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Ridge

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Posted: April 19, 2007
1:52 pm Eastern

? 2008 WorldNetDaily.com




Kennesaw, Ga., City Hall
As the nation debates whether more guns or fewer can prevent tragedies like the Virginia Tech Massacre, a notable anniversary passed last month in a Georgia town that witnessed a dramatic plunge in crime and violence after mandating residents to own firearms.

In March 1982, 25 years ago, the small town of Kennesaw ? responding to a handgun ban in Morton Grove, Ill. ? unanimously passed an ordinance requiring each head of household to own and maintain a gun. Since then, despite dire predictions of "Wild West" showdowns and increased violence and accidents, not a single resident has been involved in a fatal shooting ? as a victim, attacker or defender.

The crime rate initially plummeted for several years after the passage of the ordinance, with the 2005 per capita crime rate actually significantly lower than it was in 1981, the year before passage of the law.

Prior to enactment of the law, Kennesaw had a population of just 5,242 but a crime rate significantly higher (4,332 per 100,000) than the national average (3,899 per 100,000). The latest statistics available ? for the year 2005 ? show the rate at 2,027 per 100,000. Meanwhile, the population has skyrocketed to 28,189.


By comparison, the population of Morton Grove, the first city in Illinois to adopt a gun ban for anyone other than police officers, has actually dropped slightly and stands at 22,202, according to 2005 statistics. More significantly, perhaps, the city's crime rate increased by 15.7 percent immediately after the gun ban, even though the overall crime rate in Cook County rose only 3 percent. Today, by comparison, the township's crime rate stands at 2,268 per 100,000.

This was not what some predicted.

In a column titled "Gun Town USA," Art Buchwald suggested Kennesaw would soon become a place where routine disagreements between neighbors would be settled in shootouts. The Washington Post mocked Kennesaw as "the brave little city ? soon to be pistol-packing capital of the world." Phil Donahue invited the mayor on his show.

Reuters, the European news service, today revisited the Kennesaw controversy following the Virginia Tech Massacre.

Police Lt. Craig Graydon said: "When the Kennesaw law was passed in 1982 there was a substantial drop in crime ? and we have maintained a really low crime rate since then. We are sure it is one of the lowest (crime) towns in the metro area." Kennesaw is just north of Atlanta.

The Reuters story went on to report: "Since the Virginia Tech shootings, some conservative U.S. talk show hosts have rejected attempts to link the massacre to the availability of guns, arguing that had students been allowed to carry weapons on campus someone might have been able to shoot the killer."

Virginia Tech, like many of the nation's schools and college campuses, is a so-called "gun-free zone," which Second Amendment supporters say invites gun violence ? especially from disturbed individuals seeking to kill as many victims as possible.

Cho Seung-Hui murdered 32 and wounded another 15 before turning his gun on himself.
 
I think it's hard to draw any conclusions based on one small town.

Besides, no democracy worth its name would make it mandatory to own a gun.
 
Besides, no democracy worth its name would make it mandatory to own a gun.

I fail see what you're saying here. If the people of a democracy decide something and then it happens, how is that not "worth its name".

It sounds to me like democracy by definition.

*Edit*

I don't agree with it either. But to say it isn't legitimate, even in a round about way, makes you look like an idiot...
 
I fail see what you're saying here. If the people of a democracy decide something and then it happens, how is that not "worth its name".

It sounds to me like democracy by definition.

*Edit*

I don't agree with it either. But to say it isn't legitimate, even in a round about way, makes you look like an idiot...
That's called oppression of majority.

If a majority decides that everyone must shave their heads, does that make it democratic? In a democracy, the rights of the individual (in this case the right not to have a gun) is just an important principle as majority rule.
 
If I get my hands on a gun, I'm going to start shooting people. That's what they're for.

That's why I stay away from them.
 
A rural town has a low crime rate, well **** me silly and call me Bush.
 
"If I get my hands on a gun, I'm going to start shooting people. That's what they're for.

That's why I stay away from them."


*sigh*
Yes, if thats what YOU want a gun for, then YOU should stay away from them. Also I dont think you should be allowed near knives, cars, or children.

But if I want to own a gun (and I do), LEAVE ME ALONE. I know how to handle them, I know my guns, and I am not about to go shoot people. Why shouldnt I be "allowed" to pratice my 2nd amendment Right? I'm here using the 1st.

But no, you cant use 1 small town to show how handing out guns reduces crime.
But Crime has been at an all time low that last couple of years. Also the "assault" Weapon ban was lifted a few years ago, but last I checked there are still used in less than 1% of crimes.

Also in states where Concealed Carry is legal, crime rates drop. It's like the scum of the earth dont like a fair fight :hmph:

"An armed society is a polite society."
 
*sigh*
Yes, if thats what YOU want a gun for, then YOU should stay away from them. Also I dont think you should be allowed near knives, cars, or children.

No man... I don't want a gun for that. I don't want a gun, don't you understand! The guns want me for that. They want you for that.

"An armed society is a polite society."

Oh yeah, like the Wild West. Everybody was very polite, this is true. Manners were high up on the list. So was the chaos.
 
Because the wild west is so perfect for comparison.
 
Go to a gun range, notice something? Everyone there is very polite. Hmmmm...I Wonder why?
 
Go to a gun range, notice something? Everyone there is very polite. Hmmmm...I Wonder why?

Because they have no reason to be rude?

