Wikileaks due to leak another 2.8 million documents

yeah I'm willing to be the US govt is trying to shut them down, but in all honesty, there are thousands of other major websites they can release the leaks on. i seriously don't know what stance i take on this. on one side I'm all for it, for freedom is truth, but on the other hand this could be horrendous on foreign relationships built over the past how many years
 
wow, I read like a 1/3rd of that Monkey and this is going to get ugly
 
I like to think that 99% of these documents are requisition forms for more toilet paper and other such cleaning supplies.
 
Sounds like most of the documents are just about how people are talking shit about one another. Ooooh big surprise :|
 
also 2.8 million documents. I'm sure as hell that no one could read all of those in a years time
 
This is incredibly careless to release names of people in incredibly sensitive positions like that. I'm all for government transparency, but not when lives are put at such risk to do so.
 
I suppose since Assange is Austrailian, he can't face criminal charges, unless it's something like espionage.
 
Maestro said:
This is incredibly careless to release names of people in incredibly sensitive positions like that. I'm all for government transparency, but not when lives are put at such risk to do so.
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Nothing I've heard about these documents would really put any lives at stake. Like I said, it sounds mostly like people talking curtly about others. Ooooo people talk shit behind people's backs! Big surprise. Saudis want Iran attacked, OMG NEVER SAW THAT COMING.

It all sounds like "no shit" kind of information.
 
Krynn72 said:
It all sounds like "no shit" kind of information.
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Same to me.

Grave fears in Washington and London over the security of Pakistan's nuclear weapons programme, with officials warning that as the country faces economic collapse, government employees could smuggle out enough nuclear material for terrorists to build a bomb.
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I have these same fears. OH THE HORROR.

Suspicions of corruption in the Afghan government,
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Does anyone honestly believe there isn't corruption?
 
It's not about the information that is revealed, it's about who's doing the revealing. If they're involved in some kind of low-level stuff, you can bet they probably have at least a few fingers in the high-tier pie, too. I might also mention that shitty stuff said behind each others' backs has a tremendous potential for damaging diplomatic relations in sensitive areas (like, oh, the Middle East?).

In addition, Wikileaks is under a DDoS right now, meaning a full picture of what's been revealed may not be seen for some time. 2.8 million documents means there is going to be dangerous information in there, somewhere. It could easily turn out to be like the Afghan war documents release on a massive scale, with espionage charges abounding in a variety of countries. Julian Assange has proven himself to be careless of anything aside from revealing information, and that irresponsibility is careless of human life.

As I said, transparency is good. It is not good when people could be killed because of this.
 
Can't wait for people like Stern and No Limit to tell you that your wrong and how this "truth" is more important then the lives that might be lost......

:p
 
Maestro said:
It's not about the information that is revealed, it's about who's doing the revealing. If they're involved in some kind of low-level stuff, you can bet they probably have at least a few fingers in the high-tier pie, too. I might also mention that shitty stuff said behind each others' backs has a tremendous potential for damaging diplomatic relations in sensitive areas (like, oh, the Middle East?).

In addition, Wikileaks is under a DDoS right now, meaning a full picture of what's been revealed may not be seen for some time. 2.8 million documents means there is going to be dangerous information in there, somewhere. It could easily turn out to be like the Afghan war documents release on a massive scale, with espionage charges abounding in a variety of countries. Julian Assange has proven himself to be careless of anything aside from revealing information, and that irresponsibility is careless of human life.

As I said, transparency is good. It is not good when people could be killed because of this.
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And what about all the lives that have already been lost and will continue to be lost due to the government not having any amount of accountability due to hiding information?
 
more then half the shit that's so leaked so far Krynn is simply just embarrassing U.S diplomats,I really though you could see trough this bullshit.Why does the public have to know about that we talk trash about people like Berlusconi it does nothing more then having relations with Italy harder.Or how much more paranoid do you Kim Jong Il is now that he knows that we wanted to re-unify Korea and dismantle the Government from within? We all knew it was gonna happen eventually but it's going to be alot harder now.Does knowing this stuff make you sleep better at night?
It's one thing to release a video that shows the US committing questionable acts in Iraq or Afghanistan.This however is just a personal PR war waged against the US by that little feminine douche.
 
