Why the future doesn't needs us

[Sprafa]

http://www.primitivism.com/future.htm

 

[Pogrom]

Fascinating reading. Very cool link Sprafa :thumbs: I'm not finished yet, but I came across these cool quotes:

Regarding constructing a Missile Defence Shield:

Though it might be possible, at vast expense, to construct local defense systems that would 'only' let through a few percent of ballistic missiles, the much touted idea of a national umbrella was nonsense.

and

Clarke continued: "Looking into my often cloudy crystal ball, I suspect that a total defense might indeed be possible in a century or so. But the technology involved would produce, as a by-product, weapons so terrible that no one would bother with anything as primitive as ballistic missiles."

I'm also quite taken with the question:

If we do manage to digitise our consciousness, and exist in silicon or nanotech form, will we even be human anymore? Or would our perception of the world have changed so much that we cannot function as human anymore?

Back, now, to the reading...

 

[Sprafa]

First let us postulate that the computer scientists succeed in developing intelligent machines that can do all things better than human beings can do them. In that case presumably all work will be done by vast, highly organized systems of machines and no human effort will be necessary. Either of two cases might occur. The machines might be permitted to make all of their own decisions without human oversight, or else human control over the machines might be retained.

If the machines are permitted to make all their own decisions, we can't make any conjectures as to the results, because it is impossible to guess how such machines might behave. We only point out that the fate of the human race would be at the mercy of the machines. It might be argued that the human race would never be foolish enough to hand over all the power to the machines. But we are suggesting neither that the human race would voluntarily turn power over to the machines nor that the machines would willfully seize power. What we do suggest is that the human race might easily permit itself to drift into a position of such dependence on the machines that it would have no practical choice but to accept all of the machines' decisions. As society and the problems that face it become more and more complex and machines become more and more intelligent, people will let machines make more of their decisions for them, simply because machine-made decisions will bring better results than man-made ones. Eventually a stage may be reached at which the decisions necessary to keep the system running will be so complex that human beings will be incapable of making them intelligently. At that stage the machines will be in effective control. People won't be able to just turn the machines off, because they will be so dependent on them that turning them off would amount to suicide.

On the other hand it is possible that human control over the machines may be retained. In that case the average man may have control over certain private machines of his own, such as his car or his personal computer, but control over large systems of machines will be in the hands of a tiny elite - just as it is today, but with two differences. Due to improved techniques the elite will have greater control over the masses; and because human work will no longer be necessary the masses will be superfluous, a useless burden on the system. If the elite is ruthless they may simply decide to exterminate the mass of humanity. If they are humane they may use propaganda or other psychological or biological techniques to reduce the birth rate until the mass of humanity becomes extinct, leaving the world to the elite. Or, if the elite consists of soft-hearted liberals, they may decide to play the role of good shepherds to the rest of the human race.

They will see to it that everyone's physical needs are satisfied, that all children are raised under psychologically hygienic conditions, that everyone has a wholesome hobby to keep him busy, and that anyone who may become dissatisfied undergoes "treatment" to cure his "problem." Of course, life will be so purposeless that people will have to be biologically or psychologically engineered either to remove their need for the power process or make them "sublimate" their drive for power into some harmless hobby. These engineered human beings may be happy in such a society, but they will most certainly not be free. They will have been reduced to the status of domestic animals.

I especially enjoy this part... written by... well. read the article.

And please don't make this a SDI discussion.

 

[Pogrom]

I especially enjoy this part... written by... well. read the article.

And please don't make this a SDI discussion.

Ahem... SDI?

*goes looking up wikipedia*

*comes back empty handed*

Anyway...

Your quote is simply Brave New World, except the human controllers have been replaced with machines. Or alternatively, there are a small number of human controllers controlling the controlling machines (whew!).

Once we have eliminated all wants/needs from our society, or they are readily available, you need something to focus people's attention. Or you make it so they are genetically engineered to like what they are given.

Either way, the masses are reduced to human-like cattle, with the only true humans being the controllers.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Ahem... SDI?

*goes looking up wikipedia*

*comes back empty handed*

Meaning missle defense.

 

[Pogrom]

Meaning missle defense.

Ah, thanks. Wiki came back with a list a mile long for the acronym SDI.

After some thought, I've come to the conclusion that I would like to proceed with this research to see where it will go. Perhaps it is still that I am young, that I am suffering from the same zeal/blindness as the author of the article did in his youth. Shown particularly when when he didn't pay attention to the chapter entitled "Dangers and Hopes" until he was much older.

I can recognise the potential for disaster, and quite frankly I'd be happy if we never knew the destructive capacity of GNR technology. I'm just fascinated by the concept of immortality almost realised, almost transcending the human condition.

Maybe we won't be human any more. But maybe we will, with so much more thrown in. And the beauty of it is that it is not wealth-dependant once the discoveries have been made. It (appears) that it will side-step that sci-fi cliche of a class/tiered system - the haves and have-nots. i.e. everybody can afford it.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[pomegranate]

Strategic Defence Initiative
...or was that Command and Conquer..
<thinks>
Nope, that was GDI

 

[Kangy]

It's Terminator 3 all over again!

 

[Sprafa]

It's Terminator 3 all over again!

it's actually worse. There's no way we can stop the Machines.

A Grey Goo disaster could end up with self-replicating air carriable nanotechnology eating away all of Earth's resources (possibly including US).

 

[Pogrom]

it's actually worse. There's no way we can stop the Machines.

A Grey Goo disaster could end up with self-replicating air carriable nanotechnology eating away all of Earth's resources (possibly including US).

True, we might not even be talking about machines as we know them. Certainly not like in Terminator 3 and the Matrix.

It'll be something like the entire world changing into dust.

 

[SenorDingDong]

Theres a simple soloution to this problem. All machines, computers have programming instructions to tell them what to do.

Don't program Machines to think for themselves. Done.

 

[Max_Payne]

what happens if they have already figured that out? lol jk.

I remember reading in the 2001 guiness book of world records, that a man tore apart a sony walkman, and rebuilt it into a robot...using only the parts that he dismantled. the robot could move, respond too ten different prgramed commands. When held, it struggled, wanting to break free. Kinda creepy if ya ask me. this out of a standard walkman.

PEACE

Mike

 

[pomegranate]

a tape walkman?

 

[GiaOmerta]

I did a presentation on nanotechnology (manufactoring at a nanometer scale nanometer = billionth of a meter) Some interesting stuff. We all know technology is a double edged sword so I looked into the risks and the potential downsides of Nanotechnology.

Grey goo came up. Yes, it sucks, but can be preventable.

But, also look at the benefits of Nanotechnology.
Possible end of disease.
Automatic factories which could harvest the materials from the soil, ect.

Look at our bodies. The perfect machine. None other measures up to it. While some see genetic inperfection. I see the future. In our stubborn ignorance, we ignore the potential in which our bodies hold.

It's a beautiful example and a model for lesser machines.
Imagine a completely artificial body. Composed of bio-mechanical materials. Imagine no disease. Just imagine.

Sorry, just I get off on this stuff. Good day.

 

[JellyWorld]

that's a beautiful written article, if anyone wants to see Kaczynski's manifesto its on wikipedia here

http://wikisource.org/wiki/Industrial_Society_and_Its_Future