3rd year anniversary of Iraq Invasion

[CptStern]

today March 18th 2003 the US and it's coalition of the "willing" illegally and immorally invaded iraq. In a day of commemoration for that dark day people around the world are protesting the occupation of iraq. This is the first year I've missed the peaceful march on the US consulate in my home town ..have any of you joined the protests today in your home town?

 

[DeusExMachina]

I figure if the one in New York is still around when I have a car, I'll go join in on that.

 

[kaf11]

Stern, I wanted to go to the one today in Pittsburgh but I had to work. ;(

 

[CptStern]

I figure if the one in New York is still around when I have a car, I'll go join in on that.

it was today at noon


the last one I went to there were about 7000 people ..the first one had about 20K - 30K ...surprising how many families were there

kaf11: for some reason I thought you were from the UK

 

[Some_God]

today March 18th 2003 the US and it's coalition of the "willing" illegally and immorally invaded iraq. In a day of commemoration for that dark day people around the world are protesting the occupation of iraq. This is the first year I've missed the peaceful march on the US consulate in my home town ..have any of you joined the protests today in your home town?

Immorality is in the eye of the beholder. Now about the "illegality" part: The US, the most powerful nation in the world and the only one to have the ability to project its power ANYWHERE in the world, was threatened by another nation. Although that might be questionable, that is a satisfactory public justification.

Let me ask you a question Stern: What is your opinion on the invasion of the Suez Canal by the French and British to prevent Egypt from nationalizing it?

 

[kaf11]

kaf11: for some reason I thought you were from the UK

Sorry chap, what would ever give you that idea? Oh my, look at the time. Must be off for a spot of tea. Jolly good day sir. Fish and chips and all that.



(I have nothing but good will towards all of our British members, I just find the stereotypes to be hillarious)

 

[OvA]

I personally think the invasion was justified if carried out with a proper plan to reestablish the country, but it wasn't.

 

[The Monkey]

I thought the "anniversary" was on Monday.

 

[pomegranate]

I didn't go on any protests today, and I think that protesting against the occupation is pretty pointless and misguided. I was totally against the war before it began, going on two of the massive protests in London. But now it's a done thing. As terrible, immoral (because of the true motivations) and possibly illegal as the war was, and as much as I believe that our respective leaders (US and UK that is) are evil scumbags, removing the allied presence now would just make a bad situation far, far worse. The unrest in Iraq is not only against the foreign occupiers, it is also between Iraqis. Without an effective government and with a joke of an army, Iraq would descend into bloody tribalist chaos if Coalition forces left. This is obvious to anyone watching the news, so why anyone would protest that forces should be removed is a mystery to me.
The leaders made a political commitment and the soldiers made a professional commitment when the war began, and to leave now due to protests would be even an even worse decision than ignoring the protestors before the war. I think that the allied forces should remain and that more countries should become involved to share the regrettable burden. If the situation could be resolved with the military involvement of other countries, the US and UK governments would lose face, as they deserve to.
I think people who are still protesting perhaps think that if they continue to protest, the politicians will use their powers to turn back time? Well, I could of course be wrong, what are the motivations of anyone who is still protesting?

The US...was threatened by another nation. Although that might be questionable, that is a satisfactory public justification.

I'm not going to get in to an argument about this because I'm very confident in my own opinions on this matter, but please explain how the US was threatened by Iraq, and also please explain how whatever threat Iraq posed justifies the current situation (1000s of US soldiers dead, Iraq turned into a crucible of anti-US terrorism).
Also, do you think the current situation is preferable to other outcomes that may have been secured by other ways of responding to the threat?

 

[pomegranate]

oops 6char

 

[Some_God]

I'm not going to get in to an argument about this because I'm very confident in my own opinions on this matter, but please explain how the US was threatened by Iraq, and also please explain how whatever threat Iraq posed justifies the current situation (1000s of US soldiers dead, Iraq turned into a crucible of anti-US terrorism).
Also, do you think the current situation is preferable to other outcomes that may have been secured by other ways of responding to the threat?

The United States is a goverment representing the majority of Americans. The publically elected officials presentws the American population with documents and evidence of an emerging nuclear power in the ME. The majority of Americans, hence the United States, viewed Iraq as a threat.

Now I don't know if there were any "private" justifications for war, that might come out later (and heads will start rolling), but the justification was substantial.