Iran May Have Missiles from North Korea, Cables Posted by WikiLeaks Show
Iran obtained 19 advanced missiles from North Korea, potentially giving the Islamic nation the capability of attacking Moscow and cities in Western Europe, according to embassy cables posted by WikiLeaks.org and provided to the New York Times.

U.S. officials denounced the release, coming on the eve of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s departure for a security conference in the Persian Gulf, as jeopardizing U.S. ties with foreign governments and endangering individuals. WikiLeaks began posting the cables yesterday.

The 19 North Korean BM-25 missiles, based on a Russian design known as the R-27, might give Iran the “building blocks” for producing long-range missiles, according to a Feb. 24 cable posted on WikiLeaks. The cable didn’t provide specific evidence, according to the Times, which agreed not to publish the document at the Obama administration’s request.

“North Korea and Iran have had a decades-long missile relationship and also most likely a nuclear relationship,” said Bruce Klingner, an analyst at the Heritage Foundation in Washington and former chief of the Central Intelligence Agency’s Korea branch. “The leaking of the classified documents provides a greater sense of confidence” for analysis conducted previously by outside experts and most recently illustrated in photos from a North Korean parade, he said.
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The Pentagon said yesterday it will take action to prevent future reoccurrences, such as monitoring user behavior in a way similar to steps taken by credit-card companies to detect fraud. The military will also conduct security oversight inspections at forward bases and remove the ability of classified computers to download information onto removable disks.
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Uh, you think?
more: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...th-korea-cables-posted-by-wikileaks-show.html
 
unozero said:
Does knowing this stuff make you sleep better at night?
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Absolutely not. Knowing how disgusting our government behaves could never make me feel better. But thats overshadowed by the comfort I get knowing that they know that we know. If this leads to a more responsible government that will actually act more ethically knowing that its citizens will be watching, then im for it. Especially since ultimately less lives will be lost due to stupid shit our government would have done normally, but didnt because they were afraid of public scrutiny. Of course then thats countered by the fact the American citizens are apathetic as ****, so nothing will be done, and our government will continue on ****ing us and everybody else in plain sight and nobody will do anything except bitch about it.


Ultimately, I'll probably sleep just as soundly as I do now. No better, no less. But for the sake of ideals, I'll feel satisfied.
 
Krynn72 said:
Absolutely not. Knowing how disgusting our government behaves could never make me feel better. But thats overshadowed by the comfort I get knowing that they know that we know. If this leads to a more responsible government that will actually act more ethically knowing that its citizens will be watching, then im for it. Especially since ultimately less lives will be lost due to stupid shit our government would have done normally, but didnt because they were afraid of public scrutiny. Of course then thats countered by the fact the American citizens are apathetic as ****, so nothing will be done, and our government will continue on ****ing us and everybody else in plain sight and nobody will do anything except bitch about it.


Ultimately, I'll probably sleep just as soundly as I do now. No better, no less. But for the sake of ideals, I'll feel satisfied.
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Now, imagine the things that you don't know. And the things that they know that you could never know. The millions of documents that you've uncovered, all the horrible things that you've found out the government was doing for you, you know that that's only the tip of the iceberg. And you can never expose the entire gargantuan behemoth of ice, no matter how hard you try, because that would be the end of government.

And nothing changes. Because for everything leaked, the government doesn't feel that she needs to act more "ethically". She feels that she needs to act more covert and secretive. That's government for you.

So, do you truly feel satisfied? More satisfied than you would have been if you didn't know anything and could have gone with your life without regard for all those horrible things that your government does?
 
Krynn72 said:
Absolutely not. Knowing how disgusting our government behaves could never make me feel better. But thats overshadowed by the comfort I get knowing that they know that we know. If this leads to a more responsible government that will actually act more ethically knowing that its citizens will be watching, then im for it. Especially since ultimately less lives will be lost due to stupid shit our government would have done normally, but didnt because they were afraid of public scrutiny. Of course then thats countered by the fact the American citizens are apathetic as ****, so nothing will be done, and our government will continue on ****ing us and everybody else in plain sight and nobody will do anything except bitch about it.


