where do you see music going?

evil^milk

evil^milk

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in the next 25 years, how do you think music will evolve?
 
Music will suck so much ass after the next 25 years and there will be no famous classical musicians.
 
Downhill. It's already been getting progressively worse. it's going to be nothing but recycled R&B, and "MEETAAAL" songs that are nothing but white noise.

-Angry Lawyer
 
covers...all covers...

And more people getting to where they are through family or reality shows
 
evil^milk said:
in the next 25 years, where do you see music going?
Click to expand...

Downhill.

It shall hit a big wall full of complaints and teenagers who shoot themselves for no reason at all.
 
It will proceed as it always has.

Music today is still as awesome as it was 40 years ago.
 
Badger - the problem is, the quality songs being released are still good, but they're being drowned by a flood of crap R&B, rap, and manufactured pop music.

-Angry Lawyer
 
Rap won't exist. Fingers crossed.

I hope we'll get a lot of bands whose influences are from the 90's, like Nirvana/Pearl Jam. 90's bands were generally influenced by stuff from the 60's.
 
Here's what i believe is going to happen:

Commercial music is going to degrade more and more into noise with a beat.
basically, it's like this, when you master a track (editing/improving the sound aspects to make it sound more pro and in your face like most other tracks), at the end you do something called maximizing and normalising.
Basically, the human ear doesn't percieve the loudness of a song by how loud the peaks are, but how loud the "average" sound is. So what the sound engineers do is they simply remove the peaks and bring up the rest of the sound to a louder volume. todays commercials already do enough compression and maximizing to power a small nuclear explosion but music is going in the same direction.

Here's the difference between an older track that hasn't had this treatment and still has its peaks(lower)
and a modern track that's gotten pretty heavy mastering(upper):
master.jpg

this is probably going to (d)evolve to where all you see is green when the music is blasting on full.

Why do they do this? because the record labels believe that the louder something is, the harder it will be to escape it and thus you will buy it. so loud = good.
Same logic as with commercials.
Due to online piracy they are getting desperate to do everything they can to increase the sellability of an album.

It's common knowledge nowadays that you're going to have to play live if you want to get signed by a good record label at all, because due to online piracy you can't really sell if you just give out albums. Live shows is the only thing that makes money nowadays and like the Arctic monkeys, the best shot is to become already popular with gigs before you're signed.
Oh and yeah, if you're not doing rock, youre going to have to look like a supermodel.

I wouldn't be surprised if the record labels stop selling records at all eventually and just let the artists have live shows and sell merchandise etc. That's the only thing that really makes money (unless you're one of the maajoor pop stars, so don't mention those).

And that goes to the people who claim piracy doesn't change a thing..

Anyway, this mastering issue is going to ridiculous extremes already, when the track is not in the hands of a really professional mastering engineer it's going way too far. The remove bits of sound harmonics that are essential and the track basically turns into.. noise with a beat.

The second thing I think is music is going to become even more experimental. Alot of music (maybe even pop, *shudder*) is probably going to look into sounds of IDM and other electronic experimental music.
Minimal/Tech house for instance, which is predicted to get really big in the coming year/years has a more electronic experimental nature to it than the usual house.

We also are probably going to look into the scales of eastern music with more than 12 seminotes per octave. I think they have like 64. It's probably going to sound pretty cool.

So anyway, music is going to improve while pop music does what it does best, degenerate.
 
there is still good music out there...you just have to look for it

if your on about main stream chart music, its just going downhill
 
I don't care for the mainstream. Most people are crap, thus most music is crap. I can find love in all non mainstream stuff. French Techno, Irish Folk, American Country, Classical Music, Old Punk. Hell it's all great.
 
Angry Lawyer said:
Badger - the problem is, the quality songs being released are still good, but they're being drowned by a flood of crap R&B, rap, and manufactured pop music.

-Angry Lawyer
Click to expand...
But that's the sameeeeeeee as it always has been, there always has been and always will be rubbish music - there's a lot of music that's popular thats good:

Arctic Monkeys
Maximo Park
Bloc Party

And more bands getting more popular.. it's not drowning under a tide of crap.. indie is getting bigger... even the shittest clubs do an indie set (this may be in Lincoln only - but I've heard it in Canterbury & Nottingham too)
 
Crawley plays only R&B, no matter where you go. Maybe I'm just jaded by that.

