1st Person Weapon Investigation

IchI

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I have been playing modifications for games for quiet a long time and in my opinion they are normally always flaws which put me off them. First of all it’s normally got something to do with the visual aspect of the game. People just always seem to miss little things that make the game feel incomplete or just plain weird. Back when I was in the Neoshock Online team I did a small investigation to show the rest of the team what we would be aiming for with 1st person weapons. Some of them realised things they have never before noticed and with some simple principles a game can look that little more complete. The subject in matter is the position of your weapons when inside a 1st person perspective view. If you stick to some simple rules you can seriously improve the playability of your modification. First of all I am going to show you a picture from Counter-Strike. No matter how much you say Counter-Strike sucks and you hate it this does not matter. It is a fact that one of the reasons why people like to play Counter-Strike is because it feels nice. When you shot at someone you actually feel like you’re doing something. This also has aspects of kick in it. But something as simple as having a set rule for your weapon positions makes the game that much more successful. Here is a picture of the mp5 from Counter-Strike:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/st4tic/Weapon_Position_CSMP5.jpg

As you can see I have draw red lines on this picture to show you what I mean. As you can see they all point to the middle. The barrel of the weapon goes from the front all the way to the back corner. Your whole weapon is pointing in the direction of your bullets and you get more of a sense of... Its quite hard to explain. But to me, it does feel right. Here are some other images of other types of weapons:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/st4tic/Weapon_Position_CSAWP.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/st4tic/Weapon_Position_CSDesertEagle.jpg

Both these weapons follow the same principles; notice how the AWP does not follow along the scope to the bottom corner. All of them use the barrel of the weapon as a point to point system.

Now I will move onto other types of weapons like grenades hand held melee weapons. Even though these are not the same structure as hand held sub machine guns, pistols or rifles they still follow the same principles. Look closely at both the hands on the knife and also the hands on the grenades:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/st4tic/Weapon_Position_CSGrenade.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/st4tic/Weapon_Position_CSKnife.jpg

As you can see they are the same. But now let’s look at very large weapons that can be held over your shoulder. In my opinion this is what everyone gets wrong. No one ever seems to be able to position a rocket launcher probrly and it always seems that your launcher is pointing in a different direction from your rocket. There obviously isn’t a rocket launcher in Counter-Strike so I decided to use Farcry. I really do like the rocket launcher in Farcry and yet again, it does feel nice to use. Here is an image of it:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/st4tic/Weapon_Position_FCRocketLauncher.jpg

As you can see yet again the whole weapon flows in one direction on the screen.

In my opinion if you add these simple principles to your modification you can make the whole game feel nice. It’s very obvious that not all games follow these principles. But in my opinion they are very good references to follow and to get the most out of your modification. The worse thing you could ever do is try to do them your self and end up with all your weapons pointing in different directions and not held correctly. I seriously wouldn’t play a game if it felt that wrong.

I hope this has helped all those modification teams out there. You might have already known this. But hopefully it has helped. Just to finish it off, here are some images of other weapons:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/st4tic/Weapon_Position_FCSniperRifle.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/st4tic/Weapon_Position_CSUSP.jpg

:thumbs:
 
I'd have used the straight line tool to be more accurate, but thats just me :)

Good info though, cheers.
 
Fenric said:
I'd have used the straight line tool to be more accurate, but thats just me :)

Good info though, cheers.

Why not make it sticky. If could help some people who just come visiting and don't look throguh the 800 topics :p
 
i use r_drawviewmodel 0 , viewing the weapon is unnecessary, besides it only distracts me, plus, takes more fps, and whit out them i have more fov in screen, so i can see better whats going on
 
woah, ichi, thats a really good observation :O. i dont really think you should have used far cry as an example though, a lot of people dont actually like the feel of it.
 
nice thread... we're not gonna sticky it for the simple fact that it'll lcutter up the forums... if you write a whole article, e-mail munneh, and we can put it on the site.
 
Very interesting...I don't mod, but I find that very interesting. Its weird how the little things in a game determine how great a game will be.
 
Good article. But wait, I've already said this didnt I ? ;)
 
the problem with those games that I see, is that the angles are too wide.
get up from your computer and act like you're holding a gun at your hip (which is what the players in those games are doing) your arms are going to be tucked in pretty close to deal with the weight of the weapon and the kickback.
Observe the angle that the gun would be and you'll see it's ALOT shallower than many of the games. (keep in mind the rocket launcher is a bit different) That's a problem that I have with HL and other games. If you actually tried firing like that you'd probably hurt yourself.
 
you got some nice models i like this one:
m45_Final.jpg
 
Ichi brings up some very good points. Get your weapon origins right !! It's really an intangible element, but if you get it right people will subconciously enjoy shooting, reloading, butt smacking whatever. CS may be unrealistic but it looks and works perfectly.

