Suck my balls you stupid creationists!

[Shift]

Whatever. It's just that true emotions are hard to convey over the internet,if CptStern really was trying to cheer things up a bit, then that's cool. Internet or not, even I treat complete strangers with respect if they behave well.Likewise, I don't mind for them calling on me if they feel I get out of line.I don't like being enemies with anyone.It's easy for some to badmouth others over the internet for no reason, because they have the benefit of hiding behind a screen.Spineless bastards.

It may be spineless but thats the reality of the internet, if someone wants to be cruel and arrogant beyond belief, then on here than can be. Im personally not like that and respect everyones opinions, but if you were around with the other more major theist vs. atheist topic, you will have come to realise that its not the case with other users lol.

 

[CptStern]

You don't think science and creationism could coexist peacefully?

no, one is based on incontrovertible truth and the other is mired in fantasy similiar to leprechauns and unicorn mythology

 

[Saturos]

*sigh* All this talk about God(s) and no god, and evolution, is mentally and emotionally draining to me. It isn't to anyone else?:| I wish I could find some immediate reference to back up my claims to CptStern, but I don't have time right now. BTW:Charles Darwin was a quack. His theories are totally bogus and he should be erased from the pages of history. A big waste of time to the scientific community, (not the creationists.) Piece Out.

 

[CptStern]

I'm just a bit player in religious debates ..frankly they bore me to no end

wait till the heavy weights come in

 

[Tyguy]

*sigh* All this talk about God(s) and no god, and evolution, is mentally and emotionally draining to me. It isn't to anyone else?:| I wish I could find some immediate reference to back up my claims to CptStern, but I don't have time right now. BTW:Charles Darwin was a quack. His theories are totally bogus and he should be erased from the pages of history. A big waste of time to the scientific community, (not the creationists.) Piece Out.

See, there it is. You talk about respect and cordiality, yet you make claims like this about Darwin. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but when stuff like this is spewed, don't be surprised when reasonable, able-minded forumites might throw it back in your face.

Darwin was anything but a quack. I could sit here for an hour listing the things he has done for science. I cant tell if you are willing to have a serious debate on the issue or if you are just trying to make a point and run away. If you are serious, then please attempt to back up why you think darwin is a joke, and why evolution is non-sense.

You were on the losing end of the discussion from the start so you might want to do some research on the subject if you want to be taken seriously.
Im not trying to be a dick either, you seem like a nice person...

 

[PvtRyan]

BTW:Charles Darwin was a quack. His theories are totally bogus and he should be erased from the pages of history. A big waste of time to the scientific community, (not the creationists.) Piece Out.

Thanks for the chuckle. This is why I like these kind of "debates". Can't wait for arguments behind that statement.

 

[Muffin Man]

They dont have to be if they dont want to lol, welcome to the internet haha.

:|

...But, yeah, grow thicker skin before you argue politics, religion, music, or pretty much anything else on the internet.

 

[Shift]

I dont understand, what did I do wrong.

 

[kirovman]

BTW:Charles Darwin was a quack. His theories are totally bogus and he should be erased from the pages of history. A big waste of time to the scientific community, (not the creationists.) Piece Out.

lol. Nice to see you substantiate your claims with evidence without resorting to attacks on the integrity of Darwin's character.

Please try harder next time.

 

[[Matt]]

Here's a video that sarturos and other supporters of ID may find interesting. Neil deGrasse Tyson is a modern day Carl Sagan in my opinion who in this video brilliantly refutes intelligent design in this talk...

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay...=11&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

 

[mchammer75040]

*sigh* All this talk about God(s) and no god, and evolution, is mentally and emotionally draining to me. It isn't to anyone else?:| I wish I could find some immediate reference to back up my claims to CptStern, but I don't have time right now. BTW:Charles Darwin was a quack. His theories are totally bogus and he should be erased from the pages of history. A big waste of time to the scientific community, (not the creationists.) Piece Out.

You spelled peace wrong :|.

 

[Muffin Man]

I dont understand, what did I do wrong.

Nothing, really. I just thought it was a bit awkward to put "lol" and "haha" where you did. Each phrase ended in laughter, and it just seemed a bit odd to mine eyes. I don't know.

www.iamanatheist.com

Spread the word.

