0.7 miles???

[Jerjerod]

I just heard that the map size limet was going to be .7 x .7 miles and this has put the Battlefield1942 mod Eve of Destruction off moveing to HL2 since they need bigger maps if their going to have jets and helis and tanks.

Nobody seems to be able to link or quote anything that conferms this so i was just wondering if anyone could conferm this?

 

[Frosty LoS]

http://forums.bf42.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36602

 

[Jerjerod]

Yeah but theres nothing there from a halflife dev to conferm that, i was hopeing it might just be a rumour.

 

[Submerge]

phhhh, 0.7 miles is large enuff for my mod.

 

[dawdler]

I beleive a mail from the devs noted it would take minutes to cross with a vehicle... Meaning its at least equal to the BF maps if not bigger. Could be wrong though, my memory is notoriously bad

 

[Punisher454]

That .7 mile figure assumes your using a scale of 1 map unit per inch. If you re-scale it can be alot bigger, you just have to keep in mind that youre rescaled the whole time you are building your world. I think thats how HL Rally works.

 

[Submerge]

ya, but then again it is alot of work rescaling. just depends on the mod makers wat they want to do.

 

[Electrico]

they will be 64x the size (in all directions, in total) of Half Life maps.

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by Electrico
they will be 64x the size (in all directions, in total) of Half Life maps.

In all directions and in total is two different things. In total, 64x larger means 4x larger flat (from the top) (4x4x4). 64x in all directions means a SHITLOAD of map space
I still think its large enough for most vehicles...

If this is a HL map:
X

This is a HL2 map:
XXXX
XXXX
XXXX
XXXX

(wont picture the 64x in all directions)

Its enough for ground vehicles at least. Those that want planes should look to a engine designed for looping and less detailed terrain.

 

[dscowboy]

Here it is:
http://collective.valve-erc.com/index.php?go=source_mod_faq#eng_02
Map size is -/+16384 inches, which gives 32768 per side, a little over half a mile. (Unless of course you scale everything)

 

[Majestic XII]

You need to scale the physics too, not just the map...think about that before you do it

 

[cyborgguineapig]

Um take a look at the official Valve discussion thread, One of the most recent questions to Gabe is somethign about map sizes compared with BF1942 and he stated its very possible. Where the hell are you guys getting 0.7 miles from? the Serious Sam engine can makwe maps kilometers and kilometers in size, I amde a map in SS that took 5 minutes to walk across. I think HL2 would have this technology or even better.

 

[Stone]

Arg, reading that link I realised something... well a question really...

Why do people judge the Engine on how good the game was?!?

I'd say, please stay with BF engine, at least for now.
Please do not go to UT engine... UT2k3 sucked.........

 

[dscowboy]

Originally posted by cyborgguineapig
Um take a look at the official Valve discussion thread, One of the most recent questions to Gabe is somethign about map sizes compared with BF1942 and he stated its very possible. Where the hell are you guys getting 0.7 miles from? the Serious Sam engine can makwe maps kilometers and kilometers in size, I amde a map in SS that took 5 minutes to walk across. I think HL2 would have this technology or even better.

Did you read the link? Here, I'll do the math for you guys, it's not that difficult.

Map dimensions are -/+16384 (this means a coordinate can be anywhere from -16384 to +16384, which is 32769 units)
A unit corresponds to an inch
32769 inches / 12 inches per foot = 2730.75 feet
2730.75 feet / 5280 feet per mile = .517 miles

Each side of the map can be .517 miles. "So where are people getting .7 miles from?" you ask. 0.7 miles is the length from one corner of the map to the other.
A^2 + B^2 = C^2
C = sqrt(A^2 + B^2)
C = sqrt(0.517^2 + 0.517^2)
C= sqrt(0.267 + 0.267)
C = sqrt(0.534)
C = 0.73 miles

Now let's analyze the "it will take minutes to cross the map in a vehicle" quote. Assume the vehicle moves at 15 mph (the buggy in the demo looks like it's going about 20, maybe 25). 15 mph = 1 mile every 4 minutes. 4 minutes * 0.7 = 2.8 minutes.

So technically the quote could be true, depending on the speed of the vehicle and assuming you cross the map from one corner to the other.

I timed the buggy video, he doesn't really drive very far at all, in terms of miles. Here are my estimates:

First he drives for 15 seconds at about 25 mph until he reaches the first ramp. (I know some of you will argue about the speed, but he is definitely going slower than it seems. Look at the grass when he looks left. At 30 mph, grass is just a green blur if you look at it sideways.) That's .1 miles. Then he drives at around an average of 20 mph for 8 seconds until he gets to the second ramp. That's about .044 miles. Finally he drives at 25 for about 25 seconds. That's another .17 miles. All together, he drives around .3 miles, and makes several turns in the process; he snakes around the map. Even if you double my speed estimates that's well within the limits.

