UPDATED: Half-Life 3, Left 4 Dead 3, Source 2 + Much More Found on Valve Project Tracker

JUL3 said:
I can't believe "Gay Ben" is an inside joke with VALVe. I've always felt kinda bad (and kinda good too) about making that joke.
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only goes to show why valve is valve. and teh Gaben is teh Gayben.
 
Mythos said:
Guys... don't you feel like you're crossing a line here?

I mean, this is a big breach of Valve's privacy. You guys helped GabeN track down the guy who stole and leaked the HL2 beta ten years ago, now you're letting everyone know what Valve's been doing. Admittedly, there's not much here we didn't know about, but this is their internal database. I realize you're just reporting on it, but it's bound to be illegal somehow - and even if it's not, it's immoral, at least in my book.

I'm just saying, I don't really think this sort of thing should come out. I don't know, maybe I'll be banned for being a voice of dissent, but take note that I'm saying this in a friendly tone as my personal opinion. These leaks have been escalating too much, from the HL2:Ep3 concept art - which was relatively minor - to now uncovering every single project they work on. It's not really fair to Valve.

I dunno, just food for thought. I'm nobody, so it's not like I'm attacking you guys - I just don't feel like it's right.
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I would feel this way if there were any major leaks. Right now basically we have the code names for different games they are working on. If anyone stole legitimate information about a secret project I'd be upset.

Honestly, I'm wondering if Valve didn't intentionally leave that site open. I mean it was a pretty huge oversight if not.
 
Fatikis said:
I would feel this way if there were any major leaks. Right now basically we have the code names for different games they are working on. If anyone stole legitimate information about a secret project I'd be upset.

Honestly, I'm wondering if Valve didn't intentionally leave that site open. I mean it was a pretty huge oversight if not.
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valve is well known to "accidentially" things. like when they "accidentially" made the source SDK free when TF2 went F2P. that seemed like a huge oversight as well, but they ended up spinning it to look like it was on purpose.

i bet they knew something like this was going to happen with JIRA, and they decided to make the best out of a bad situation. and this doesnt necessarily blow the lid off alot of unknown news, but instead it just confirms alot of rumours that valve has refused to confirm.

we do not know anything past what valve has on the table. that is much different than having HL2's source code leaked.
 
Fatikis said:
I would feel this way if there were any major leaks. Right now basically we have the code names for different games they are working on. If anyone stole legitimate information about a secret project I'd be upset.

Honestly, I'm wondering if Valve didn't intentionally leave that site open. I mean it was a pretty huge oversight if not.
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Considering how you classify it as a huge oversight, you clearly can see my point. And I'm sure you realize Valve will be very affected by this - even if it's not a major leak in terms of content, it does show Valve's internal affairs to the public and there'll probably be some legitimate worries regarding how to protect their privacy better.

Look, I understand the site would not really get much to report if it wasn't for all the leaks, but it's been a crescendo. First those reveals of the eventually cancelled space game, then the Episode Three concept art, then SteamBox, Source 2, etc. I feel like we're getting closer and closer to the end of the rabbit's hole and it's probably hurting Valve more than it helps us. I can't speak for them, of course, and I doubt they wouldn't issue a cease-and-desist if they felt it was necessary, but I think we, as fans, should respect their privacy more. It's almost paparazzi by this point, and I'm afraid it may even get worse.
 
Mythos said:
I feel like we're getting closer and closer to the end of the rabbit's hole and it's probably hurting Valve more than it helps us. I can't speak for them, of course, and I doubt they wouldn't issue a cease-and-desist if they felt it was necessary, but I think we, as fans, should respect their privacy more. It's almost paparazzi by this point, and I'm afraid it may even get worse.
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i dont think i share the same view point as you. when it really comes down to it...valvetime probably wouldnt exist if you were right.

all the content leaks and things you are talking about...once again...were caused by seemingly "huge oversights" by valve.

huge oversights by the company that created the Potato ARG. something that would take such a minute and specific attention to detail to get off the ground and work properly. by the company that is re-defining video game marketing and paving new roads on the F2P highway.