Ultimately, I'll probably sleep just as soundly as I do now. No better, no less. But for the sake of ideals, I'll feel satisfied.
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How very naive and idealistic,colour me disappointed.
 
Maestro said:
As I said, transparency is good. It is not good when people could be killed because of this.
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This is the same bullshit argument that's pulled out every time Wikileaks has posted anything this year about the U.S. and every single time, no one has ****ing died from any of it. Even the Pentagon has said so.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/11/28/1947638/no-evidence-that-wikileaks-releases.html
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/11/28/104404/officials-may-be-overstating-the.html

All they've done is expose the lies and horrible consequences of a nations (Mostly, the U.S.) terrible foreign policy. Before this, everyone who knew about Wikileaks quite liked them. Especially the conservatives that are now calling for Julian Assange to be prosecuted or assassinated, because it was Wikileaks that leaked the CRU "Climategate" emails that damaged the cause for belief in global warming.

It's always Wikileaks that is somehow more accountable for civilian and military deaths due to leaking sensitive information about other deaths of civilians in war zones. It's never the governments responsibility, even though they are always the ones who are lying or manipulating the public regarding those events and they are always the ones who are making the decisions about what is acceptable targets and collateral damage. The burden of blame always falls on the whistle-blower whenever they're blowing the whistle on America.

Apparently they have a bunch of documents on Russia that they said last month they were planning on releasing soon. When that happens, watch how no one in the American congress or press will be calling for the head of Julian Assange then.
 
Sparta said:
This is the same bullshit argument that's pulled out every time Wikileaks has posted anything this year about the U.S. and every single time, no one has ****ing died from any of it. Even the Pentagon has said so.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/11/28/1947638/no-evidence-that-wikileaks-releases.html
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/11/28/104404/officials-may-be-overstating-the.html

All they've done is expose the lies and horrible consequences of a nations (Mostly, the U.S.) terrible foreign policy. Before this, everyone who knew about Wikileaks quite liked them. Especially the conservatives that are now calling for Julian Assange to be prosecuted or assassinated, because it was Wikileaks that leaked the CRU "Climategate" emails that damaged the cause for belief in global warming.

It's always Wikileaks that is somehow more accountable for civilian and military deaths due to leaking sensitive information about other deaths of civilians in war zones. It's never the governments responsibility, even though they are always the ones who are lying or manipulating the public regarding those events and they are always the ones who are making the decisions about what is acceptable targets and collateral damage. The burden of blame always falls on the whistle-blower whenever they're blowing the whistle on America.

Apparently they have a bunch of documents on Russia that they said last month they were planning on releasing soon. When that happens, watch how no one in the American congress or press will be calling for the head of Julian Assange then.
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This isn't whistle blowing, it's the entire world spying on all the conversations between nation leaders. For example: "we are hiding the bombs that will save the world here." Don't tell me that isn't endangering anybody.

It's confidential. How about if the entire world finds out what you've been thinking or what you do in the bathroom. Is that whistle blowing? The conversation between your friend that's a girl - your girlfriend spying on your email OK with you?

And I don't know anyone that is holding Wikileaks accountable.

Many Chinese would like to see the files on a whole number of events from their own government’s archives which are tightly guarded since they contain information that could undermine the legitimacy of the Communist Party’s right to rule.

Episodes from the Great Leap Forward of 1959-62 and the famines of that followed that killed 20m-40m people, to the Cultural Revolution of 1966-76 as well as the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre remain highly politically sensitive in China.

There were reports this summer that a Politburo-level meeting had discussed just such an eventuality following the growing number of damaging memoirs being written by former senior officials.

Among these were the diary of Li Peng, the former Chinese premier who was intimately involved in the decision leading up to sending in the tanks into Tiananmen in 1989 but which was blocked from publication in China earlier this year.

Tantalisingly, on the subject of Tiananmen Square, the WikiLeaks catalogue does show four cables from June 3 1989 and one from June 5 1989 that may yet shed further light on an episode that is still officially banned from discussion in the Chinese media.