 

[dscowboy]

Originally posted by Stone
Arg, reading that link I realised something... well a question really...

Why do people judge the Engine on how good the game was?!?

Yeah, I noticed that too, hilarious!
They do have one valid point though, which is that if a game sucks, fewer people will buy it, and thus fewer people will be able to play the mod. I don't think a lot of them realize that though.

 

[Punisher454]

I didnt bother to do the math, yes it just a bit over a half mile in both X and Y. Just barely big enough for a dragstrip

In that buggy vide you'll notice that he ends up very close at the end to where he started. Look up at the road above when the video starts and you can see the wrecked vehicles. Any youre right also about the speed of the buggy, its not going very fast.

I'd kinda like to see a stunt race track sort of like the old arcade game "Hard Drivin". That game rocked!

 

[dawdler]

So we loose flat area, so what? Yes its bad for planes. But for vehicles, we are given a MASSIVE area to drive on, beating anything any game have to offer as of yet... Its +- 16k up/down too, a size that do not exist in flight friendly Tribes style maps or BF1942, they have flat terrain. Yes you can make heights, but nothing with the detail of the HL2 engine (its two different ways of construction, with the HL2 engine you can do any kind of roads, highways that arent connected to the ground, etc). This means we have a map that can basicly be built with layer on layer on layer of independant terrains. Meaning even if the mapsizes are half the square of the BF1942 maps, we could make them appear 10 times larger, with the limit of doing it for ground vehicles

And as I said, if one want flight, then a low detail looping terrain engine is much better anyway, its nothing for HL2.

 

[chapel]

While not very literal, it does show the size difference between hl and hl2. Quite considerable difference. I personally think the map size max is a design limitation more than an engine one. You can always make it bigger, it just wont run as good or have other complications. And I can almost guarantee that there is a way to hack the lvl's bigger with out doing a map wise scale down. Don't fret untill youve seen it in action, or have played with it yourself. Dont know yet so just enjoy it untill then.

 

[GaintSura]

First let me say that dscowboy either has too much time on his hands or is extremly smart lol. Also, I dont see an answer to this anywhere, but what about maximum viewable distance? I know that in hl 4096 units was maximum before the area past that barrier would go black. In hl2 I dont see that, but it doesnt seem impossible to happen. or is it that the map limits (.7miles) the max viewable distance? and also.. what about the max viewable faces before shorting out? would be good things to know >=D

 

[dscowboy]

Originally posted by GaintSura
First let me say that dscowboy either has too much time on his hands or is extremly smart lol.

The former, mostly Seriously though, the math is easy, as you can see.

Also, I dont see an answer to this anywhere, but what about maximum viewable distance? I know that in hl 4096 units was maximum before the area past that barrier would go black. In hl2 I dont see that, but it doesnt seem impossible to happen. or is it that the map limits (.7miles) the max viewable distance? and also.. what about the max viewable faces before shorting out? would be good things to know >=D

That would be great to know. Hopefully when the SDK is released it will answer some of those questions. Or, someone could e-mail Yahn...

 

[$niper]

Originally posted by GaintSura
First let me say that dscowboy either has too much time on his hands or is extremly smart lol. Also, I dont see an answer to this anywhere, but what about maximum viewable distance? I know that in hl 4096 units was maximum before the area past that barrier would go black. In hl2 I dont see that, but it doesnt seem impossible to happen. or is it that the map limits (.7miles) the max viewable distance? and also.. what about the max viewable faces before shorting out? would be good things to know >=D

You can set the maximum viewable distance in Half-Life, it only pertains to the Z-buffer.

 

[Chellis]

Just to clear it up, you can make BF1942 maps as big as you want. there is NO limit, to say. Without lag as well. You just "stretch" the heightmap, meaning a normal bump would be a mountain, and a lake is an ocean. they only arent that big for gameplay, lag(placing objects all around would lag a server), and gameplay.

Just so you dont compare to bf

 

[medic]

i heard this too, it will take sveral min to run threw a "big" Half-Life 2 map!

 

[GaintSura]

In theory, if you could scale the player itself in Hl/ Hammer you could make a map up to 10 times the size of the map limits. just scale the map along with it. if they do this in hl2... that .7miles could be come up to 7 miles.. if it was created properly. would be nice.. but probably wont happen