this is how valve announces things. they do not go to E3 and make a big deal on stage. they do not make announcements. they do not post trailers all over the place to build hype.

they "accidentally" things. because when you allow your fanbase to "find clues" to the information you are withholding, it makes users feel as though they are participating in the development of the game, and that in time, their actions will dictate when the game is released.

that is what valve found out with Portal 2 and the Potato ARG.

dont you think its rather curious that this leaked happened just about a week after E3?

dont you think its rather curious that Steam Game Borrowing gets leaked in a beta client update, within the same hour?
 
trunk_slamchest said:
i dont think i share the same view point as you. when it really comes down to it...valvetime probably wouldnt exist if you were right.

all the content leaks and things you are talking about...once again...were caused by seemingly "huge oversights" by valve.

huge oversights by the company that created the Potato ARG. something that would take such a minute and specific attention to detail to get off the ground and work properly. by the company that is re-defining video game marketing and paving new roads on the F2P highway.

this is how valve announces things. they do not go to E3 and make a big deal on stage. they do not make announcements. they do not post trailers all over the place to build hype.

they "accidentally" things. because when you allow your fanbase to "find clues" to the information you are withholding, it makes users feel as though they are participating in the development of the game, and that in time, their actions will dictate when the game is released.

that is what valve found out with Portal 2 and the Potato ARG.

dont you think its rather curious that this leaked happened just about a week after E3?
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So your justification for leaks is "Valve made it happen"? Are you forgetting how Gabe Newell reacted when the Half-Life 2 beta was stolen? He wasn't particularly wink-wink about it.

I'm not saying it's the same thing, but Valve is a company. Their projects need to be kept secret, so I doubt Valve's idea of an ARG is leaking the entire list of products in development. Especially considering Valve is the company that withholds information on Half-Life, their original blockbuster franchise. What sort of logic do you see in a company that won't speak of that game leaking their entire list of projects?

I'm sorry, but that's a very lousy conspiracy theory - you're seeing alternate reality games and messages to fans when it's nothing of the sort. This isn't a game to them, it's a business. And this is probably hurting them.
 
Mythos said:
So your justification for leaks is "Valve made it happen"? Are you forgetting how Gabe Newell reacted when the Half-Life 2 beta was stolen? He wasn't particularly wink-wink about it.

I'm not saying it's the same thing, but Valve is a company. Their projects need to be kept secret, so I doubt Valve's idea of an ARG is leaking the entire list of products in development. Especially considering Valve is the company that withholds information on Half-Life, their original blockbuster franchise. What sort of logic do you see in a company that won't speak of that game leaking their entire list of projects?

I'm sorry, but that's a very lousy conspiracy theory - you're seeing alternate reality games and messages to fans when it's nothing of the sort. This isn't a game to them, it's a business. And this is probably hurting them.
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i am hypothesizing. valve has done things like this before. they have pulled seemingly "bone head" moves that end up leaking some of the toppest of secret information or projects theyre working on.

yet they are leaders of PC Gaming? lol.....cmon man...youre being native, or naive, or w/e the ****ing word is.

stop using the HL2 leak as support. it is not the same situation on multiple levels.

you dont even seem to understand that the list that was leaked could have been fabricated so that when the problems with JIRA arouse, they knew what was going to be leaked and what wasnt, and in turn, made information available. then disguised it as a **** up, when in reality, it was a premeditated response to a problem with JIRA, and valve found a way to spin it.

every single project could have been codenamed in order to protect information before their JIRA went public. every. single. one. but they werent.

and youre ignoring the fact that alot of whats on that list, are just unconfirmed projects that we have known about for a while, that valve simply hasnt confirmed, so it is not as though we are learning anything new, more so that we are just getting confirmation that valve isnt snowballing everyone.

saves alot of trouble on valves end if they "accidentially'd" their project listing and sub sequentially confirmed all the rumours that have been floating for years.

valve doesnt have to do shit but watch the fireworks.

you need to start thinking with portals.
 
trunk_slamchest said:
i am hypothesizing. valve has done things like this before. they have pulled seemingly "bone head" moves that end up leaking some of the toppest of secret information or projects theyre working on.