From my observations, gun ranges aren't exactly places of high stress and tension generation. People go there for enjoyment for the most part.

Pew pew pew!

Missed me! <falls down on his right knee and executes a sideways tumble before rising back up on one knee and firing a series of shots> Pew pew, KABOOM! I shot a TNT keg, you're dead!
 
There is a dissapointing lack of CptStern and his sourceless facts in this thread...I hope he is okay...
 
Holy shit Krynn you're a genius.

We turn all of America into one giant gun range... PERFECT!
 
We need to ban places, for the children...
 
So this shows that gun ownership rates does not drastically effect crime rates in tiny towns?

This looks pretty suspicious btw:
Prior to enactment of the law, Kennesaw had a population of just 5,242 but a crime rate significantly higher (4,332 per 100,000) than the national average (3,899 per 100,000).
Anyone want to show whether that is really a statistically significant difference in crime rate given the small population sample?
 
No, it shows that having an armed populace contributes to a safer community with far less crime rates...
 
for the year 2005 ? show the rate at 2,027 per 100,000. Meanwhile, the population has skyrocketed to 28,189.


22,202, according to 2005 statistics. Today, by comparison, the township's crime rate stands at 2,268 per 100,000.
Nice statistics they have. Comparing today's crime rates in one town to 2005 crime rates in another. It's a very fishy article imo. Also that seems like a rather small difference anyway, 567 crimes versus 503. We're talking numbers here that could easily be due to other factors, especially since the figures given are from three years apart.
 
What do you mean different towns? Those results are both for the same town...
 
I snipped. Glad to see you're so familiar with the article you posted.

Prior to enactment of the law, Kennesaw had a population of just 5,242 but a crime rate significantly higher (4,332 per 100,000) than the national average (3,899 per 100,000). The latest statistics available ? for the year 2005 ? show the rate at 2,027 per 100,000. Meanwhile, the population has skyrocketed to 28,189.


By comparison, the population of Morton Grove, the first city in Illinois to adopt a gun ban for anyone other than police officers, has actually dropped slightly and stands at 22,202, according to 2005 statistics. More significantly, perhaps, the city's crime rate increased by 15.7 percent immediately after the gun ban, even though the overall crime rate in Cook County rose only 3 percent. Today, by comparison, the township's crime rate stands at 2,268 per 100,000.
 
Ah, well, forgive me. And how much of an article you post do you memorize?
 
I can at least recognise when it's severely snippered, I didn't even leave complete sentences :p
 
I pasted it in the original form in which the news agency displayed it. If you have a problem with their formatting, I'd take it up with them...
 
Have you lost your reading glasses or something? :rolleyes:
 
I would like to know the racial demographic of this town.
 
I would like to know detailed demographics of both towns.

^ lol racist!
 
That town is now jinxed. I bet you anything there will be a murder this/next year.
 
the City of Quebec, Canada has a population of 491,142, the surrounding boroughs have a population of 715,515 in 2007 Quebec had ZERO murders. they, like every other city, town, village, collection of igloos in canada have strict gun control laws in place ....obviously Quebec is proof that gun control works



biased sampling is biased
 
Quebec CITY had ZERO murders.

Dont forget to add the CITY part there.

No one was killed in Quebec City that year, good on you. But there were stabbings, beatings, car jackings, gun shot wounds, and hit and runs. Basically no one was able to kill anyone in Quebec CITY with success. Next time try harder

P.S.
Overall crime in America is at an all time low. Gun crime is falling.

Mexico has some of the harshest gun control laws in the world, yet, they have some of the highest gun crime.
 
Dont forget to add the CITY part there.

No one was killed in Quebec City that year, good on you. But there were stabbings, beatings, car jackings, gun shot wounds, and hit and runs. Basically no one was able to kill anyone in Quebec CITY with success. Next time try harder

and this is any different than Kennesaw, Ga? there were no "stabbings, beatings, car jackings, gun shot wounds, and hit and runs"?

P.S.
Overall crime in America is at an all time low. Gun crime is falling.

what does this have to do with anything?

Mexico has some of the harshest gun control laws in the world, yet, they have some of the highest gun crime.


you'e comparing a second world country with a first world country? you're comparing a country where lawlessness, gang warfare, civil and political upheaval is the norm with the US? ok, most people wouldnt agree that's a fair comparison but so long as it suits your agenda right? on the flipside canada has as much gun control as mexico and hey the US' murder rate is double that of canada, oh and death by firearm is more than twice the rate of that in the US ...using your logic OBVIOUSLY gun control works


oh btw ..

http://www.nydailynews.com/latino/2...us_most_illegal_guns_in_mexico_come_from.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0719/p01s01-woam.html
http://www.kcbd.com/Global/story.asp?S=8823852



try harder
 
I pasted it in the original form in which the news agency displayed it. If you have a problem with their formatting, I'd take it up with them...

Right, you posted an article from a right wing source without taking a second to let it pass through some kind of filter in your head (I think we've had this conversation before).

If the fact that this is from worldnetdaily doesn't make your BS meter go off then the fact that they cherry picked statistics should have. But I guess it's easier to swallow what you are spoon fed on these idiotic web sites than to actually think for yourself.
 
Correlation does not imply causation in either case. The statistical predictor of gun control is conflated with many other variables. The city with gun control is probably very different from the city without it. The demographics, economic livelihood, population density, anything really, could be a conflating variable that is actually causing the increase/decrease in murder rates.
 
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