In the WikiLeaks files, the potentially most embarrassing disclosure to China is that the hack-attacks that led to Google pulling out of China were allegedly orchestrated at Politburo-level after a senior member found unflattering material about himself using the search engine.
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Anyone who claims that the US has no accountability, look around. ^

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...eas-in-heads-of-Chinese-hackers-analysis.html
 
VirusType2 said:
It's the entire world spying on all the conversations between nation leaders. For example: "we are hiding the bombs that will save the world here." Don't tell me that isn't endangering anybody.
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Sorry, but that's not endangering anybody and that is a massive bullshit argument. That's like arguing that we should allow water-boarding because there might be a ticking time bomb 24-style situation one day. It's bullshit. There is nothing like that in these leaks. These leaks are far more mundane, yet still warrant national interest.

In fact, they're probably going to help the U.S. deal with one of it's biggest problems in a better manner than they could have predicted. Every single leak that's coming out about Iran suggests that everyone thinks Iran is a serious, serious danger and for once it's not the warhawks saying that Iran is a danger. It's every one of Iran's neighbours that think it's Ahmadinejad is nuts and they're the ones pressuring the U.S. to waste him.

VirusType2 said:
It's confidential. How about if the entire world finds out what you've been thinking or what you do in the bathroom. Is that whistle blowing? The conversation between your friend that's a girl - your girlfriend spying on your email OK with you?
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Yes, because two U.S. Secretary of States Condaleeza Rice and Hilary Clinton both ordering diplomats to gather DNA, credit card numbers and email passwords on foreign UN diplomats for espionage purposes, or revealing that the Palestinian Authority has the secret backing of the Israeli military and was approached to cooperate in Operation Cast Lead, or that the U.S. has been carrying out drone attacks in Yemen, all of those things are clearly equivalent to water-cooler gossip and my girlfriend reading my email. Yeah.

VirusType2 said:
And I don't know anyone that is holding Wikileaks accountable.
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Have you read any article on Wikileaks?

By almost any news organization?

Anywhere?

Ever?

Last time I checked (which was, RIGHT NOW) EVERYONE is holding Wikileaks accountable for what they're doing, my god man. Many people now want Assange arrested if not killed.

Or were you making the ridiculous argument that Wikileaks should be as transparent as they want world powers to be? Because Wikileaks and the U.S. are obviously the same thing.

VirusType2 said:
Anyone who claims that the US has no accountability, look around. ^

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...eas-in-heads-of-Chinese-hackers-analysis.html
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"It could be worse" is not a good defensive argument. It's not even an argument, it's just lame.
 
I think Wikileaks is going to be the final nail in the coffin of net neutrality. I hope they're proud because that's a hell of an accomplishment...

I mean really. Why is this necessary? What is this going to do for the average joe on the street? This isn't helping anyone. As election time comes along you'll vote people in to office that do the same things the same way if not worse. The same stuff has been happening in government and ****ing humanity forever. People say things behind other people's back that they don't say to their face. People with power are corrupted. Money will change hands where no one ever thought money could go. Very few people will actually read these even a fair chunk of these. Most will read excerpts and summaries of the ones that are most sensationalized by the media. Even more will read the reactions of those people that read the summaries and base their reactions on that, just like most every big deal in the news. It will cause all of this unnecessary shitstorm for... what? "EXPOSURE"? That's bullshit. This isn't transparent government anymore. This is like going in to your ex's e-mails and then posting them on facebook or something. This does. not. help. anyone. anywhere.
 
StarBob said:
I think Wikileaks is going to be the final nail in the coffin of net neutrality. I hope they're proud because that's a hell of an accomplishment...