-Angry Lawyer
 
Mainstream has been going to hell in a hand basket since the early 90s. And thus, I couldn't care less about it.

But, the underground, the independent, they'll continue making good music. While the pseudo-indie bands will continue making music for mainstream audiences, making the average person think they're special because they listen to a band who proclaims themselves as "indie."
 
Who would you say is pseudo-indie?
Just because somethings popular doesn't make it bad.
 
yeah but indie means independant, which you can hardly say the pseudo-indie bands are.
not to say some of them are really good, they're just not that independant anymore.
 
Oh sure. Modest Mouse for instance, one of my favorite bands, now on a major label. Honestly? I still consider them indie. Indie has become a sound in itself these days than just meaning "independent music." Flaming Lips are on a major label, yet I still look at them as an indie band.

When I say pseudo-indie, I'm talking about bands just jumping on the indie bandwagon for the sake of trying to be "underground, indie." I had a couple in mind...but I just forgot them.
 
Ahhh right, not bands that have become popular :)

Ok cool, I agree-and agree on the fact that that doesn't nessesarily make them bad :)
 
Underground, and off the mainstream, its not getting any worse really, you can always find good stuff, you just got hunt around. But whats being fed down peoples throats in the pop world is going WAY down hill.
 
Ah, this discussion. I've honestly had discussions with people who felt that 12-tone serialism would be mainstream someday. My feeling is that, while atonality has potential and is finding very small "ins" in on the outskirts of prog, tonality will never be abandoned. 12-tone serialism is an arbitary constraint that has no perceptual merit beyond the fact that a specific sequence of interval classes is explored. That there are 12 non-repeating tones from the equally tempered chromatic scale doesn't mean a thing. Unlike CrazyHarj, I don't think that 12-tone equal temperment is likely to be threatened any time soon. Not that I don't enjoy excursions into different just intonation schemes or historic tuning systems; I just don't see much interest in the mainstream.

Lots of people will keep buying what the record companies and MTV want them to buy, and their friends will follow. People who demand more from their music will continue to seek it out and support it. I wouldn't be surprised to see more experimentation on the acoustic front, as much experimental music lately has tended to be either elecronic or academic.

I'd really love to see another group like Gentle Giant was in the '70s. Spock's Beard did it for a while, but they lost their head guy (Neal Morse). Really good musicianship across the board.

---

Just in case anyone wants to check out any group I mentioned, I'll list what albums I recommend (so you don't go and listen to their worst ones):

Gentle Giant:
'70s prog rock. Almost the definition of polyphonic rock. Notable for precision, polyphonic vocal and instrumental sections, an almost medieval style for some of the singing. Of course, you'll have to put up with '70s recording quality, but it's really not bad. If you like any two of: 20th century classical, rock, and medieval, you'll absolutely love them. If you only like one, it wouldn't hurt to give them a try.
"Octopus" and "The Power and the Glory" are both good.

Spock's Beard:
Late '90s to present. Some pieces definately influenced by Gentle Giant, others almost on the good side of Pop.
I recommend "The Light", "Beware of Darkness", and "V", especially the first and last. The others of the first 6 albums are also pretty solid, but after that they lost Morse, their keyboardist, lead vocalist, and composer.

If you find you like the Beard, or already like Marillion, Dream Theatre, or the Flower Kings, there's an absolutely superb supergroup formed from one member of each band, called "Transatlantic." They only have 2 studio albums: "SMPT:E" and "Bridge Across Forever". Both recommended, the later very highly. Of the albums either Neal Morse or the remaining Spock's Beard did, I like Morse's "One" the best, though I should mention that it is overtly Christian.
 
CrazyHarij said:
Here's what i believe is going to happen:

Commercial music is going to degrade more and more into noise with a beat.
basically, it's like this, when you master a track (editing/improving the sound aspects to make it sound more pro and in your face like most other tracks), at the end you do something called maximizing and normalising.
Basically, the human ear doesn't percieve the loudness of a song by how loud the peaks are, but how loud the "average" sound is. So what the sound engineers do is they simply remove the peaks and bring up the rest of the sound to a louder volume. todays commercials already do enough compression and maximizing to power a small nuclear explosion but music is going in the same direction.

Here's the difference between an older track that hasn't had this treatment and still has its peaks(lower)
and a modern track that's gotten pretty heavy mastering(upper):
master.jpg

this is probably going to (d)evolve to where all you see is green when the music is blasting on full.