 

[pomegranate]

edit: actually, nevermind, I don't want to make this thread go off-topic. Sorry.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I'd join a counter-protest, but there aren't enough leftists here that they have any form of protest, so there's nobody to counter-protest.

 

[pomegranate]

What's the idea of a counter protest?
Is it to express that you don't like people expressing an opinion that is in conflict with your own?

 

[Alexferris]

let's celebrate!

http://cyberwolf.ytmnd.com/

 

[CptStern]

What's the idea of a counter protest?
Is it to express that you don't like people expressing an opinion that is in conflict with your own?

yes ..it's the protest"warrior" creed

"we dont want you to have an opinion, we want you to remain ignorant"

here's their mascot

 

[French Ninja]

yes ..it's the protest"warrior" creed

"we dont want you to have an opinion, we want you to remain ignorant"

here's their mascot

So you condemn people who protest a neo nazi rally/protest in their town?

Or condemn people who are pro life who are peacefully counter-protesting against a group of pro choice protesters?

Or condemn anti disestablishing advocates protesting against anarchists/socialists who want a bs revolution in peaceful capitalist country?

Please.
People in the US are allowed to have different opinions, they don't have to be all far left.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

yes ..it's the protest"warrior" creed

"we dont want you to have an opinion, we want you to remain ignorant"

here's their mascot

I'm so very sorry, but the freedom of speech swings both ways. The ones with that creed are the ones who use violence at these events. Guess who usually ends up being violent and gets documented by PW Cameras? Hmm.

What's the idea of a counter protest?
Is it to express that you don't like people expressing an opinion that is in conflict with your own?

No, it's to express you don't like their opinion, not that you don't like their expression of the opinion. When you show someone as wrong, you're not stifling their freedom of speech, you're using yours productively.

 

[CptStern]

So you condemn people who protest a neo nazi rally/protest in their town?

Or condemn people who are pro life who are peacefully counter-protesting against a group of pro choice protesters?

Or condemn anti disestablishing advocates protesting against anarchists/socialists who want a bs revolution in peaceful capitalist country?

Please.
People in the US are allowed to have different opinions, they don't have to be all far left.

where did I say any of that? point out where I say no one has a right to counter protest.

I'm so very sorry, but the freedom of speech swings both ways. The ones with that creed are the ones who use violence at these events. Guess who usually ends up being violent and gets documented by PW Cameras? Hmm.

what does that have to do with anything?

No, it's to express you don't like their opinion, not that you don't like their expression of the opinion. When you show someone as wrong, you're not stifling their freedom of speech, you're using yours productively.

come on, I've seen their videos and racked up hundreds of posts on their forums ..they hope by disrupting the protests they'll blur their message and ultimately shut them up ..it's the mob version of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "nahnahnahnahnah" ..it's childish hypocritical and completely misguided ...in stead of trying to shut them up they should try to counter their points ..which they never do (I know from experience)

 

[French Ninja]

where did I say any of that? point out where I say no one has a right to counter protest.

You've made it quite clear that those who counter protest the war are ignorant and in denial.

"we dont want you to have an opinion, we want you to remain ignorant"

 

[CptStern]

You've made it quite clear that those who counter protest the war are ignorant and in denial.

"we dont want you to have an opinion, we want you to remain ignorant"

nice attempt at twisting my words ..funny how you omitted this part:

yes ..it's the protest"warrior" creed

"we dont want you to have an opinion, we want you to remain ignorant"


protest"warrior" look them up ..without the ""

 

[French Ninja]

nice attempt at twisting my words ..funny how you omitted this part:

yes ..it's the protest"warrior" creed

"we dont want you to have an opinion, we want you to remain ignorant"


protest"warrior" look them up ..without the ""

Does it make any difference? I don't see how having a right wing point of view makes one sub human. :|

 

[CptStern]

where the hell did you get that? point out where I said/implied they were subhuman?

 

[Alexferris]

So you disagree with counter-protests, although you support freedom of speech.

 

[satch919]

I was going to go to a rally near a University out here but it was pouring rain last night. Oh well, they usually have a protest every Friday so I'll go to the next one.

The United States is a goverment representing the majority of Americans. The publically elected officials presentws the American population with documents and evidence of an emerging nuclear power in the ME. The majority of Americans, hence the United States, viewed Iraq as a threat.

Now I don't know if there were any "private" justifications for war, that might come out later (and heads will start rolling), but the justification was substantial.