I mean really. Why is this necessary? What is this going to do for the average joe on the street? This isn't helping anyone. As election time comes along you'll vote people in to office that do the same things the same way if not worse. The same stuff has been happening in government and ****ing humanity forever. People say things behind other people's back that they don't say to their face. People with power are corrupted. Money will change hands where no one ever thought money could go. Very few people will actually read these even a fair chunk of these. Most will read excerpts and summaries of the ones that are most sensationalized by the media. Even more will read the reactions of those people that read the summaries and base their reactions on that, just like most every big deal in the news. It will cause all of this unnecessary shitstorm for... what? "EXPOSURE"? That's bullshit. This isn't transparent government anymore. This is like going in to your ex's e-mails and then posting them on facebook or something. This does. not. help. anyone. anywhere.
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yeah thats what I think is the worst case scenario

dont think goverments will be so tolerant to this or will try to downplay it

anyway to me this whole leak was really like a window into the behind scene stuff so severe is really astonishing considering everyone can see it

but as Is aid before I dont like wikilieaks too much for the "power" they gathering whit these which is probably to show muscle to let everyone know what they can get in theyr hands
and I dont buy the image of "superhero organization that wants to reveal all secrets" even if they have prooved it,though I still wait to see any leak of other big countryes like russia or china

still the data that was made avaible is really astonishing imo and yes I also fear this lead to more internet control

EDIt: and I knew it, ahmadinejadh says wikileaks is a "game" by the usa

from theyr official "press" http://www.presstv.ir/detail/153128.html
 
lol it's kind of appalling the lengths some people will go to allow authority to do whatever it damn pleases. so much so that they'll call for imprisonment or worse yet; death to someone who is merely a conduit for the leaking of classified information



This isn't whistle blowing, it's the entire world spying on all the conversations between nation leaders. For example: "we are hiding the bombs that will save the world here." Don't tell me that isn't endangering anybody.
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this is absolutely ridiculous point
 
unozero said:
Can't wait for people like Stern and No Limit to tell you that your wrong and how this "truth" is more important then the lives that might be lost......

:p
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So how many people died as a direct result of the last few leaks? There they screwed up (in my opinion) by publishing the names of informats. And even with that, didn't really hear of any confirmed deaths as a result. Have you?

And what specific information in these leaks will lead to the loss of life?
 
StarBob said:
I think Wikileaks is going to be the final nail in the coffin of net neutrality. I hope they're proud because that's a hell of an accomplishment...

I mean really. Why is this necessary? What is this going to do for the average joe on the street? This isn't helping anyone. As election time comes along you'll vote people in to office that do the same things the same way if not worse. The same stuff has been happening in government and ****ing humanity forever. People say things behind other people's back that they don't say to their face. People with power are corrupted. Money will change hands where no one ever thought money could go. Very few people will actually read these even a fair chunk of these. Most will read excerpts and summaries of the ones that are most sensationalized by the media. Even more will read the reactions of those people that read the summaries and base their reactions on that, just like most every big deal in the news. It will cause all of this unnecessary shitstorm for... what? "EXPOSURE"? That's bullshit. This isn't transparent government anymore. This is like going in to your ex's e-mails and then posting them on facebook or something. This does. not. help. anyone. anywhere.
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So now people are going to blame the death of net neutrality on wikileaks? You can't possibly be serious.

And yes, this is kind of like going through your ex's emails and then posting them on facebook. IF you ex was spying on world leaders, helping to bring dictators to power, torturing people, and killing people then under reporting those deaths. And that's just what has been reported in the last 24 hours, more is sure to come out since it takes time to comb through 250,000 documents. And that doesn't include the 2 more million that are supposed to come out in the coming months.
 
No Limit said:
So now people are going to blame the death of net neutrality on wikileaks? You can't possibly be serious.
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Apparently someone has never heard the term "final nail in the coffin." It's also phrased as "straw that broke the camel's back." It could also be called the "death blow." What it means is that it was the last thing in a series of things that lead to an conclusion. It doesn't mean it was the cause of it. I guess some people have learned something today.

Also, a lot of what has been released was already fairly common knowledge. None of it that I've seen so far was anything outside of what I expected the government to be doing on a daily basis at any point. The only reason this is even anything is because of the way it was release and the media coverage of it. The fact remains that it does nothing to help anyone anywhere at any point do anything. There's no positive aspect to this. Are a handful of people more aware of the day to day workings of a globally interacting national government? Yeah. Can you, me, or even a massive chunk of people who might even be a little pissed off do anything about it? Not a chance. Like I said, your only voice in the government is who you elect and no matter how wholesome the person you pick and regardless of party affiliations, things like this will continue to happen as long as it is advantageous to the US government for it to do so. The only thing this has done was fan flames that didn't even exist about things that cannot be changed and most of which don't even matter.
 