Why do they do this? because the record labels believe that the louder something is, the harder it will be to escape it and thus you will buy it. so loud = good.
Same logic as with commercials.
Due to online piracy they are getting desperate to do everything they can to increase the sellability of an album.

It's common knowledge nowadays that you're going to have to play live if you want to get signed by a good record label at all, because due to online piracy you can't really sell if you just give out albums. Live shows is the only thing that makes money nowadays and like the Arctic monkeys, the best shot is to become already popular with gigs before you're signed.
Oh and yeah, if you're not doing rock, youre going to have to look like a supermodel.

I wouldn't be surprised if the record labels stop selling records at all eventually and just let the artists have live shows and sell merchandise etc. That's the only thing that really makes money (unless you're one of the maajoor pop stars, so don't mention those).

And that goes to the people who claim piracy doesn't change a thing..

Anyway, this mastering issue is going to ridiculous extremes already, when the track is not in the hands of a really professional mastering engineer it's going way too far. The remove bits of sound harmonics that are essential and the track basically turns into.. noise with a beat.

The second thing I think is music is going to become even more experimental. Alot of music (maybe even pop, *shudder*) is probably going to look into sounds of IDM and other electronic experimental music.
Minimal/Tech house for instance, which is predicted to get really big in the coming year/years has a more electronic experimental nature to it than the usual house.

We also are probably going to look into the scales of eastern music with more than 12 seminotes per octave. I think they have like 64. It's probably going to sound pretty cool.

So anyway, music is going to improve while pop music does what it does best, degenerate.
Click to expand...

Whaaaat...? Live music is the only way they make money?? Many of the bands I know actually lose money touring, although the advantage of live shows is that it's the only time the money goes *directly* into the band's pocket (from the merch stall usually, at least). Maybe we're talking about two different things.

Labels certainly don't only make money from live shows, they make an obscene percentage of profit from CDs. It sounds like you're buying into the propaganda about the music industry being in crisis because vicious net thieves are stealing it all, but that's just not true. I dunno what 2005 was like, but the BPI enjoyed record-breaking sales of albums consecutively in 2003 and 2004. Singles may be suffering, but frankly who cares. What piracy (scuse me for laughing) does is actually break the major label monopoly where something like 90% of all sales are from the relatively small number of bands signed to major labels. Without the net and word of mouth, those bands who don't have the benefit of £millions's from the labels towards their TV and radio promotion would be nowhere, and we would see MORE terrible £$-geared shite, if anything. As it is, those bands can reach anyone they want and true creativity has a chance.

As for where I see music going: I wish the music industry WAS in crisis. I wish the flat bloated rock-star-machine would just come crashing to the ground and that some real music would be made. I hope it becomes harder and harder to make money from music, because you know who will make music then? The people who really want to. All the classical music that tends to spring to people's minds when they think of the sorry state of contemporary music - how much of a music 'industry' existed when those composers were around? If they were subjected to the system we have nowadays, would they have become as respected as they are, or would they have festered at the bottom of the heap due to lack of tits/flashy music videos/teen angst? Kind of a scary thought.

As for the future of musical content and quality, I dunno. I might be imagining it but it seems like we're in worse straits than ever here in the UK. I can't go 10 minutes without some twat defiling my ears with crappy dance or garage or whatever from his sub-woofer (note to Americans: garage is such a crap genre it doesn't even EXIST in the US). I doubt you'll see major developments in the mainstream, unless the music industry as we know it really does topple (fat chance). I'm sure behind the scenes there'll be people experimenting, challenging the fabric of music itself and how we view it, but this is always going on, and it never filters to the surface because people tend to prefer the stuff they're familiar with. Besides, so much 'challenging' and 'experimental' music often misses the point by just breaking as many conventions as possible, which might be sometimes interesting, but isn't often inspiring.

I'm interested in seeing where extreme metal goes. It's only recently getting recognised as having some of the most technically gifted musicians in the world, but at the same time it's stagnating somewhat. To escape it, bands are either getting so pretentious it's painful or they're swinging right off the other end of the spectrum to the point of practically spitting on the idea of well-structured riffs and songs. Personally, I'm interested in what you have left over when you cut away practically all the bullshit pretentions and lay down just the bare bones of emotion to song.
 