Anoter thing MAKE SURE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE HANDS. I'm playing through Painkiller right now and there are no hands holding the model. It feels wrong.
 
Interesting.

do you have any links or screens of one's that you think are really bad?
 
I would find some, they are all over the place. Give me about 10minutes. Sorry if I made some mods look bad when I return :p
 
Haha!!

Look at the last one. The reticle is behind the gun. :D
 
The top part of a FAMAS is lower in the front than it is in the back. If you ignore that, everything lines up in the second screenshot.
 

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good point, look at the third one though :thumbs:
 
nice article :thumbs: it was a good observation, I enjoyed reading that
 
OCybrManO said:
The top part of a FAMAS is lower in the front than it is in the back. If you ignore that, everything lines up in the second screenshot.

If you draw the line exactly down the barrel you will notice your aiming just bellow the crosshair. Its not much of a big deal, but it still could be fixed very easily.

Also if you notice the weapon is wayyyy to close to him. The end of the weapon should just be out of vision. Not like 1/2 the weapon.
 
stickied this cause its useful, sorry it wasn't stickied earlier IchI, but keep it on topic guys. Thanks!
 
BTW the third pic looks like a frame from an idle sequence of the weapon, there's no way it could have been made THAT badly.. or could it :(
 
I dunno. The picture could have been taken when it was reloading. I just found some random pictures. I think its actually from firearms. Not sure.
 
IchI said:
I dunno. The picture could have been taken when it was reloading. I just found some random pictures. I think its actually from firearms. Not sure.
If the third is how it looks during firing then thats terribly inacurate for sure. I don't think I've ever seen one that badly out of line. Which is why I'm sure it must be an idle sequence. Maybe I'm just in denial :)
 
Fenric said:
If the third is how it looks during firing then thats terribly inacurate for sure. I don't think I've ever seen one that badly out of line. Which is why I'm sure it must be an idle sequence. Maybe I'm just in denial :)

Its still funny though. The barrle goes past where your bullets hit. So you bullets basiclly curl. Man that would rock.
 
w0w, not sure if you guys are serious about that last pic (i hope you aren't...)

That is either the idle or running sequence, lol

I would personally shoot anyone who was that obviously bad :p
 
The point the guns point to is called the vanishing point i think, like when your looking at a long straight road and it apears to get smaller and smaller.
The last pic cant be serious O_O, it would be an imbarresment to release a mod with weapon views like that.
 
Casue FPS views are restrictive by the fact that they come through a monitor rather than a pair of eyes. Consequently doors and wide spaces often look wrong in maps. To get anything close to what CS really looks like in real life, the player would have to shut one eye and lift the gun to nipple height, interesting but impractical.

The golden rule?
It's irrelevant if it isn't actually right.
If it looks right, it's right
 
Wow...Ichi, you in nox clan (or group or whatever)...I remember seeing nox players on some server, might be BOSS Brigade server or Forbidden Donut (ol school server...I co own)...not to advertise or anything but anyone looking for a good friendly counterstrike server check out 66.36.238.107:27015 (Forbidden Donut)...we have lots of good admins.
 
Nar I just joined some random CS server. hehehe, soz :p
 
you got some nice models i like this one
It is gorgeous. On the other hand, it suffers from problems very similar to those being criticized by the thread author...
:D
Urg, I find that horrible crosshair more objectionable than anything else. Like a poster above said, the first thing I do in any shooter is find a way to hide the gun. Then I look for a nice high-contrast microdot for a crosshair.

I'm not willing to accept a screenie as evidence of a misaligned weapon unless it's of the weapon firing.
 
IchI, I totally agree with you. Having that feeling that your gun is pointing in the direction it is sposed to be firing is one of those many aesthetic feelings that keeps gamers coming back for more and more.
There must be some leeway for other important things that contribute to the feeling that "it all feels good". Movement, idle, recoil, reloading and other such animations are essential in contributing to that feeling, yet they break the alignment of the barrel with the reticule.
This is also totally true, but the whole thread was about the position of the gun when not firing I think. I don't think anyone is saying your gun should keep its barrel pointed towards the reticule while the players arms jump up and down the y axis :rolling:

and how does IchI's gun suffer from the same thing as the other gun, does someone have a ingame shot of IchI's gun which shows the misalignment? Or a pic of the gun in game at all :))
 
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