Starbob said:
It's also phrased as "straw that broke the camel's back." It could also be called the "death blow." What it means is that it was the last thing in a series of things that lead to an conclusion. It doesn't mean it was the cause of it.
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I dont see how that would be effective against assage; he's nowhere near the US and jurisdictions are notoriously hard to enforce on the web
 
I am fully aware of what "final nail in the coffin" means. What I don't get is why in the world you would try to connect these leaks to net neutrality. How are the 2 even remotely connected? Are you suggesting that people will want ISPs to now block certain sites because of what wikileaks did? If that's what you are saying then those people don't know what net neutrality is and would be against it anyway with or without wikileaks.

And the whole "nothing will change so don't release it" argument is lame and you should know better. You might be right that nothing will change, and that's a sad statement about the american people. But that's not an excuse for not constantly throwing information out at the american public in the hope that something might stick.

Clearly you don't agree with alot of the things our government has done which these documents revealed, correct? So why would you be against disclosure of these actions in a democracy?
 
Republican Congressman calls on Obama to declare wikileaks a terrorist organisation

ZOMG TERR'ISTS

As the fallout from this weekend's document drop continues, at least one US Congressman wants the US government to go on the offensive. Rep. Peter King (R-NY), who will be chairing the House's Homeland Security Committee come January, sent letters to Obama administration officials on Sunday, asking that Wikileaks and its public face, Julian Assange, be declared both terrorists and spies.
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http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/11/congressman-calls-for-anti-wikileaks-offensive.ars

seems to echo some of the things people are saying in this thread ..so lunacy does love company
 
Plus it is not legal for the president to go out and assassinate known terrorists. I'm assuming that's what Peter King is hoping for. I wonder if he also thinks that anyone who releases the name of covert CIA operatives should be labeled a terrorist as well.
 
No Limit said:
I am fully aware of what "final nail in the coffin" means. What I don't get is why in the world you would try to connect these leaks to net neutrality. How are the 2 even remotely connected? Are you suggesting that people will want ISPs to now block certain sites because of what wikileaks did? If that's what you are saying then those people don't know what net neutrality is and would be against it anyway with or without wikileaks.

And the whole "nothing will change so don't release it" argument is lame and you should know better. You might be right that nothing will change, and that's a sad statement about the american people. But that's not an excuse for not constantly throwing information out at the american public in the hope that something might stick.

Clearly you don't agree with alot of the things our government has done which these documents revealed, correct? So why would you be against disclosure of these actions in a democracy?
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Is it not impossible that with the government controlling the internet that they could easily remove web sites they could possibly in any way consider treasonous? By the way, revealing secret government information is treasonous. Even if they couldn't manifest that kind of control (they could), it's painfully obvious that in the past, bills have been passed because of events completely unrelated to the purpose of the actual bill. A prime example is some of the more insane aspects of the Patriot Act that were passed soley because of the fear associated with 9/11. This is a big news event that has very little actual bearing on net neutrality, but because Wikileaks is a web site and it pissed the wrong people off, it can easily be used to sway people and politicians. Like I said, final nail in the coffin doesn't mean it is the reason for the coffin. Money and control is the reason for the coffin. This could very well be the argument point for politicians and government officials who will live in fear of their communications going public.

Yes, it is sad that nothing will change, but you can't name a government past or present that hasn't had some level of corruption or hidden agendas. It has nothing to do with "American people," and everything to do with human nature. With power and wealth comes tyranny and greed. It's just how things have worked since people became people. That's why no matter what happens we're going to end up on the same path and no amount of transparency will change that. The only thing it's doing is getting people riled up about things that will perpetuate until some univeral utopian disposition occurs or we all end up dead.