I'd also say downhill. Mainstream in the 90's (Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, Chili Peppers...yes I'm just listing my favourite bands) was good. Nowadays mainstream is shit and underground is the only way to go. Rap and all has just became so shit (hell even the music videos lack originality these days) that it isn't funny.
 
Yeah, I totally agree with you.

I've discussed this with fellow music makers who want to make a living doing this as much as i do, and the common consensus seems to tbe that the record labels don't consider selling CD's an enough profit. Again keep in mind that we're not talking about the big stars out there, but less known labels and artists whose audience might as well download it.

I support free distribution as much as everyone else, heck, i'm a swede.

I wish the whole record label thing would die, yeah, but as it is now it's more hurtful to the artist, since the record labels are the only way to make a living doing this and as they're getting more precautious you almost have to be popular before you are signed. you have to sell, and guess what sells out there..
 
Laivasse said:
Whaaaat...? Live music is the only way they make money?? Many of the bands I know actually lose money touring, although the advantage of live shows is that it's the only time the money goes *directly* into the band's pocket (from the merch stall usually, at least). Maybe we're talking about two different things.

Labels certainly don't only make money from live shows, they make an obscene percentage of profit from CDs. It sounds like you're buying into the propaganda about the music industry being in crisis because vicious net thieves are stealing it all, but that's just not true. I dunno what 2005 was like, but the BPI enjoyed record-breaking sales of albums consecutively in 2003 and 2004. Singles may be suffering, but frankly who cares. What piracy (scuse me for laughing) does is actually break the major label monopoly where something like 90% of all sales are from the relatively small number of bands signed to major labels. Without the net and word of mouth, those bands who don't have the benefit of £millions's from the labels towards their TV and radio promotion would be nowhere, and we would see MORE terrible £$-geared shite, if anything. As it is, those bands can reach anyone they want and true creativity has a chance.

As for where I see music going: I wish the music industry WAS in crisis. I wish the flat bloated rock-star-machine would just come crashing to the ground and that some real music would be made. I hope it becomes harder and harder to make money from music, because you know who will make music then? The people who really want to. All the classical music that tends to spring to people's minds when they think of the sorry state of contemporary music - how much of a music 'industry' existed when those composers were around? If they were subjected to the system we have nowadays, would they have become as respected as they are, or would they have festered at the bottom of the heap due to lack of tits/flashy music videos/teen angst? Kind of a scary thought.

As for the future of musical content and quality, I dunno. I might be imagining it but it seems like we're in worse straits than ever here in the UK. I can't go 10 minutes without some twat defiling my ears with crappy dance or garage or whatever from his sub-woofer (note to Americans: garage is such a crap genre it doesn't even EXIST in the US). I doubt you'll see major developments in the mainstream, unless the music industry as we know it really does topple (fat chance). I'm sure behind the scenes there'll be people experimenting, challenging the fabric of music itself and how we view it, but this is always going on, and it never filters to the surface because people tend to prefer the stuff they're familiar with. Besides, so much 'challenging' and 'experimental' music often misses the point by just breaking as many conventions as possible, which might be sometimes interesting, but isn't often inspiring.

I'm interested in seeing where extreme metal goes. It's only recently getting recognised as having some of the most technically gifted musicians in the world, but at the same time it's stagnating somewhat. To escape it, bands are either getting so pretentious it's painful or they're swinging right off the other end of the spectrum to the point of practically spitting on the idea of well-structured riffs and songs. Personally, I'm interested in what you have left over when you cut away practically all the bullshit pretentions and lay down just the bare bones of emotion to song.
Click to expand...
What a good post and all I could be stuffed typing was "It'll suck ass"

Yeah reminds me, makes me so sad to think that stupid idiots will buy music just becasue it's "cool" and has naked women in the video's. There's no way you can compare mainstream music too the majority of pre 80's music. I think most people I know would agree with me but woulden't want to look unco, ffs I don't think I've ever pretended to like or not like music to be cool, it's a pretty uncool thing to do.

Some people will go as far as to say fifty bucks ot whatever he's name is, is better then queen. Makes me wanna puke.
 
Sigh.. don't look back with rose-tinted glasses people.

There is and always will be utter trash and quality music.
 
ComradeBadger said:
Sigh.. don't look back with rose-tinted glasses people.

There is and always will be utter trash and quality music.
Click to expand...

