What type of acheivements are reasonable?

[cheesepie]

In an interview here,

"Robin acknowledged that Valve took something of a buckshot approach with that first round of class-specific Achievements, in order to gauge player reaction to various extremes and provide a framework of data with which to design further Achievements."

So, since we've all had a chance to examine these achievements, which types do ya all think are reasonable and which ones are outright ridiculous?

 

[Cornerstone]

Any Steam friends achievements are unreasonable. I enjoy the hard to get achievements but the cheats and achievement servers really ruin it for everyone else.

 

[PimpinPenguin]

Stupid ones that are luck based. Like ubering someone just before they are hit by a crit.

Achievements that force you to be selfish and ignore your team and the object of the game to get. Such as medics running around try to saw eachother.

Mainly having to get Achievements to get new weapons, that is really stupid and i hate it

 

[DEATHMASTER]

achievement servers really ruin it for everyone else.

Just don't go on them...?
I find the bonesawing medics achievement to be alright but 50 is kinda high, maybe 10-15. I mean its just one freaking achievement. As for the weapon itself (the kritzkreig or something, 2nd medgun upgrade) is kinda lame. You don't even stay invincible, just get 100% critical hits, maybe thats good for taking out sentries but you die in 2 seconds without the shielding so whats the point; maybe I just suck with it. You'd need 2 medics, one with uber and one with crit to get what I thought should already be the upgrade. Or 3 medics since you yourself would need to be invincible in the battlefield...Worked too damn hard for something lame :frown:
The ubersaw is ok, gives 25% ubercharge boost on kills...
I'm glad this probably won't be the trend of things. I enjoyed some achievements more than others.

 

[Adabiviak]

Stupid ones that are luck based. Like ubering someone just before they are hit by a crit.

That was one of the easier ones. Keeping my patient from dying from a crit rocket by ubering him right before it hits accounts for about a tenth of the ubers I start. Sniper fire also works. If you see a sniper bead rolling around your patient's head, by the time you react to it, it's a safe bet that it's charged to crit. You'd be surprised at how many people lay fire on you even though you're ubered.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

I don't really understand that either but maybe they're trying to blow you away to seperate the medic and make the other guy vulnerable. It's happened to me but I'm usually right back on him before it's completely out.

 

[Hamsocks]

None of them. Achievements are the cancer that is killing gaming.

 

[Jintor]

I dispute that thoroughly. After the initial rabid achievement hunters went back to playing the game normally, Achievements went back to being - well, achievements.

I hate the unlocks though.

 

[Operational]

I don't have a problem with the lucky/crazy achievements providing they aren't required for the new content. Completed crazy/lucky achievements would have a nice story behind them which people can share and talk about.

I don't have a problem with long achievements providing they encourage good game playing.

There should be some achievements that encourage new players to try tactics and techniques they might not be aware of.

 

[Jintor]

Agreed, Ops. Achievements that double as teaching people how to play would be quite delicious.

 

[Cornerstone]

Just don't go on them...?

That was not my problem with them. It ruins it when you are attempting to get everything the hard proper way when anyone can just go and do them there.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Some people clearly don't care about 'achieving' as much as they just want the new weapons. Can't really blame them.

 

[Slime]

Yeah, I think I've got about 23 of the medic ones through normal play, and they weren't that hard, but almost all of the remaining ones are getting ridiculious, mostly by concept. Unless I go to an achievement server some day, I will never get Placebo Effect. I just refuse to act like such an idiot on a regular server.

 

[Jintor]

Just take out the bloody unlock feature, that's all I ask.

I like achievements and fancy new weapons but I hate having to jump through hoops to get them.

 

[morgs]

Yeah Same, especially if some of the achievements are down to random luck. They should make an unlock system like BF2, which requires a total point gain over time. At least then it's possible for everyone.

 

[Druckles]

One million hit points. 5 kills with a scout. The others a pretty much ok.

Oh, 7 friends in the same server.

 

[organizedcrime]

If I see a "Destroy two Level 3 Sentries in one life with an axe" achievement, I'm going to smash my monitor.

That being said, achievements that are attainable by regular people (but are not necessarily easy) are great. I actually like the Steam friends achievements if only because it encourages increased teamwork. Although, it might lead to people friending you for the sake of joining your server and killing/ubering/meleeing/roasting/gibbing you.

 

[Druckles]

only because it encourages increased teamwork.

In my experience, it doesn't improve teamwork, it just increases people befriending each other and joining your friends' games then leaving.

 

[Zarzak]

In my experience, it doesn't improve teamwork, it just increases people befriending each other and joining your friends' games then leaving.

Agreed. I was playing medic and someone ubered me. It turned out it was my steam friend, who wanted to get the achievement.

 

[LackingSaint]

Perhaps having the weapons that people slave over getting being upgrades, rather than.. variations.

 

[Absinthe]

No more achievements that require you to have X number of Steam friends or other stupid shit. At the very least, they should not be requirements for me to get the final weapon.

Other than that, I don't think you need to be as sensitive with Pyro achievements as they should have been with the Medic. Your job is just to kill people, not like the Medic who had achievements that sometimes directly conflicted with the way their meant to be played. I don't mind a few rare, hard, and/or luck-based achievements, but I think they should allow more room to choose which ones to get. That way everybody has a better chance of accessing the weapons instead of being totally obstructed by a few remaining "impossible" ones.

 

[Slime]

Perhaps having the weapons that people slave over getting being upgrades, rather than.. variations.

I doubt that the whole idea behind the new weapon content would be just thrown away. Variations are the only way to keep things balanced. There are a few games that have tried the "upgrade path", and I for one don't think it has been that good an idea.

And yes, Steam community based achievements get a no from me too.