yet they are leaders of PC Gaming? lol.....cmon man...youre being native, or naive, or w/e the ****ing word is.

stop using the HL2 leak as support. it is not the same situation on multiple levels.

you dont even seem to understand that the list that was leaked could have been fabricated so that when the problems with JIRA arouse, they knew what was going to be leaked and what wasnt, and in turn, made information available.

every single project could have been codenamed in order to protect information. every. single. one. but they werent.

and youre ignoring the fact that alot of whats on that list, are just unconfirmed projects that we have known about for a while, that valve simply hasnt confirmed.

saves alot of trouble on valves end if they "accidentially'd" their project listing and sub sequentially confirmed all the rumours that have been floating for years.

you need to start thinking with portals.
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Okay, that makes no sense, but suit yourself. I hope, for everyone's sake, you're right, but I still sincerely doubt so. But we're getting nowhere anyway, so, you know, my qualms with this situation have been made, I won't bother arguing that the "ARG" where we break into Valve's private accounts is completely illogical (not to mention immoral), nor that the "hints" of Episode Three with the concept art leaks were deleted quickly afterwards, as were the accidental Portal 2 "Ep3" codes, proving that we weren't meant to see them. Nor will I discuss the obvious logic that, if Valve wanted to announce something, they'd do it directly, which would benefit them much more as a company, instead of letting people look into their private information. But, you know, I won't argue anymore.

Oh, and as for this happening the week after E3, well, these folders aren't that fresh. It just so happened someone found out about them now.

Also, Lost happened entirely in the mind of the dog and Jack was Jesus Christ. You just didn't see the obvious hints because of naiveté.
 
you just dont quite understand the psycho dynamics behind it.

just because valve appears to go "oh shit" and quickly delete the information leaked doesnt mean that is whats happening internally. i have done it on the trading websites i run. it is alot of fun from a developers stand point to watch people find information you are leading them to. it makes you feel like the joker from batman.

valve was a no show at E3.

yet the entire internet is ablaze with HL3 news.
 
Look, I respect your opinion. And I respectfully avoid discussing it further. Like I said, hope you're right. Otherwise, ValveTime is screwing with Valve and that's not good.
 
I am of the opinion that it was an unintentional leak personally. If I was going to leak something "accidentally on purpose" I'd not give someone access to such a deep management system. I'd do memos or internal emails or the like. This penetrates too far to be something a company would just give up intentionally.

That said, it is a thing that happened and we are going to report on these kinds of events. We vetted our information and sources and I trust our team when they say something is genuine. They do a lot of work and I think that it shows. Ultimately this information was already in the wild, all we did was confirm the integrity of the story and run it. We are in the end a Valve fan site. If we had concerns that this would somehow hurt them, we'd have treated it differently.
 
Mythos said:
Look, I respect your opinion. And I respectfully avoid discussing it further. Like I said, hope you're right. Otherwise, ValveTime is screwing with Valve and that's not good.
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aye, i understand. i always try to think outside the box regardless of how outlandish it seems.

based off of how much information has been leaked on valvetime since i started frequenting on here, i think if valve time was doing more harm than good, valve would have shut down their operations. i dont think smash would hold a position on SPUF and on Valvetime if that was the case either. thats all.
 
JossiRossi said:
I am of the opinion that it was an unintentional leak personally. If I was going to leak something "accidentally on purpose" I'd not give someone access to such a deep management system. I'd do memos or internal emails or the like. This penetrates too far to be something a company would just give up intentionally.

That said, it is a thing that happened and we are going to report on these kinds of events. We vetted our information and sources and I trust our team when they say something is genuine. They do a lot of work and I think that it shows. Ultimately this information was already in the wild, all we did was confirm the integrity of the story and run it. We are in the end a Valve fan site. If we had concerns that this would somehow hurt them, we'd have treated it differently.
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I really appreciate the honest response and taking the time to reply to these concerns, and, of course, deciding which content the site runs with is none of my business, but I still believe it penetrates, to use your term, a little too far. It's not my fight and it doesn't affect me in the slightest, naturally, but it does make me uncomfortable. And I feel it's fair to let you know that there's been some backlash on Twitter over this already, so it's a controversial move that will also affect the site's own reputation, even if only a little (I only know of who I follow, not the big picture).

