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Naturally you realise that on a more universal time-scale - geological time or wider - we're not in a perfect system at all. Our sun will die. Our planet's orbit may decay. Entropy in a closed system will eventually increase until collapse. The dinosaurs would have been killed by changing climates and atmospheres if not by a rogue meteor - things hardly interpretable as an act of God or of a perfectly functioning system.Perhaps people think too much. But consider this.Think about how delicate everything is. It took the precision of that of a watch maker, (but far,far greater) for the cosmos to fall into place, for the Earth to be just right in it's position of the Solar System, the Earth's axis and just the right balance of gases to support life(too little hydrogen, we will suffocate, too little methane, the atmosphere's greenhouse gases would be too much, thus scorching everything) I'm not one of blind faith either.(Take Hitler for example). Such precise calculations in just the right amount of everything in the universe. Lest there be catastrophic and cataclysmic failure beyond our imagination. This is evidence enough for me to believe in intelligent design.
I'm definitely not saying that I think that we are the only ones to exist in the universe, if that's what your saying Jintor. I absolutely believe alien life exists too. One would be arrogant to suggest that a race as pitiful as humans are the only to exist throughout the entire, infinite universe. Humans, pitiful beings who crawl around in their tanks of scrap iron, compared to the other infinite possibilities out there, humans are nothing, Ha.Lies.
You're like a puddle in a hole in the ground - thinking the hole was built exactly for you.
Probability means that life has to arise naturally somewhere. Why not here?
True, even organized objects in the cosmos fail, but still, the mass complexity of everything.Hell it's so complex, how do we know whether or not if said failing stars and galaxies is all part of a natural process, that's designed to fail? I mean, with our current space travel technology, we can barely put men on Mars right now. Who are we to make such claims? If astronomers and physicists are so smart, why can't they develop the basic principles of sub-space warp travel yet. HMMMMM?!Naturally you realise that on a more universal time-scale - geological time or wider - we're not in a perfect system at all. Our sun will die. Our planet's orbit may decay. Entropy in a closed system will eventually increase until collapse. The dinosaurs would have been killed by changing climates and atmospheres if not by a rogue meteor - things hardly interpretable as an act of God or of a perfectly functioning system.
If, according to the laws of probability, one in a million planets evolved life, that life would still be there, regardless of any creator or designer - and its existence would be nominal proof of its possibility.
Again, the fact that we exist itself shows us little more than that we exist (SUPPOSEDLY etc). Making further assumptions as to how we came to exist, merely based on the fact that we're here, is very unsound.
Plus, you end up with the infinite creator loop which nobody can really get around - if SOMETHING created us, then what created that SOMETHING? And what created that? And what created that?
Nature, meanwhile, demonstrates evidence of self-forming complexes (in self-folding proteins and in crystals which grow perfect facets every time with no DNA) much as massive clouds of dust and dirt appear to tend towards planet formation when combined with suitable circumstances/gravity wells/whatever.
I guess actually this one IS somewhat of a pointless argument if everyone agrees that the fact of a creator would not actually imply any obligation on humanity's part to change their moral or philosophical behaviour. If you think there's a creator and that it has no real relation to anything we experience whatsoever then there's perhaps no real problem here (I use the word in its broadest possible sense, as a question to be solved).
I'm wrong, your wrong, we all are wrong, and by insisting that we all are wrong, makes us all right, so therefore, it is only you who are wrong for assuming if we all couldn't possibly be right, then how could you be right.WHY do you continue to decay around this same argument, what are the people who continue this argument hope to achieve by it. The origins of the universe and everything for that matter, is just too complex a subject for the human mind to comprehend. No one in this discussion is correct, we are one grain of salt within a spectrum of endless mystery that we haven't even begun to understand.
NOTHING is certain, scientists on this matter have to predict aspects of the universe, a prediction is not certain, therefore your theories are not certain no matter how much you think they are and how much evidence you can supply. EXACTLY the same principle goes for the people who believe in God and inteligent design even the evidence there lacks.
We know NOTHING about our universe and until we can develop the technology to go out into the unknown, we will be stuck with the predictions of whats out there. You guys speak of logic and inteligence in your opinions, but you are all as stupid as each other to be even having this argument, because time and time again, it will acomplish nothing at the end of day.
Stop trying to explain things you none of you have a sodding clue about, and just except the reality we live in at present without having to question its origins until we can get the proper means of exploring our universe.
That doesn't make any sense.But it's a FACT that that the human race is doomed to failure, and we'll never develop advanced technology to explore the unknown. We'll always be scratching around in our little scrap iron tanks till we all die of nuclear fallout, pooping our diapers like the infantile race we are, fighting like little two year olds over the dumbest things. Like this thread.:rolling:
Well duh, it's not supposed too. You see, I'm so tired of philosophizing right now, and trying to explain to everyone about my view on everything is making my head hurt and causing me to hallucinate and shit. I've spoken my peace, so I'm through with this post.Thank you everyone for being so polite to me, even if you are faking it, and you all probably are.That doesn't make any sense.
I'm definitely not saying that I think that we are the only ones to exist in the universe, if that's what your saying Jintor. I absolutely believe alien life exists too. One would be arrogant to suggest that a race as pitiful as humans are the only to exist throughout the entire, infinite universe. Humans, pitiful beings who crawl around in their tanks of scrap iron, compared to the other infinite possibilities out there, humans are nothing, Ha.
Yes and no. First, it was stated in the Bible that humans were created in God's image.That is true. However, because of original sin committed by Adam and Eve, humans are no longer perfect beings as God can no longer look upon sin, and therefore they are pathetic creatures. Yes, I believe in Jesus. I can't hide it anymore. There, I said it, and if anyone flames me for this, so help me god I'll strangle them through the monitor and rip their heads off with a spoon.:angel: If I could anyways. (P.S. anyone who takes offense to this is guilty)I dont think god would appreciate you calling humans pathetic beings. After all, he created man in his image. So either god is an all powerful deity with the occasional urinary track infection, or the Universe continues to do what its done for billions of years.
