"White house report says people cause global warming"

ShadowFox said:
Here is the actual report: http://www.usgcrp.gov/usgcrp/Library/ocp2004-5/default.htm

While it is interesting, it fails to take into account some important climatological indicators which show the planet may actually cool in the next few years due to natural phenomenon.
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Aside from the theoretical scenerios of increased cloud formation due to increased temperatures causing the albedo to rise I havn't heard of any potential natural phehomenons that might lower the earths average temperature.
 
"white house report says people cause global warming"

REALLY?! and I thought all this time that it was those sneaky chipmunks.
 
Well, one for instance is evidenced in ENSO data. Look at this chart. As you can see, during the period of warming we have been experiencing the ENSO 3 anomoly has been cool, but it is trending back to a warm phase.

Another more widely known theory (and I emphasize theory) is the concept that warming on a global scale could actually trigger a cataclysmic change in ocean currents. The one focused on the most is the Gulf Stream which, in the right circumstances could shut down and make NA and especially Europe much, much colder. What global effect this could have remains to be seen.

Keep in mind I am not dispelling CO2 gases. I am just not ready to commit myself to that school of thought until more extensive research is done which more thoroughly includes climatology.
 
Dang, someone posted before me about the north atlantic current theory (which is a pretty solid theory, ironically). Dang.
 
The Mullinator said:
Aside from the theoretical scenerios of increased cloud formation due to increased temperatures causing the albedo to rise I havn't heard of any potential natural phehomenons that might lower the earths average temperature.
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A lot of temperture variance has to do with the distance between the earth and the sun.

This was a contributing factor of the black death. Among numerous other factors, the earth was in a cooling trend which reduced the food capacity for an expanding population in Europe.
 
For a minute there I thought you meant it came from the heat from people's bodies :P
 
blahblahblah said:
This was a contributing factor of the black death. Among numerous other factors, the earth was in a cooling trend which reduced the food capacity for an expanding population in Europe.
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The black death was from fleas passing it to humans and living on black rats, the rats carrying the disease would have come to Britain anyway due to trade (and did). I dont see how a food shortage has anything to do with it. Please educate me :)
 
I guess I should stop farting so much then...
 
I actually expected someone to say this.... that we expend to much carbon dioxide breathing.
 
heh the day after tommorow.......with a few major changes :D. I dont blame the US government for not doing enough, if they do anything the economy will defainly suffer, so they get voted out. If only there were an agreement between the two parties to do something.....
 
The rest of the developed world is investing money into enviromental technology and projects. But the US, supposedly up their ears in money, can't do the same?

The sad truth is that they don't do anything because there's no profit in it.
 
The changes we have been having are very small compared to the changes that have taken place over the earths life.
 
Oh dear god. No wonder things are going down with the world when we have people like these in charge. :|

:laugh:
 
right now I'd have the economy go to pot as oppose to living in an ice box in 30 years.

Anyway, none of this is really new, they're just bringing it up again in the hope that something will be done about it, but nothing ever is.
 
I still don't believe there is such a thing as Global warming.

There IS a much simpler solution.

Thermonetors = City = Concrete = hold heat in.

If you go to the more wooded areas, away from major cities, the temps haven't changed much over the years. Just 6 miles from the first real city for me, and the temp change from my house to the city is 6-10 degrees. All that concrete makes things ALOT hotter, as it holds the heat in.
 
A2597 said:
I still don't believe there is such a thing as Global warming.

There IS a much simpler solution.

Thermonetors = City = Concrete = hold heat in.

If you go to the more wooded areas, away from major cities, the temps haven't changed much over the years. Just 6 miles from the first real city for me, and the temp change from my house to the city is 6-10 degrees. All that concrete makes things ALOT hotter, as it holds the heat in.
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You don't think they take temperatures from large open spaces?
 
A2597 said:
I still don't believe there is such a thing as Global warming.

There IS a much simpler solution.

Thermonetors = City = Concrete = hold heat in.

If you go to the more wooded areas, away from major cities, the temps haven't changed much over the years. Just 6 miles from the first real city for me, and the temp change from my house to the city is 6-10 degrees. All that concrete makes things ALOT hotter, as it holds the heat in.
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They take the average temeperature of the whole earth, not just in the cities.

Besides:
Thomas Graedel, an industrial ecologist at Yale University, has reviewed the US government's climate change research strategy and says the report's acknowledgment of a human influence on global warming is encouraging.