Personally, as a fan, I only worry it might negatively affect Valve like the beta theft did so long ago, which is why I keep putting that up as an example. Like I've said before, if it is too much for Valve to deal with, I'm sure they'll take action, I just wanted to voice my personal concerns and, again, I appreciate you taking the time to address them.
trunk_slamchest said:
aye, i understand. i always try to think outside the box regardless of how outlandish it seems.

based off of how much information has been leaked on valvetime since i started frequenting on here, i think if valve time was doing more harm than good, valve would have shut down their operations. i dont think smash would hold a position on SPUF and on Valvetime if that was the case either. thats all.
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Oh, sorry, I wasn't particularly clear about that last part. I didn't mean that previous leaks were very harmful to the company, just that it's been escalating and this one, in particular, might be. It's gotten to a point that I fear what the next leak might do to Valve's plans. But you're right, if it's too much, Valve will take action and establish a boundary.
 
Mythos said:
So your justification for leaks is "Valve made it happen"? Are you forgetting how Gabe Newell reacted when the Half-Life 2 beta was stolen? He wasn't particularly wink-wink about it.

I'm not saying it's the same thing, but Valve is a company. Their projects need to be kept secret, so I doubt Valve's idea of an ARG is leaking the entire list of products in development. Especially considering Valve is the company that withholds information on Half-Life, their original blockbuster franchise. What sort of logic do you see in a company that won't speak of that game leaking their entire list of projects?

I'm sorry, but that's a very lousy conspiracy theory - you're seeing alternate reality games and messages to fans when it's nothing of the sort. This isn't a game to them, it's a business. And this is probably hurting them.
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You are really exaggerating the issue. This is no way on par to Half Life 2 beta being stolen. It wasn't a fan stumbled onto something. That was someone hacked into Valve and stole shit. This is nothing like that. The situations are not in any way comparable.

Also this is not going to hurt Valve in any possible way. You are probably taking this more seriously than anyone at Valve. They probably had a small talk saying they needed to be a little more careful. No damage was done. No real information was leaked. No worry.

This is not going to hurt Valve in any possible way.
 
Fatikis said:
You are really exaggerating the issue. This is no way on par to Half Life 2 beta being stolen. It wasn't a fan stumbled onto something. That was someone hacked into Valve and stole shit. This is nothing like that. The situations are not in any way comparable.

Also this is not going to hurt Valve in any possible way. You are probably taking this more seriously than anyone at Valve. They probably had a small talk saying they needed to be a little more careful. No damage was done. No real information was leaked. No worry.

This is not going to hurt Valve in any possible way.
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Fair enough. I'm not of Valve, so I don't know how they'll react, and I just wanted to voice my personal concerns, nor spur a debate and much less troll anyone. I've spoken my mind and I've gotten replies, and that's all there is to it.
I do hope you're right regarding the effect on Valve - and of course it wasn't as unabashed as the theft of the beta. I won't claim to fully understand how the data was obtained and I recognize that as a flaw in my reasoning, it just upset me that it was clearly internal organization of the company, and therefore not for the public eye. In turn, that made me worry where exactly does ValveTime draw the line, and whether they'd actively report on further, worse breaches of privacy in the future.

I hope I'm exaggerating, I really do. And I apologize if I side-tracked the discussion for my own concerns, but I really felt it should be mentioned. Even more because it sparked a small debate on Twitter by itself, so I'm not just an individual case, it's a concern of, at the very least, a minority of people.
 
Mythos said:
I really appreciate the honest response and taking the time to reply to these concerns, and, of course, deciding which content the site runs with is none of my business, but I still believe it penetrates, to use your term, a little too far. It's not my fight and it doesn't affect me in the slightest, naturally, but it does make me uncomfortable. And I feel it's fair to let you know that there's been some backlash on Twitter over this already, so it's a controversial move that will also affect the site's own reputation, even if only a little (I only know of who I follow, not the big picture).
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We try to be open and honest, and I'm never going to get mad at someone for having an opinion and trying to express it thoughtfully. I agree with Fatikis that I don't think this will be damaging and that the Beta leak was an entirely different kind of beast.