 

[[Matt]]

*sigh* All this talk about God(s) and no god, and evolution, is mentally and emotionally draining to me. It isn't to anyone else?:| I wish I could find some immediate reference to back up my claims to CptStern, but I don't have time right now. BTW:Charles Darwin was a quack. His theories are totally bogus and he should be erased from the pages of history. A big waste of time to the scientific community, (not the creationists.) Piece Out.

Well at least you wear your ignorance on your sleeve for everyone else to see. All of modern day biological science is based on the fact that evolution is indeed FACT. Amongst the scientific community there simply isnt a debate as to whether we evolved from primates and beyond that the lower orders of life. Its simply understood to be true. There isnt a biologist alive today worth his salt that claims that evolution is false and those small handfull that do have a religious agenda and thus cannot claim to be scientists at all. I really cannot understand how people simply choose to ignore by far the best evidentially supported theory mankind has ever come up with unless they actually like living in ignorance. :/

Yet again here's another video which this time refutes creationism and intelligent design and offers significant proof of evolution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg

 

[Cole]

As the great words of the movie Dogma once said,
"[SIZE=-1]I think it's better to have ideas.You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier."

Science is a set of ideas. Science evolves based on new observations, math, and logic.
Religion is a set of beliefs. Stuck in the mud.
[/SIZE]

 

[Jintor]

He totally misunderstood what I was saying. D:

 

[Saturos]

You spelled peace wrong :|.

No, actually I spelled it right, because I meant to take a piece out of everyone in this Thread. Hahahaha, get it? piece? ha,ha,.Hell, nevermind. Oh yeah, you want evidence about Charles Darwin? I just don't like the guy and thats all that matters. You evolutionists can like him if your want. But riddle me this. If we evolved from monkeys and apes sic then why are there still monkeys out there? And no, not HomoErectus. I mean monkeys. There are different species of avions, but not all birds are related either. And why hasn't the crocodile evolved?

 

[Jintor]

Because we didn't evolve from them. We share a common evolutionary ancestor. They occupy a specific ecological niche where their species can propogate and survive, and so do we.

You plainly do not understand evolution.

 

[Saturos]

Because we didn't evolve from them. We share a common evolutionary ancestor. They occupy a specific ecological niche where their species can propogate and survive, and so do we.

You plainly do not understand evolution.

Perhaps not. I will study evolution more someday to see if I understand where they(The researchers with PhDs, not you people) are coming from. But right now, I have more pressing issues to tend to. Good day.

 

[Jintor]

A complicated way of saying "I abscond from this arguement with no comprehension of how utterly owned I got".

On the other hand, it's never a brilliant idea to argue religions on the internetz.

/EDIT The little snipe about the PHDs? Newsflash: 14-year-olds understand evolution better than you apparently do. I should know. I was one of them.

 

[Saturos]

A complicated way of saying "I abscond from this arguement with no comprehension of how utterly owned I got".

On the other hand, it's never a brilliant idea to argue religions on the internetz.

/EDIT The little snipe about the PHDs? Newsflash: 14-year-olds understand evolution better than you apparently do.

A shame they teach that in class. Still, It's no different than someone's parents raising them in church I suppose. Kids should grow up and find their own means of fulfillment, with the exception of discipline. That I believe. However, no government should regulate theory in the classroom. It's just THEORY! Charles Darwin ***THEORY***! I'm not impressed by anyones' knowledge of evolution for that reason. Facts yield more fruit. I didn't get owned by anyone BTW. I'm still alive aren't I? I'm just typing what's on my mind, just like everyone else here.

 

[Jintor]

Maybe we shouldn't teach them anything. That seems to be the only thing that would satisfy you.

And I thought it was the education system's duty to teach you the facts so that each individual could make up their own minds. Instead, it appears, the education system forces Evolution into your brain just like Christianity forces God! Hah, how silly of me to think that Australia's secular education system allowed free will and thought.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Oh yeah, you want evidence about Charles Darwin? I just don't like the guy and thats all that matters. You evolutionists can like him if your want.

Don't you DARE talk that way about Charles. What did he ever do to you?! You have NO right to judge him.