Again, regardless of what I agree or disagree with in this massive leak, there is no goal behind all of this. There is nothing to be accomplished. Months from now this will vanish as soon as the news stations stop following it. The only legacy it could potentially leave is the loss of net neutrality (see above) and a little more distrust for Americans. The funny part about all of this is, I'm sure every other reasonable power in the world has similar situations going down, but they're all going to point to us as the terrible people.
 
StarBob said:
Is it not impossible that with the government controlling the internet that they could easily remove web sites they could possibly in any way consider treasonous? By the way, revealing secret government information is treasonous.
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no

all they can do is block it from americans which would be pretty easily defeated in court
 
StarBob, you seem to be confusing what net neutrality is. The government can already "block" sites that post illegal content by going after them legally. Currently the government has no control over ISPs, so even if net neutrality doesn't go through the government will still have no control over ISPs and the only way they could go after sites such as wikileaks is through legal action. They can't simply call up comcast and tell them to block wikileaks. The actual point of net neutrality is to give government control over ISPs, control not in the sense to to tell them what sites they can and can not block but in the sense that they must treat all internet traffic the same.

So again, net neutrality has absolutely nothing to do with the wikileaks website. And to try and place any blame on net neutrality dying on wikileaks is absurd.

And who are you to say there is no goal behind these leaks? Of course there is a goal. The goal is to expose scandals, and in some cases down right crimes, that our government is hiding from us. I don't understand how you expect to live in a democracy where the government you are supposed to vote for keeps information that might influance your vote hidden from you. That goes against the very fabric of democracy.
 
CptStern said:
no

all they can do is block it from americans which would be pretty easily defeated in court
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Actually it depends on where it's hosted. They could easily force and American hosting service to take it down. They can do that with child pornography sites right now I believe.

Anyways that's not the point. I guess you didn't read further to the part where they don't need to do have legitimate reasons to push a government controlled internet through congress. I guess it is a lot to ask Stern to read an entire post before quoting 2% of it and making an invalid point.

No Limit said:
StarBob, you seem to be confusing what net neutrality is. The government can already "block" sites that post illegal content by going after them legally. Currently the government has no control over ISPs, so even if net neutrality doesn't go through the government will still have no control over ISPs and the only way they could go after sites such as wikileaks is through legal action. They can't simply call up comcast and tell them to block wikileaks. The actual point of net neutrality is to give government control over ISPs, control not in the sense to to tell them what sites they can and can not block but in the sense that they must treat all internet traffic the same.

So again, net neutrality has absolutely nothing to do with the wikileaks website. And to try and place any blame on net neutrality dying on wikileaks is absurd.

And who are you to say there is no goal behind these leaks? Of course there is a goal. The goal is to expose scandals, and in some cases down right crimes, that our government is hiding from us. I don't understand how you expect to live in a democracy where the government you are supposed to vote for keeps information that might influance your vote hidden from you. That goes against the very fabric of democracy.
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Ok let me say it again since we're really REALLY enjoying taking parts of a post to counter a point.

I'll make it one sentence so that you can quote it accurately.

Net Neutrality doesn't have to have anything to do with this situation, it is only what the average person/politician perceives - thus making a clever lobbyist capable of saying "With a government controlled internet, sites like Wikileaks will no longer spew government secrets to the world," and that will be enough to sway the fragile minds of elderly politicians and the primary voting population.

So there you have it. That is why it is possible for this to be the end of net neutrality. That's the statement. Argue amongst yourselves the facts of whether it can or cannot stop Wikileaks from doing what it ode,s but if you look at how the government works, then you'll see this is not only possible but entirely probable. I'm sorry if it's sad, but it's just how things work until becoming a powerful leader requires more than a friendly face and the right buzz words.

I don't understand how you expect to live in a democracy where the government you are supposed to vote for keeps information that might influance your vote hidden from you.
Click to expand...
I just wanted to requote that because it's such an awesome statement. It's the epitome of every electoral campaign from the first day anyone made a campaign. If we lived in a world truly of full disclosure... wow would that ever be ugly. I don't even want to imagine that. I'm fairly cetain no one would ever be elected to any position of power...
 
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