think/say this is server 2k3, and i have no reason to disagree.

the 2k3 code has/is disappeared/disappearing, because when they 'reset' the code base, they didn't simply eradicate everything, they were replacing old with new line by line (not literally, but you get the idea, it is a progressive thing, not a one-off restart). i wouldn't be suprised if there were tiny parts retained [from 2k3] but i'm not that worried, server 2003 is extremely stable and well built.

you've managed to be wrong, basically every time except for when you say something stupid like 'Anyone who knows what they are doing can already do that in XP.'

it's funny, people complain about things in xp, such as instability, security problems, speed and so on, and when they fix these problems, people say 'i see no reason to update, xp is all i need' -- i mean, come on, how stupid do you people want to sound/be ?

- this is the second vista thread created in general games, i guess it needs to be moved like the other one was.

 

[Computer5k]

is there any browser that is good @ acid2 and is the acid2 test even a good way to test standards-compliance ? nope. firefox also has horrible, horrible memory leaks that have been around for years and it starts slower then ie7.
Safari and Konqueror both pass the acid2 test, and firefox comes a lot closer than ie. And it is a good test for css2 compatibility.

if it's so easy, write up here, right now, or even better, email them.
If Vista can run XP programs as well as they claim it should run fine with no problem.

the best features of ie7 (security wise) are vista only, bad luck. also, rofl @ you saying firefox betas are better then ie7 betas.
They will be the exact same program, there is no security difference.

oh, and where did you get this little bit of info ?
Minerel's feature list.

it's funny, people complain about things in xp, such as instability, security problems, speed and so on, and when they fix these problems, people say 'i see no reason to update, xp is all i need' -- i mean, come on, how stupid do you people want to sound/be ?
I'd have to wait to see if Vista is any better at the problems you listed there.

 

[oldagerocker]

The only thing im worried about is how customisible it is. I HATE the startbar, which is why i use objectdock and bblean allot. Also, i'd like to remove things like the search function on the startbar, waste of space imo.. i never have to search for files, but using that type in a web address could be useful. bleh.

I just hope i can customise it myself, rather tahn having to hack certain files and add third party themes like with windows xp.

 

[Cole]

Microsoft supports all recent OSes equally.(I think ME and up, but they might have recently dropped ME support)

Do you think Microsoft dosn't push Developers to do this or that. Push Developers to use Dx10 for their upcoming games? Get them to use 64bit computing?
Yes Microsoft supports there OSes for cusomters but on a Developers standpoint is much different. Microsoft never pushed the Xp 64bit versions on Hardware manufactures or Developers. They didn't give to much programming support, didn't push Developers to switch to it.

Vista they are going to provide more support and money in terms of Developing so that more support is givin by the world for Vista 64bit and getting Developers to make applications and games for it.

That indexing is part of WinFS, unless they added an incomplete version until they fully add WinFS

Wrong it has nothing to do with WinFs. The computer will go index every single one of your files. When you search them it instantly checks all the files it has indexed and displays results instantly. It Precompiles all the files on your computer for this search. When you add\delete files it records this and updates. Simple. Effective. Smart.

Google hasn't touched WinFS and made a program to do this. Vista as I said before brings it to a new level and streamlines it perfectly with the interface.

And advanced users will be mad when a warning appears telling they the game that they are playing is taking a lot of memory.

And advanced users should be able to figure out that that Microsoft would of added a "I Don't Care So Don't Show This To Me Again" button.

the best features of ie7 (security wise) are vista only, bad luck. also, rofl @ you saying firefox betas are better then ie7 betas.
They will be the exact same program, there is no security difference.

So your saying IE7 wont take any advantage of Vista's newer security features, API's, Programming Techniques, Firewall? I think not.

I'd have to wait to see if Vista is any better at the problems you listed there.

Lets see Microsoft is designing all there API's and Vista itself around Secruity and Stability. Then pushing performance though techniques such as having an Interface rendered by the graphics card and smart memory managment.
Infact Microsoft started a side-project for an os that is based on complete secruity and not based on performance at all to develop better secuirty techniques and ideas.

 

[Shamrock]

Post In The Right Forum!

Vista = Hardware Not Games!