If you want to get to Charlie, you're gonna have to go through ME!! ;(;(;(

 

[Saturos]

Maybe we shouldn't teach them anything. That seems to be the only thing that would satisfy you.

And I thought it was the education system's duty to teach you the facts so that each individual could make up their own minds. Instead, it appears, the education system forces Evolution into your brain just like Christianity forces God! Hah, how silly of me to think that Australia's secular education system allowed free will and thought.

Yeah, I meant something to that effect, I'm not a good speaker. Present kids with what the adults already know, then let them decide. It's not good to try and shove Cristianity down anyone's throat, or any belief or standard for that matter. Kids'll grow up hating their parents and rasion and go the opposite direction.

 

[Saturos]

Don't you DARE talk that way about Charles. What did he ever do to you?! You have NO right to judge him.

If you want to get to Charlie, you're gonna have to go through ME!! ;(;(;(

I'm not judging anyone, It's my nor nobody's place to judge anyone. I just don't agree with his Theory.

 

[Mr Stabby]

A shame they teach that in class. Still, It's no different than someone's parents raising them in church I suppose. Kids should grow up and find their own means of fulfillment, with the exception of discipline. That I believe. However, no government should regulate theory in the classroom. It's just THEORY! Charles Darwin ***THEORY***! I'm not impressed by anyones' knowledge of evolution for that reason. Facts yield more fruit. I didn't get owned by anyone BTW. I'm still alive aren't I? I'm just typing what's on my mind, just like everyone else here.

Well there is evidence to support the theory of evolution.

 

[Jintor]

A shame they teach that in class. Still, It's no different than someone's parents raising them in church I suppose. Kids should grow up and find their own means of fulfillment, with the exception of discipline. That I believe. However, no government should regulate theory in the classroom. It's just THEORY! Charles Darwin ***THEORY***! I'm not impressed by anyones' knowledge of evolution for that reason. Facts yield more fruit. I didn't get owned by anyone BTW. I'm still alive aren't I? I'm just typing what's on my mind, just like everyone else here.

Extra, extra, read all about it! It turns out that technically EVERYTHING SCIENTIFIC EVER TAUGHT IS THEORY! WORLD FREAKS OUT!

Did you know that? Everything in science is a theory. Even the Laws are theories. But do you know why we accept them as facts, or as close to facts as makes no differences? Because the have ****ing MOUNTAINS of ****ing EVIDENCE that ****ing BACK THEM THE **** UP.

Jeeze. This is why I don't argue with idiots - they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. :/

 

[Saturos]

Extra, extra, read all about it! It turns out that technically EVERYTHING SCIENTIFIC EVER TAUGHT IS THEORY! WORLD FREAKS OUT!

Did you know that? Everything in science is a theory. Even the Laws are theories. But do you know why we accept them as facts, or as close to facts as makes no differences? Because the have ****ing MOUNTAINS of ****ing EVIDENCE that ****ing BACK THEM THE **** UP.

Jeeze. This is why I don't argue with idiots - they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. :/

WTF? I thought that you knew about the stages of the scientific process .hypothesis, theory, priciple, and law. (there was one step that comes before hypothesis, I forgot. I think it's idea)Anyways, without enough evidence, the theory of evolution never became a principle. If it were to become a principle with concrete scientific data, then over time, it would become a law. The Theory never had enough data to back up it claims. No name calling BTW, that doesn't impress me either, I haven't once said anything inflammatory to you.

 

[Jintor]

Haven't you? I can read between the lines.

In the American vernacular, "theory" often means "imperfect fact"--part of a hierarchy of confidence running downhill from fact to theory to hypothesis to guess. Thus the power of the creationist argument: evolution is "only" a theory and intense debate now rages about many aspects of the theory. If evolution is worse than a fact, and scientists can't even make up their minds about the theory, then what confidence can we have in it? Indeed, President Reagan echoed this argument before an evangelical group in Dallas when he said (in what I devoutly hope was campaign rhetoric): "Well, it is a theory. It is a scientific theory only, and it has in recent years been challenged in the world of science--that is, not believed in the scientific community to be as infallible as it once was."

Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

Evolutionists have been very clear about this distinction of fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred. Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory--natural selection--to explain the mechanism of evolution.

You've got to stop stating any random shit as fact and get some evidence to back you the hell up.

