3rd person Broken?

[halkun]

With all the Half life 2 Orange Box whatnot I decided to buy HL2 and give it a run. Now I'm not a big fan of shooters, but the game is so cool I decided to be forgiving and I'm having a blast.

I've only had the game for about two days and decided to turn on the console to play with some of the behind the scenes stuff. It would seem the the 3rd person camera is broken. Now, I understand that they most likely left it out because it was buggy and not workable, but it's been a few years now and the function doesn't seem to work still. It looks to be half-there, but for some reason Gordon isn't being rendered and makes gameplay a little difficult. I figured with the source code SDK released and all someone has fixed this. Is there a mod I can download or a patched version that I use?

Other than that, it's a pretty fun game.

 

[giant384]

you arent meant to play in third person in the game unless it was coded to be used in third person. the third person is really only for the devs to use to check height.

hehe speaking of height, anyone remember the stubby midget from css when the new skins came out?

 

[halkun]

Ok... so when was it coded to be used in 3rd person? I don't mind about the clipping issues, but I would at least like to see Gordon during the cut scenes when he's "talking" with characters. The Zero Punctuation review said he was mute, so I'm guessing that's a handy plot device to keep the writing in front of the player I guess. It's kind of a cop-out though.

So there isn't any mods to make the 3rd person a little more enjoyable? I can't be the only one who has thought this. Something like MGS where you look though the sight when you need to aim and fire. After I'm done playing the HL2 game proper, I might just download the source code SDK and take a look to see how it's put together. I'm working on my own personal project with Torque right now, the source code for that engine isn't so bad once you take the time to lay it out. I didn't use HL2's engine because Valve's EULA seemed a little draconian for me. GarageGames is a little more permissive with what you can do with the source in a commercial product.

Half life looks to be a little more complex than Torque though. I haven't downloaded the source code for HL2 yet. (It's still in my "tools" section.) It looks like 3rd person is almost there, so probably a few weeks of hacking will make it look good. I might even release a mod if I can fix all the bugs.

I'll poke around with it when I'm done with the game proper.

 

[Azner]

Ok... so when was it coded to be used in 3rd person? I don't mind about the clipping issues, but I would at least like to see Gordon during the cut scenes when he's "talking" with characters. The Zero Punctuation review said he was mute, so I'm guessing that's a handy plot device to keep the writing in front of the player I guess. It's kind of a cop-out though.

Oh dear...

*takes cover from on coming deabte, bashings and flaming*

 

[halkun]

Oh dear...

*takes cover from on coming deabte, bashings and flaming*

What, did I accidentally trip up on some kind of anti-3rd person faction or something?

I grew up on Japanese games, so I kind of see first person as a gigantic cop-out by the game's director. My secret theory is that FPS games exist because the visual director has no experience with theatrical exposition when telling a story. That's kind of the painful part when it comes to watching the HL2 cut scenes. It's really not that hard to drop a camera. It's not like the lighting hasn't been done.

 

[Planetary]

The games are all about you seeing things through Gordon's eyes. That's why cutscenes are completely joined into gameplays so that they shouldn't be called cutscenes at all. My recommendation for you is to either play Half-life 1, which has 3rd person, or get a mod, I think SMOD has a 3rd person model for Gordon. (And what's a "visual director?". They're games, not films.)

 

[Pesmerga]

How is it a "cop out" if it's still telling a great story?

 

[halkun]

I think SMOD has a 3rd person model for Gordon. (And what's a "visual director?". They're games, not films.)

A "Visual Director" is the person responsible with how the game looks within the four corners of the screen. He's closely related to the Art Director, which is responsible for the game assets. He puts the art/lighting/camera together into a vision to convey the story to the game director's directives. It's kind of the reason why I see it as a cop-out. Gluing a camera Gorden's forehead doesn't really immerse me. Actually it makes his character kind of vapid. You learn about everyone else's feelings except for his, and he is supposedly the main character. Things like why he's mute are not even there. (Unless I'm missing something from HL1) It's like a whole other side of the story is missing.

What's the matter with the model that comes with HL2?

 

[Orisit]

What's the matter with the model that comes with HL2?

There isn't one.

The game was never designed to be played in 3rd person and, as such, there is no Gordon model as it was never required. If you really want to play in third person, you will need to find some sort of fan model.

 

[Tagaziel]

I grew up on Japanese games, so I kind of see first person as a gigantic cop-out by the game's director.

Then please review your opinions.

My secret theory is that FPS games exist because the visual director has no experience with theatrical exposition when telling a story.

NO. Please understand the subject you are posting on BEFORE posting.

That's kind of the painful part when it comes to watching the HL2 cut scenes. It's really not that hard to drop a camera. It's not like the lighting hasn't been done.

Please, do read interviews with the HL2 developers before waltzing into a Half-Life forum and claiming they suck at game making.

HL follows an estabilished concept - the player IS Gordon and the entire game is played from his perspective with no cut scenes when you have little to no control over the character.