"Well over 98% of scientists competent in this area would agree with that," he told New Scientist.
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Its obviously an estimate by one climatologist but I would certainly trust that 98% of climatologists and other related scientists are using the proper information. I would trust them more than anyone else.
 
heh, its hilarious how governments take ten years longer than the average person to figure things out :O
 
heh thats not true hatrabbit. Loads of people seem to believe that it doesnt exist, but they still believe in the tooth fairy :P
 
Fat Tony! said:
heh thats not true hatrabbit. Loads of people seem to believe that it doesnt exist, but they still believe in the tooth fairy :P
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You mean... The tooth fairy doesn't exist?? ;(

But... All that money...
 
oldagerocker said:
The black death was from fleas passing it to humans and living on black rats, the rats carrying the disease would have come to Britain anyway due to trade (and did). I dont see how a food shortage has anything to do with it. Please educate me :)
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Fleas and rats played a part in it, but there were other things going on that amplified the black death.

- During this period of time in Europe, population was beginning to boom. Cities started to become important economic centers.
- Cities were becoming overcrowed. Closed, cramped quaters with poor sanitary means made this worse
- The earth was in a cooling trend during the black death
- Because of this cooling trend, crops started to fail with more frequency.
- This crop failure created a food shortage which created a famine. Since people were unable to be properly nourised, their immune systems were much weaker than normal.

Throw in a couple of fleas, you have the ingredients to kill 40% of Europe.
 
A2597 said:
I still don't believe there is such a thing as Global warming.

There IS a much simpler solution.

Thermonetors = City = Concrete = hold heat in.

If you go to the more wooded areas, away from major cities, the temps haven't changed much over the years. Just 6 miles from the first real city for me, and the temp change from my house to the city is 6-10 degrees. All that concrete makes things ALOT hotter, as it holds the heat in.
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mountains most definately have more concrete like natural rock aswell as other parts of the earth, but thats been around since everything started

considering the size of the earth, and the relative amount of concrete we have around , it's such an insignificant amount it wouldnt make a difference, city's combined probably make up about 2 or 3% of the earth's surface, probably not even that.

what is real here is the carbon dioxide amounts collecting in the atmosphere (due to us pumping it as a Bi product 'continuously' everyday) , the green house effect is very real.

It's just some people would prefer to dismiss it , aslong as their life is good and they carry on living the way they always have, but the truth of the matter can be a very different thing.

its definately a number of factor's, but the greenhouse effect is the most discerning and dominant factor, which is the steadily increasing cause of not allowing as much radiated heat off the surface and back into space
 
clarky003 said:
its definately a number of factor's, but the greenhouse effect is the most discerning and dominant factor, which is the steadily increasing cause of not allowing as much radiated heat off the surface and back into space
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I find it funny how you make statements like this. A scientist would never make such a declarative statement such as this or they would be laughed at.

I'd also like you to keep in mind that the greenhouse shouldn't be looked at as evil. Without the greenhouse effect, none of us would be alive. It is a very natural process. Now, CO2 emissions are a problem, and they should be cut down. But currently the main reason is pollution, not global warming which in my mind hasn't been thoroughly connected to human activities.

Yes, there are those who want to keep things status quo due to their agenda. But don't forget that proponents of human causes have agendas as well.
 
ShadowFox said:
I find it funny how you make statements like this. A scientist would never make such a declarative statement such as this or they would be laughed at.

I'd also like you to keep in mind that the greenhouse shouldn't be looked at as evil. Without the greenhouse effect, none of us would be alive. It is a very natural process. Now, CO2 emissions are a problem, and they should be cut down. But currently the main reason is pollution, not global warming which in my mind hasn't been thoroughly connected to human activities.

Yes, there are those who want to keep things status quo due to their agenda. But don't forget that proponents of human causes have agendas as well.
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1.Im not a scientist, and science is changing. Taking on a more mystical approach, as key factors to our existence are beyond our perception, which we constantly ignore, science need's to include out of perceputory phenomena in order to further understand forces in the universe, afterall we still dont know what an electron is, only its effects. So I laugh at scientist's for being so big headed for all these years. We essentially still dont know diddly squat about our universe , again only labeling everythings effectual properties ,.

2.I dont think it's evil, The green house effect needs to be balanced to keep a stable, life torrelable climate, how can you think its evil :rolling:. its nature

3.you dont need to scientifically discover it happening, for it actually to be happening, The human element here seems to be our only concern :| . + we are often short sighted, and never have truely taken the bigger picture seriously, a reflection of our projected self obsorbant way's of life.

lol, n e way, as you know there's practical science, and there's also observational science, there's also a thing called stating the obvious.
 
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