You have your head buried in the sand if you think that the US government is representing a majority of Americans. Our country has been sold out to foreign entities and corporations. Our country is looking more and more like a fascist state.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Those in power manipulated the intelligence coming out of Iraq to make it seem like they were building a mass of chemical and biological weapons. The American people bought into whatever the government and media said because there was still some level of trust in both; I didn't buy into it though. Reports have surfaced that Saddam saw Iran to be more of a threat than the US and didn't really think of us as adversaries. He was concerned about Iran developing a nuclear arsenal since their war with them in the 1980's. In addition, when our invasion of Iraq started, Saddam held a meeting to tell all of his commanding officers that they wouldn't be able to rely on chemical or biological weapons because they had destroyed them years before. Apparently, this brought the level of morale down significantly within the Iraqi command.

Our government knowingly lied to it's own people and to the entire world and it cost the lives of tens of thousands.

With Bush's approval ratings plummeting, we need to voice our outrage on the incompetence of this entire administration of criminals.

 

[DigiQ8]

wtf 3 years already ?!

 

[Glirk Dient]

The PWs are within their right to do what they do. Whether you agree with counter-protests is your own opinion. Counter-protests serve to represent the other side so things aren't as one sided so people not involved in the event have a chance at seeing both sides instead of being overwhelmed with just one side.

It also takes away from the power of the protest.

 

[Lemonking]

we should protest against.....




WORLD WHINING!!!!!!

 

[pomegranate]

the distinction I see between counter protests and say neo-nazi marches and violent pro-life activities is that the opinions of the pro-war counter protests are already over-represented in the mass media and government rhetoric, making protests to express said opinions a bit redundant, and drowning the expression of other opinions.

 

[Razor]

pro-war counter protests are already over-represented in the mass media

 

[DeusExMachina]

we should protest against.....




WORLD WHINING!!!!!!

We should protest against mother's getting knocked and having a baby.

Sometimes, Abortion is the only answer.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

the distinction I see between counter protests and say neo-nazi marches and violent pro-life activities is that the opinions of the pro-war counter protests are already over-represented in the mass media and government rhetoric, making protests to express said opinions a bit redundant, and drowning the expression of other opinions.

You have got to be kidding me. What fantasy nation are you living in? Can I see your newspaper?

 

[CptStern]

we should protest against.....




WORLD WHINING!!!!!!

yes because god forbid anyone should complain about the deaths of over 100,000 civilians :upstare: once again lemonchicken you prove you have no business being in the politics section

I have to agree with pomegranate. There is virtually NO anti-war sentiment expressed in mainstream US media ..flip on CNN or any network news .. the same shit is constantly being rugurgitated: "everything is A-OK, lets support our troops ...oh beautiful, for gracious skies, for amber waves of grain..."


frankly I find it sickening

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

yes because god forbid anyone should complain about the deaths of over 100,000 civilians :upstare: once again lemonchicken you prove you have no business being in the politics section

I have to agree with pomegranate. There is virtually NO anti-war sentiment expressed in mainstream US media ..flip on CNN or any network news .. the same shit is constantly being rugurgitated: "everything is A-OK, lets support our troops ...oh beautiful, for gracious skies, for amber waves of grain..."


frankly I find it sickening

You're living in a dreamworld.

 

[CptStern]

I find that hilarious Rakurai, considering you still hold on to the rediculous notion that the invasion of iraq is justified ...who's living in a dreamworld now?

you forget I live an hour from the US border ..I get a steady barrage of american media

the mainstream media is rarely even remotely critical of the invasion of iraq ..not in comparison to other media around the world

 

[pomegranate]

to clarify, yes I was talking about the US media, not the UK.

 

[15357]

I watch CNN from time to time and I almost never see any opinions about the war or anything (not counting the talk shows).

Perhaps its because their job is to broadcast news/information and not holding opinions.

 

[Solaris]

I watch CNN from time to time and I almost never see any opinions about the war or anything (not counting the talk shows).

Perhaps its because their job is to broadcast news/information and not holding opinions.

They only broadast 1/5 of the facts.

 

[15357]

They only broadast 1/5 of the facts.

No media ever broadcasts all the facts.

 

[Solaris]

No media ever broadcasts all the facts.

No but they selectivly broadcast things in order to give a unrealistic impression of a situation to the general public.