 

[Chabo]

Now, I'm a little biased against anime, just to warn you, but here goes:

In any anime I've seen, they make it OVER-explicit what every single character is feeling, through exaggerated facial expressions; there's no subtlety. Similarly, many Japanese games I've played bash you over the head with the main character's emotions, stuff like "I AM VERY ANGRY!!!"

One of the primary reasons I like the Half-Life series is that they use subtle methods whenever possible to tell the story, which is why I think some people just don't get it. The way Valve makes the game is that you're supposed to feel like you are Gordon Freeman for a while. Any emotions that you The Player feel, are emotions that Gordon Freeman is having. So, for example: (using HL2, so there are few spoilers) when Judith teleports herself and Eli away, you're supposed to feel angry at the "traitor". Alyx is angry, and Valve helps shape your emotions through the use of the other characters, but they're still your emotions.

Personally, I find a main character who talks to be far more immersion-breaking than having a character who oddly enough does not talk. It wouldn't really work if Gordon was saying "I really care for you, Alyx, don't get hurt..." at the same time that the player is making Gordon throw glass bottles at her.

If you wish to make a third-person mod, I say go for it; personally I'll stick with how Valve made it.

 

[PimpinPenguin]

This is not a Japanese RPG or whatever it's a First Person Shooter hence the reason you only see it from Gordans eyes you are supposed to be him.You will find thats the case with other first person shooter aswell.

As for dropping the camara in the cut scense i find its a terrible idea you spend the entire game looking from his eyes then during the cut scenes you have to view it the way the visual director wants you to.

Believe me it's harder to make the cut scenes were you are free to move around and view from whatever angle you want which is how they currently do it than to do it the way you want it it's just never going to happen.

 

[kupocake]

I grew up on Japanese games, so I kind of see first person as a gigantic cop-out by the game's director. My secret theory is that FPS games exist because the visual director has no experience with theatrical exposition when telling a story. That's kind of the painful part when it comes to watching the HL2 cut scenes. It's really not that hard to drop a camera. It's not like the lighting hasn't been done.

If you think about it though, you'll see that what HL2 specifically does is actually extremely difficult to pull off, and pretty damned ground breaking. The player is their own camera - and somewhat of a director - in the events that unfold. With characters moving around and exchanging dialogue, interacting with props, the easy route would be to fix that camera in a corner and force the player to adhere to the directors' rule. But they don't: instead, they've attempted to stop trying to make an interactive game uncomfortably non-interactive, and made the characters in any scene actors capable of a degree of improvisation so that they know how and when to be conscious of where a player is, and in later iterations of the game, to stand in a number of places if the player insists on occupying them. A lot, lot harder to light and stage than fixing the camera off somewhere, and a great aid to immersion. Sure, it's not perfect, but i'd take Half-Life's method of story exposition over 20 minute pre-rendered cut scenes any day.

As for Japanese RPGs, the less influence they have on anything, the better. I don't want Gordon to turn out to be a dream of a long dead civilization fighting his father. Who is now a whale.

 

[Pesmerga]

I don't want Gordon to turn out to be a dream of a long dead civilization fighting his father. Who is now a whale.

And the final Aeon.

 

[Acepilotf14]

And the final Aeon.

Who turns out to be his mom.

/okay I made that up

 

[Planetary]

If you like those Japanese RPGs, then Half-life, or anything first person really, isn't for you.

 

[Narvi]

You know, I don't like cupcakes.

They aren't large enough. They should make big cupcakes. So I'll like 'em.

Ah, Penny Arcade, your wisdom makes sense.

 

[giant384]

You know, I don't like cupcakes.

They aren't large enough. They should make big cupcakes. So I'll like 'em.

Ah, Penny Arcade, your wisdom makes sense.

worst analogy ever lol

 

[stewie]

The Zero Punctuation review said he was mute

oh sweet jesus. zero punctuation also said that valve was delaying its release like a non-committal suicidal that just wont jump from the tall building its on - i hope you dont now think that valve are all suicidal, and start sending them letters or something. he also said that it was "short, sweet, full of extras - just like your mum" - yet you dont REALLY believe he was talking about your mum, do you?

GORDON IS NOT MUTE. Zero Punctuation was just being funny. you failed to get the joke. a FPS is NOT a 3rdPS because thats not how it was made. if you want a 3rdPS, go buy one. its as silly as crying that the game isn't a flying sim. its a FPS. deal with it.

 

[Crash Happy]

You don't get shown Gordon's feelings because you are Gordon and so don't need showing.

 

[giant384]

correct, in the half life series valve has meant you to be gordan freeman and not like all other games where you just play the character. valve has done this because you get emotional immersion with other characters in the game and you believe everyone is talking about YOU the PLAYER. honestly valve has done a hell of job with it in the hl2 series; in ep2 they nailed it.

 

[Azner]

Thats why if you did not like alyx, you would like Ep1.

Commentary of Ep1.