Very true indeed. All that changes is what's popular in the mainstream. The real progression, innovation and change happens in the underground. Then the big record companies buy it out, process it, package it and present it to the masses as 'the next big thing'.
 
I don't really care about what happens to any other music besides the music I like. And the music I like is computer synthesized/generated. So, obviously it will evolve as computers do with more and more advanced logarithms and generators, and also an incline in independent music makers (I'm look at you Harij, forgive me if I shouldn't be) so the future for music from MY perspective is good :D

And if the mainstream is going to die like you guys say it will, good for me too because I just hate it ;)
 
yeah the electronic music scene is definitely going to improve. I dunno how much it's going to evolve, but it's a good idea to take a look at the music making discussion forums out there.. know some people who are very creative and unique in their approach to music. there's alot of ideas that people experiment with, i think surround music is going to get big. it sounds so damn amazing! just google for music in ac3 format.
 
I have to agree with Vegeta.

Most of what I listen to is computer produced and/or generated (hell, I'm listening to a new Moby CD now) and that mainstream is already crap. On a little side note, I hate how people are against computer plus music. Everything I play some of the stuff I like to listen to on speakers, select people "uhg" is disgust. Do they understand that rap is all computer? There's no live instruments. It's all computer-done. So is most music.
 
CrazyHarij said:
i think surround music is going to get big. it sounds so damn amazing! just google for music in ac3 format.
Click to expand...
Ah! I was looking for something like that when I got my 5.1 speakers, but couldn't find anything! ac3 you say? How many channels does it have? Are 5.1 speakers enough?
 
Angry Lawyer said:
Badger - the problem is, the quality songs being released are still good, but they're being drowned by a flood of crap R&B, rap, and manufactured pop music.

-Angry Lawyer
Click to expand...
always were, we just dont remember those
 
R&B, rap, and pop didn't become bad until the 90s. Before then, it was all good. I mean, am I the only one who loves classic R&B?
 
I'm in the same boat as Ennui. Bad music has always been there. We just see the past as this great treasure-trove of music because all the junk has been filtered out by time, since no one bothers to save the mediocre stuff.

I'm still finding bands every month on recommendations and random searching that I love, and I don't see it stopping anytime soon.
 
Good music is being made now and will continue to be made. Sure, you may need to look harder for it but its certainly there.
 
^ Exactly. The reason why people think music is worse these days is because they only remember the good bands from yesteryear.

For music to be good it has to stand the test of time. Who in 60 years time will still be listening to Nelly's "It's Hot in Here"?
 
Rap has to die eventually, someday, somebody will realize how boring and un-original it has become and it will have to die

Although, I see rock making a strong comeback (not punk or metal, that shit sucks)
 
DeusExMachina said:
Have you listened to good rap? Or real metal? Punk died in the 80s anyway.
Click to expand...
What about Nirvana? Even Blood Sugar Sex Magik was unique blend of Funk, Punk and Rock.

I hate to reinforce previous comments, but we have seen some truely great music in the last six years.

Just look

Radiohead's Kid A=Brilliant
The Arcade Fire's Funeral=Brilliant
Sufjan Steven's Illinios=Brilliant
Modest Mouse's the moon and antartica=Brilliant

And you can't leave out Wolf parade,the Faunts, Art Brut, Greetings from michigan, the new pornographers, the strokes( before they sucked), the flaming lips, iron and wine, built to spill etc etc etc

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean its not there.
 
I think the industry will split pretty majorly sooner or later between Arcade Fire, Radiohead type bands that start with a niche audience and do things differently, and the mainstream which will inevitably get worse due to continued commercialization (American Idol etc). Oh, I can also see what Harij is saying about IDM and electronic sounds moving into the mainstream. I think albums like Kid A will be seen as pretty ahead of the time when a lot of bands start incorporating it into their sounds.

I'm worried right now the future of British rock will be defined by Arctic Monkeys etc though since they're all so stupidly samey it's just not funny.
 
The only real movement in music that we've seen as far as I'm concerned is the growing ability for people to find music that they like, which has led to fracturing of tastes and genres. Since we can all make our personal playlists and buy music one song at a time we essentially make up our own "genres" (This album is very Greg).

"Mainstream" just becomes increasingly irrelevent when the playing field between indie acts and major-label bands gets as flat as its become.
 
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