I tried looking up people talking about the reporting negatively on twitter but only found a couple people treating it that way. It doesn't appear to be causing much of a negative stir. Maybe you are seeing something I'm not though.
 
JossiRossi said:
We try to be open and honest, and I'm never going to get mad at someone for having an opinion and trying to express it thoughtfully. I agree with Fatikis that I don't think this will be damaging and that the Beta leak was an entirely different kind of beast.

I tried looking up people talking about the reporting negatively on twitter but only found a couple people treating it that way. It doesn't appear to be causing much of a negative stir. Maybe you are seeing something I'm not though.
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And I do appreciate the open arms at all times, even when someone disagrees with the content. Without meaning to sound sycophantic, it's the mark of a good administrator.

I don't know, maybe it was just my perception from the amount of tweets in a short time. LambdaGeneration's Twitter feed was chock-full of examples and a few people I know agreed that it was a bit abusive, but, like I said, it might as well have been a minority for all I know.
 
LambdaGeneration would have done the exact same thing that Valvetime did. They are trying to take a moral high ground only now because they were not the first.

It is really pretty sick and poor fan service what they are trying to do.
 
JUL3 said:
I can't believe "Gay Ben" is an inside joke with VALVe. I've always felt kinda bad (and kinda good too) about making that joke.
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Something tells me a man married with children, who is also used to being semi-famous on the internet, isn't going to be offended by a gay joke.
 
Fatikis said:
LambdaGeneration would have done the exact same thing that Valvetime did. They are trying to take a moral high ground only now because they were not the first.

It is really pretty sick and poor fan service what they are trying to do.
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Most likely so, I'm not arguing that. But the reactions to the news, i.e. the replies to LambdaGen asking whether it should be done, weren't particularly positive. Now, if you guys are having turf wars, it's not really my business, but the fact is, some people didn't seem to like it too much. But hey, I just wanted to personally speak my mind and I have.

Oh, and trunk_slamchest? Marc Laidlaw was not amused, so I seriously doubt it's a Valve thing.

EDIT: Okay, Marc Laidlaw apparently laughed at the list, so you are all correct, it's probably not a big deal. And, considering that, I apologize for wasting your time and for barging in like I did - I already felt like a bit of an asshole in the first place, now even more. I didn't mean to cause trouble, though, I genuinely feel concerned that there might be a time where a line is crossed just because everyone's so desperate for news. But I'm sure you'll know when to stop.
 
How did I know Mythos was going to play a Marc Laidlaw Tweet card eventually?

Little did he know, it would be his own undoing! Hahahah!
 
Mythos said:
EDIT: Okay, Marc Laidlaw apparently laughed at the list, so you are all correct, it's probably not a big deal. And, considering that, I apologize for wasting your time and for barging in like I did - I already felt like a bit of an asshole in the first place, now even more. I didn't mean to cause trouble, though, I genuinely feel concerned that there might be a time where a line is crossed just because everyone's so desperate for news. But I'm sure you'll know when to stop.
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I was just going to say that. It isn't a huge deal :p
We all have our moral opinions you were doing what you thought was right. Nothing wrong with that. Honestly, it is probably better to err on the side of caution.

I don't think anyone from this website would have posted something they felt would harm Valve.
 
Mythos said:
I apologize for wasting your time and for barging in like I did - I already felt like a bit of an asshole in the first place, now even more. I didn't mean to cause trouble, though, I genuinely feel concerned that there might be a time where a line is crossed just because everyone's so desperate for news. But I'm sure you'll know when to stop.
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No worries, we cool.
 
Mythos - Many of the things you're saying I agree with. You're certainly not going to be muzzled for what we disagree on. I'd echo some of what James has already said in terms of the levels we go to in order to corroborate what we publish here. We were very thorough after the initial issue was highlighted on reddit the day prior. We have published that information we found in the wild in a coherent & factual manner while making efforts to limit some of the more sensitive material (some people may not realise this but the full group list has been carefully edited).