6char.

 

[destrukt]

> If Vista can run XP programs as well as they claim it should run fine with no problem.
if it's no problem, why say that microsft are stupid and so on ? -clue

> And it is a good test for css2 compatibility.
it's not a good test for 'real world' examples of websites.

> They will be the exact same program, there is no security difference.
yes there is; the first and most important is Protected Mode, then there is integration with UAC, then Parental Controls and a few others. then of course, there are the other huge benefits from being run on vista, rather then xp.

Protected Mode (Vista Only) Internet Explorer 7 in Windows Vista runs in isolation from other applications in the operating system. Exploits and malicious software are restricted from writing to any location beyond Temporary Internet Files without explicit user consent.

Windows Vista also builds upon the User Account Protection initiative—by default, limiting Internet Explorer 7 to just enough permissions to browse the web, but not enough to modify your files or settings—keeping your PC safer from web-based attacks.

wrong again; you might want to check your source(s), or stop making things up.

> Minerel's feature list.
i see where it says that you will be told what programs are using alot of memory, but where does it say it will make these apparent annoying messages you were talking about ?

> I'd have to wait to see if Vista is any better at the problems you listed there.
exactly, there is no point complaining about anything in the os, until we've used it, but you people insist on complaining and trying to lower the os as much as possible because you know that it will be good, and is a huge turn around for windows.

 

[sHaDdoW]

They just bloat windows eachtime they make a new version. Most of the code in windows isn't even being used, and there too afraid to remove code because it might do something but they don't know what it does. Lots of there code is from companys they braught out, espically in NT.


Although they do fix problems, add more features, and increase stabillity in new versions(by adding more code)

 

[destrukt]

how are they bloating it and where is your proof of all this code not being used ? also, proof of them not knowing what code will do, thus being feared would be handy.

you're wrong about the code, i already made a post concerning that too.

about the new code base: when allchin said they were going to 'reset' longhorn and use a clean base of code, based on a version of windows being developed for corporate uses .. most ppl think/say this is server 2k3, and i have no reason to disagree.

the 2k3 code has/is disappeared/disappearing, because when they 'reset' the code base, they didn't simply eradicate everything, they were replacing old with new line by line (not literally, but you get the idea, it is a progressive thing, not a one-off restart). i wouldn't be suprised if there were tiny parts retained [from 2k3] but i'm not that worried, server 2003 is extremely stable and well built.

you might not want to get into this debate shadow, you seem to have even less of a clue then computer5k.

brought *

 

[Shamrock]

Post In The Right Forum!

 

[sHaDdoW]

opps 6char

Double post

 

[sHaDdoW]

how are they bloating it and where is your proof of all this code not being used ? also, proof of them not knowing what code will do, thus being feared would be handy.

you're wrong about the code, i already made a post concerning that too.


you might not want to get into this debate shadow, you seem to have even less of a clue then computer5k.

brought *

What code base? The code base for 2000/xp, came from DOS,9X,XENIX(What nt is based off),OS/2(When Msoft used to develop for ibm, but the new version of os/2 got cancelled, It than got incorprated in nt) and nt all merged. There I can see the problem.

Microsoft's million lines of spaghetti code (PC Magazine, Aug 2004)

Microsoft out of control? Quote: "So what is really going on here? Conspiracy or incompetence? I think neither. I think the code base is simply out of control. When you ask around, Microsoft insiders will tell you that nobody at the company fully understands the Windows code. This has apparently been true for years. So many people have worked on it and it is so scrambled and huge, with millions of lines of code, that it's a miracle that it works at all." Unquote

He says that Microsoft spends a number of years working on each new version of Windows. Microsoft tries to start from scratch with each one, but it has to release the product, it borrows routines & code from older versions.

Quote: Since nobody quite knows how many of these routines work, and exactly how much of the old code is really needed to make them work, the programmers grab large chunks of old code and test them within the new framework. If they work, they get locked down. One must assume that in the process, various pieces of junk code that have nothing to do with the new features come along for the ride."

As it says there, they always try to start from scratch, but it never happens. Do you understand how many years it would take to redo that code?

 

[JNightshade]

9 years.

 

[Reaktor4]

+ drm shit.