If you're wondering, it's from "Evolution as Fact and Theory", May 1981.

 

[Mr Stabby]

But there is evidence to back up evolution, law, principle and theory are just titles, they don't scientifically mean anything different.

 

[Saturos]

Haven't you? I can read between the lines.



You've got to stop stating any random shit as fact and get some evidence to back you the hell up.

If you're wondering, it's from "Evolution as Fact and Theory", May 1981.

Thank you. I was waiting for you to post some resource of you own. This is much more intelligible and civilized than us arguing like two year olds.:thumbs:I might take a look at that book and see what he has to say.

 

[Jintor]

But you won't, since you have much better stuff to do with your time, apparently.

I note you haven't actually posted any resources to back up any of your stuff at all, either.

And am I supposed to take that to mean that the only things that you will take into consideration must be published and documented first before you'll read it? Have you been ignoring everything besides the videos on the last 5 pages because we don't have PHDs in Biology? D:

 

[Saturos]

But you won't, since you have much better stuff to do with your time, apparently.

I note you haven't actually posted any resources to back up any of your stuff at all, either.

And am I supposed to take that to mean that the only things that you will take into consideration must be published and documented first before you'll read it? Have you been ignoring everything besides the videos on the last 5 pages because we don't have PHDs in Biology? D:

I wish I weren't so damn lazy, or I'd re-do the research and post it. Yes, I'm supposed to be busy right now, but this philosophical BS sucks me in like a "Black Hole". (no pun intended).Save the Stephen Hawking stuff for another discussion. Before I close out, I just want everyone to know that the guy who started this tread has no class or self-respect. Why didn't he start the thread with a title like, "Creationism vs. Evolution" instead of "Suck my balls stupid Creationists!":hmph: No class.

 

[Jintor]

Will do.

Read up. It's condusive to understanding.

 

[Saturos]

Will do.

Read up. It's condusive to understanding.

If I posted some publications from well-know authors about scientific data an/or evidence proving Creationism, would you read it?

 

[[Matt]]

A shame they teach that in class. Still, It's no different than someone's parents raising them in church I suppose. Kids should grow up and find their own means of fulfillment, with the exception of discipline. That I believe. However, no government should regulate theory in the classroom. It's just THEORY! Charles Darwin ***THEORY***! I'm not impressed by anyones' knowledge of evolution for that reason. Facts yield more fruit. I didn't get owned by anyone BTW. I'm still alive aren't I? I'm just typing what's on my mind, just like everyone else here.

Oh for ****s sake didnt you read my earlier post?? Im amazed by how ignorant you seem ot be about what the word theory actually means. A 'theory' isnt a guess or 'hunch' as the word seems to have evolved into in the public eye. In science the word theory is a HIGHER scientific level of understanding than the word fact. The oxford english dictionary definition of the word theory is as such, "a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles, or causes of something known or observed." A theory can only be called a theory if it is backed up by SEVERAL facts and laws. Ever heard of the theory of gravity??? Apples fall from the tree to the ground - FACT. The earth revolves around the sun - FACT. Gravity if strong enough can be enough to change the path of light - FACT. The theory of gravity more than explains how these facts along with hundreds of other facts are related to a single force.

As for the theory of evolution i will leave it to the worlds top biologists to explain...

In the American vernacular, "theory" often means "imperfect fact"--part of a hierarchy of confidence running downhill from fact to theory to hypothesis to guess. Thus the power of the creationist argument: evolution is "only" a theory and intense debate now rages about many aspects of the theory. If evolution is worse than a fact, and scientists can't even make up their minds about the theory, then what confidence can we have in it? Indeed, President Reagan echoed this argument before an evangelical group in Dallas when he said (in what I devoutly hope was campaign rhetoric): "Well, it is a theory. It is a scientific theory only, and it has in recent years been challenged in the world of science--that is, not believed in the scientific community to be as infallible as it once was."

Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

Evolutionists have been very clear about this distinction of fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred. Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory--natural selection--to explain the mechanism of evolution.

- Stephen J. Gould, American paleontologist, evolutionary biologist, and historian of science.