Am I happy with these problems Valve have found themselves in? Absolutely not. Security is hugely important in all companies, Valve I'm sure have several issues each year which come to no one's attention or cause any harm. I don't like the fact people are consistently checking Valve's windows & doors are locked either.

Sometimes I get questions why we black-slap Valve so much by posting their positive press releases which aren't major news, such as the $10 million paid out for TF2. We objectively post what we think is news. I think we're fair on both sides of the coin, positive or negative, it does seem that bad news travels faster, further and quicker though. Although we are a fansite, it doesn't mean we should exclusively stick with the good stuff, despite how wonderful Valve are. Believe me when I say this, otherwise I wouldn't be involved in this site. I want this kind of thing to stop happening.
 
It's just the annual barrel-scraping and straw-clutching that goes on when people try to go through Valve's trash for snippets of HL3 news and any uneaten chicken nuggets. Nothing to see here.
 
You're absolutely right. We need somebody to infiltrate the organization Snowden style.
 
When I worked at a game developer we had a similar system, and I feel quite confident that things like "yo dawg" are not code names for anything, but a repository for yo dawg image macros. We had several things like this, it was just a way of sharing inside jokes or things we found funny with the whole company. They would also be forgotten about and left dormant for many months before we remembered to get rid of it. It would indeed be hilarious if we were on the inside and saw people mistaking a several year old meme database we made for laughs a long time ago for a hidden project code name.

Also, this part of your post made me laugh Glenn.

Hectic Glenn said:
We objectively post what we think is news.
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Objectivity does not work that way.
 
Krynn72 You're free to post what you like Krynn, as long as it doesn't upset me. In which case you're free to not post ever again.
 
Thank you Hectic Glenn, you are the greatest or not.
 
Glenn didn't mean the process of picking what to post was objective, but the actual way they post the news that they do deem news-worthy is objective.
 
Mythos said:
Guys... don't you feel like you're crossing a line here?

I mean, this is a big breach of Valve's privacy. You guys helped GabeN track down the guy who stole and leaked the HL2 beta ten years ago, now you're letting everyone know what Valve's been doing. Admittedly, there's not much here we didn't know about, but this is their internal database. I realize you're just reporting on it, but it's bound to be illegal somehow - and even if it's not, it's immoral, at least in my book.
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Dude,noone downloaded any game files,and noone revealed anything mind-bogging.
Plus,Valve themselves are guilty of making a mistake again after 2003 to not have greater control of internal documents (mailing lists and such).

But again,not immoral,noone stole anything,we don't have the actual mails from the mailing lists,just their titles.
 
Krynn72 said:
When I worked at a game developer we had a similar system, and I feel quite confident that things like "yo dawg" are not code names for anything, but a repository for yo dawg image macros. We had several things like this, it was just a way of sharing inside jokes or things we found funny with the whole company. They would also be forgotten about and left dormant for many months before we remembered to get rid of it. It would indeed be hilarious if we were on the inside and saw people mistaking a several year old meme database we made for laughs a long time ago for a hidden project code name.

Also, this part of your post made me laugh Glenn.


Objectivity does not work that way.
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the admin CP for one of my TF2 websites is "nohatsforgaben"
 
Mythos said:
Guys... don't you feel like you're crossing a line here?


I mean, this is a big breach of Valve's privacy. You guys ... just don't feel like it's right.
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I feel the same :( However, I'm still reading it and trying to find juicy clues.
 
The project called "Gay Ben" is a joke. I think it comes from
video at 1:21 . Old gabe speaks the gaben like that in almost every valve game.
 
Wait this is the first time some people are hearing about the Gay Ben joke? Wow...
 
Doofcake said:
Well, we all knew that Half-Life 3 and Source 2 have been in development for quite a while, but Left 4 Dead 3 is quite a surprise. I remember some news about L4D3 a while back but thought it was... I don't know what I thought. Can't wait to see what Valve has actually been making, other than just seeing the names of the projects.
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I heard L4D 3 won't be till 2016 as well as Hl3 if so...well that just sucks ass
 
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