I will agree with you that it is hard to imagine each circumstance that needed to be perfect in order for human beings to come into existence. However, don't denounce the big bang theory purely on the unfathomable chance of existence.
No it's not.Yes and no. First, it was stated in the Bible that humans were created in God's image.That is true.
Yes and no. First, it was stated in the Bible that humans were created in God's image.That is true. However, because of original sin committed by Adam and Eve, humans are no longer perfect beings as God can no longer look upon sin, and therefore they are pathetic creatures.
I don't believe in anyone else's theory so far. Oh well, at least they are polite enough not to say anything rude, thank you for that much. I'll try to respect your viewpoints too, because I'm good like that. (turns green and barfs over all the agnostic views.) Sorry fellas, I can't stand this BS no more. Moderators should lock this thread immediately. Dude,I know why some said this was bad news now, this thread is worse than alcohol poisoning. And yes, others with opposite views are probably thinking the same thing.
You call this intelligent? humans rebelling against God is as ludicrous to me as walking off the edge of the roof and blaming gravity for your broken leg. Ah well, shit like this always happens when heated topics like religion comes up. Just like politics. The two main reasons people find to hate one another. I'll take CptStern's advice and not come to these anymore.I believe it to be the duty of human beings to overthrow the tyranny of God.
God fears a united mankind, you can deduce that from the Bible.
Humans rebelling against god is nowhere near as ludicrous as the Bible being taken as fact. There, I said it.You call this intelligent? humans rebelling against God is as ludicrous to me as walking of the edge of the roof and blaming gravity for your broken leg. Ah well, shit like this always happens when heated topics like this come up. Just like politics. The two main reasons people find to hate one another.
You call this intelligent? humans rebelling against God is as ludicrous to me as walking off the edge of the roof and blaming gravity for your broken leg. Ah well, shit like this always happens when heated topics like this come up. Just like politics. The two main reasons people find to hate one another. I'll take CptStern's advice and not come to these anymore.![]()
(Saturos turns cheek to be slapped by CptStern) There, I'm leaving now with my damaged ego and dignity still partially intact. I know when I'm wrong(my behavior, not beliefs, don't let this get to your heads, I still don't agree with any of you) and I'm enough of a sport to admit to it.However, I just can't help but to feel I'm the minority here.:hmph:people hate each other because of religion? that's not very religion-y of them
ho hum, religion would actually be so much better if people practiced their religion like they're supposed to
turn the other cheek so I can slap you
Most translations are just that. That's why they're so many Christian cells like Baptists, Methodists etc. A religion is nothing more than an organized group of worshipers.
(Saturos turns cheek to be slapped by CptStern)
There, I'm leaving now with my damaged ego and dignity still partially intact. I know when I'm wrong and I'm enough of a sport to admit to it.However, I just can't help but to feel I'm the minority here.:hmph:
BTW: There are hate inspired religions out there. Usually twisted versions of the original doctrine though. Take Muslim extremists and white supremacists for example.
Because mine is a personal relationship. I don't care what those splinter groups say.so why do you buy into it?
1st quote=I mean my behavior from earlier, not my beliefs, don't get too big headed over this.doh it's no fun if you're not going to put up a fuss before getting your just desserts ....I wonder if that's how the lions felt in rome circa 50AD
ya you're the monrity here ..if there's more people who are religios they dont let on for fear of being rediculed/wtf pwed with logic
you're entitled to believe whatever you want, just dont be surprised if people call you up on that belief system
ya but they dont count cuz they slap on religion to seemingly justify whatever the hell they want
"I killed 75 people today, but god says it was good that I killed those people, so therefore killing people must be good, praise the lord, hallelujah"
1st quote=I mean my behavior from earlier, not my beliefs, don't get too big headed over this.
*sigh*...no, that has nothing to do with it. Be nice. I promised I would from now on. I expect the same in return.:angry:sounds homersexual ...there I said it
*sigh*...no, that has nothing to do with it. Be nice. I promised I would from now on. I expect the same in return.:angry:
Whatever. It's just that true emotions are hard to convey over the internet,if CptStern really was trying to cheer things up a bit, then that's cool. Internet or not, even I treat complete strangers with respect if they behave well.Likewise, I don't mind for them calling on me if they feel I get out of line.I don't like being enemies with anyone.It's easy for some to badmouth others over the internet for no reason, because they have the benefit of hiding behind a screen.Spineless bastards.They dont have to be if they dont want to lol, welcome to the internet haha.
I agree, It's just that I'm too lazy to do the research and post that coherent information.:cheese: I have my ways, which some folks have learned the hard way to respect me. But you guys have been decent enough so far. Anyways, I'll catch up later fellas, "be safe, be well, be aware."-Dr. Breen.man no offense but you're going to be eaten alive on the internets ..respect on the internets? that's unpossible
religion as a topic will always land you in hot water as people have individual beliefs and are as unmoveable as proverbial rocks...that said there's some aspects of religion that non religious people cant help but laugh at ..some traditions are just plain ole funny and then there's the matter of the religious movement trying to win respect in academic circles by doing the exact opposite and attacking their views rather than positing any sort of coherent academic work to gain that respect
You don't think science and creationism could coexist peacefully?there's no amount of research that could convince anyone of the existence of god ..it's a faith system after all, not rooted in reality ...once they try to root it in reality, reality itself comes crashing in because then they have to adhere to reality's rules which the bible has a hard time doing without ommiting huge sections piecemeal