 

[PvtRyan]

All achievements are fine, but they should not be mandatory to get. What I wanna see is that points scored in regular games help you get your unlocks but that they're not needed for them, ie: the CoD4 model. Say you need 1500 points for a weapon, getting an achievement should net you 125 points (so 12 achievements = still a weapon) but every point scored in a game also add to your unlock points.

 

[Sheepo]

^This^

I don't mind them being ridiculous, but if you do, don't make the unlocks depend on them.

 

[ríomhaire]

There should be an achievement for killing someone who was just on fire but jumped into the water.

 

[CyberPitz]

That was not my problem with them. It ruins it when you are attempting to get everything the hard proper way when anyone can just go and do them there.

This post smells of "MOMMY, THEY ARE CHEATING AND I DON'T LIkE IT!"

The achievements are actually pretty good, I think.

 

[Zeus]

The weapon unlocks should be removed. I don't like them because they went and turned TF2 from a highly balanced multiplayer FPS into some gimmicky MMORPG type thing. No one plays the game, they all just farm servers, and even screw around in pub games to get achievements. On day 1 of the medic achievement release, there were whole teams full of medics trying to get achievements. The same will happen when the pyro achievements release. I just think that removing the weapon unlocks will cut back on a lot of the public server achievement farming. Oh and hopefully they won't release the update with an "achievement_unlock_all" console command this time so we don't have another disaster of people using it, then valve rolling back everyones achievements.

 

[Steveio]

Except the unlockable weapons are still balanced.


The Blutsaugher restores 3 HP per successful hit? It doesn't get Critical Shots.

The Kritzkrieg gives your target a 100% Critical Shot rate? It doesn't make either of you invincible.

The Ubersaw gives 25% Ubercharge per hit? It's slow and you're a 150 HP "kill me first" target trying to Melee someone to death.


And after that first day of achievements, people start playing other classes as well. Only the really nub-filled pub servers have entire teams composed of one class.

 

[Jintor]

So just take away the unlocks, leave the achievements and weapons in, and the need for farming unless you're a bloody idiot goes away.

 

[Druckles]

All achievements are fine, but they should not be mandatory to get. What I wanna see is that points scored in regular games help you get your unlocks but that they're not needed for them, ie: the CoD4 model. Say you need 1500 points for a weapon, getting an achievement should net you 125 points (so 12 achievements = still a weapon) but every point scored in a game also add to your unlock points.

That wouldn't stop achievement servers. Although I do quite like the idea.

 

[Absinthe]

Ubersaw is such a clear and obvious upgrade over the original Bonesaw it's not even funny.

"LOL BUT I CAN SWING FASTAR!!!1"

 

[saratos]

There isn't a really clear advantage. In the situation that you are sawing somebody, unless it was a ambush or something, you are likely to die, being the weaker class.

 

[Absinthe]

The medic's melee crits a lot if he's good, because he's racking up lots of assists. Besides, just because you have the weapon doesn't mean you should try to whack every guy you come across. Any serious disadvantage with the ubersaw is due to the player using it ineffectively. The players who have the sense not to run close quarters up against a soldier are given a pretty substantial advantage.

I also find using Blut can help me close the gap more efficiently if I ever have to fend for myself against one or more certain classes.

 

[Druckles]

There's an obvious advantage of the ubersaw over the bonesaw. It's not necessarily an advantage over other classes, it's certainly, undoubtedly better than the bonesaw.

Although in a melee sudden death, bonesaw would be the preferred weapon.

 

[Laivasse]

What makes it even more of a pisstake is that the more of a casual, laid back player you are - ie. the type of person Valve wanted to extend TF2's appeal to with it's accessibility - the more your chance of getting the unlocks diminishes to nothing. Most of the people who have benefited from the unlocks (and the only people who have benefited from the Ubersaw), are achievement farmers and people who for whatever reason didn't get their unlocks rolled back after using the console command.

I have a few Steam friends who play TF2 casually and they're all lucky if they even have the Blutsauger. I think I'm a pretty damn good medic - which means I got reasonable, rewarding achievements like Infernal Medicine in a trice - but I still don't even have the Kritzkrieger.

 

[Sheepo]

If you could choose the order you get the weapons in, I would be much happier.

 

[Druckles]

If you could choose the order you get the weapons in, I would be much happier.

But that would defeat the point in being obtainable, so you might as well take away the achievements altogether.

I think people complain far too much about these achievements. It doesn't effect my gameplay not having the weapons yet. I'll get them one day, when Valve deems it fit for me to have them.

 

[Laivasse]

The unlockables definitely affect gameplay for me. With the Blutsauger I can now go 1-on-1 on a server against a pyro of equal ability and be confident of kicking his arse.

People might be complaining about how the Kritzkrieger sucks, but I've envisaged lots of situations where I could wreak absolute havoc with it - except I can't because I haven't jumped through stupid pointless hoops like ubering scouts, or withholding my ubers in order to get Placebo Effect, etc.

Sure, I'm confident I'll get them one day when Valve 'deems it fit' for me to have them. The problem is Valve has already deemed it fit that farmers and grinders are more entitled to the unlocks than the ordinary player. I'd rather be rewarded for playing the game properly.

 

[Druckles]

The unlockables definitely affect gameplay for me. With the Blutsauger I can now go 1-on-1 on a server against a pyro of equal ability and be confident of kicking his arse.

That's not too surprising. Unless the pyro runs, he's bound to lose against most people. Even if he does run, he's probably going to die, anyway.

 

[Absinthe]

The system wouldn't get so many complaints if it didn't come off so half-cooked. And I don't mean just some of those stupid achievements.

All will be forgiven if they've taken these concerns to heart and the pyro achievements turn out better. But until then, I won't pretend I enjoyed the grind or anything.