Since Darwin's time, massive additional evidence has accumulated supporting the fact of evolution--that all living organisms present on earth today have arisen from earlier forms in the course of earth's long history. Indeed, all of modern biology is an affirmation of this relatedness of the many species of living things and of their gradual divergence from one another over the course of time. Since the publication of The Origin of Species, the important question, scientifically speaking, about evolution has not been whether it has taken place. That is no longer an issue among the vast majority of modern biologists. Today, the central and still fascinating questions for biologists concern the mechanisms by which evolution occurs.

Helena Curtis and N. Sue Barnes, Biology 5th ed

A few words need to be said about the "theory of evolution," which most people take to mean the proposition that organisms have evolved from common ancestors. In everyday speech, "theory" often means a hypothesis or even a mere speculation. But in science, "theory" means "a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles, or causes of something known or observed." as the Oxford English Dictionary defines it. The theory of evolution is a body of interconnected statements about natural selection and the other processes that are thought to cause evolution, just as the atomic theory of chemistry and the Newtonian theory of mechanics are bodies of statements that describe causes of chemical and physical phenomena. In contrast, the statement that organisms have descended with modifications from common ancestors--the historical reality of evolution--is not a theory. It is a fact, as fully as the fact of the earth's revolution about the sun. Like the heliocentric solar system, evolution began as a hypothesis, and achieved "facthood" as the evidence in its favor became so strong that no knowledgeable and unbiased person could deny its reality. No biologist today would think of submitting a paper entitled "New evidence for evolution;" it simply has not been an issue for a century.

Douglas J. Futuyma, Evolutionary Biology, 2nd ed

Stop bieng ignorant. Dont put it off any longer. Do your research on evolution and you will indeed come to the conclusion that EVERY biologist knows already. Evolution is FACT!

 

[[Matt]]

If I posted some publications from well-know authors about scientific data an/or evidence proving Creationism, would you read it?

Already have. Some of the worst science ive ever read to the point that it just isnt science at all. If you're going to quote Michael Behe then i know you have a closed religious agenda as opposed to an open mind as all scientists should have.

 

[Saturos]

Oh for ****s sake didnt you read my earlier post?? Im amazed by how ignorant you seem ot be about what the word theory actually means. A 'theory' isnt a guess or 'hunch' as the word seems to have evolved into in the public eye. In science the word theory is a HIGHER scientific level of understanding than the word fact. The oxford english dictionary definition of the word theory is as such, "a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles, or causes of something known or observed." A theory can only be called a theory if it is backed up by SEVERAL facts and laws. Ever heard of the theory of gravity??? Apples fall from the tree to the ground - FACT. The earth revolves around the sun - FACT. Gravity if strong enough can be enough to change the path of light - FACT. The theory of gravity more than explains how these facts along with hundreds of other facts are related to a single force.

As for the theory of evolution i will leave it to the worlds top biologists to explain...


- Stephen J. Gould, American paleontologist, evolutionary biologist, and historian of science.


Helena Curtis and N. Sue Barnes, Biology 5th ed


Douglas J. Futuyma, Evolutionary Biology, 2nd ed

Stop bieng ignorant. Don't put it off any longer. Do your research on evolution and you will indeed come to the conclusion that EVERY biologist knows already. Evolution is FACT!

Oh, good day Matt.(sips tea) Yes, I've decided to look up reference material on both Evolution and Creationism. Have you even tried to study Creationism? You've got to research both before one can come to any conclusions.I've decided to do some research on evolution and compare the evidence. Let's face it, we all are human, we will never live in perfect harmony, we will ripping one another's throats outs and trying to cram our ideas down everyone else's till the end of time. All we can do is decide for ourselves. I apologize for unknowingly insulting anyone's idea's, it wasn't my intention. I just my opinion on things.

 

[[Matt]]

refer to my above post

 

[Cormeh]

Wait a minute, how can you "study" creationism? Read the bible?

That makes no sense to me.

 

[Saturos]

Wait a minute, how can you "study" creationism? Read the bible?

That makes no sense to me.

The bible does not intend to give us a means to unlock the secrets of the universe with loads of scientific data, it is a guidelight to salvation. Have you ever heard of Dark Matter or Creation energy? Not all Christian scientists are rigid in their research you know.That sounds weird, I know, but there are Christian scientists.