7 Hours?!

[15357]

people seem to assume that earth's armies were actually mobilized to fight when the combine invaded... that's unrealistic. It takes time for any war machine to get combat ready... it's not like all soldiers sleep next to a loaded M16, in a fueled M1-A1 tank. No... reserves have to be called in, soldiers need to get weapons from armories, jets and tanks need to be fueled and prepped, calls need to be made, chains of command established, etc. Now imagine trying to go from 0 to WAR as you're facing an overwhelming multidirectional invasion with absolutely no warning, and with large sections of the chain of command instaneously taken out by the citadels appearing. Not going to happen. Most likely scenario: the world's armies were scattered, uncoordinated, hastily equipped, fighting like cornered rats instead of actual fighting forces. The war was probably over before any of the armies had reached anything close to actual combat readiness. Not surprising it was over so fast.

think of it this way: there are two midievel knights fighting. Except, one is ready to go, and the other has to put on his plate armor while the first has already begun attacking him. Gonna be a pretty quick fight.

.02

i don't think that a knight would attack someone thats not ready for combat.
somthing called 'honor' i think....

and they did invade Xen meaning that they should have been ready. ........

 

[AIDisabled]

and they did invade Xen meaning that they should have been ready. ........

I can't see how. Did Earth have any indication of an impending invasion? And how does invading Xen help Earth know about the Combine invasion of Earth?

 

[15357]

they, or at least the USMC and the US army should have been aware of the impending alien threat.......

especially after the incident in BMRF.................

 

[AIDisabled]

they, or at least the USMC and the US army should have been aware of the impending alien threat.......

especially after the incident in BMRF.................

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but do you mean to suggest that the US army should've kept troops mobilized and standing by for the impending threat without a clue about when the invasion would happen? Keep troops on the ready 24/7/365? Is that even theoretically possible, knowing the basics of human nature?

 

[The_Wookie]

Your average grunt wouldn't know anything about any "impending alien threat" due to the fact that the average grunt is only a person, and a person faced with the certain attack from a completely unknown hostile threat is liable to panic and run. As has been pointed out, an army, especially one as large as the U.S./U.N. military forces require several weeks planning and mobilization to setup any practical form of defence.

Picture this.

There you are marching around the drill square/on your twenty mile training run. Bright flashes overhead... All of a sudden you are being bombarded from the stratosphere with energy based weapons. Your first instinct is to run/find shelter, not head straight to the armoury, where they guy in requisition is already screaming down the phone at the NCO saying nothing is fuelled/ammo stocked/serviced etc. Next thing you have aerial gunships strafing the ground and ground troops popping into existence via teleporters left, right and center, who immediately start shooting seven shades of the brown soft smelly stuff out of anything that moves...Your first instinct? You put up your hand s and say, "I surrender. Yes indeedy, Sir."

Now add to this that the men who make the decisions at the top have already been compromised and removed, no one can organise a camp fire singsong, let alone a world-wide co-ordinated defense.

7 hours, totally possible.....even seasoned soldiers know to stop fighting when there is no choice other than surrender or death.

 

[15357]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but do you mean to suggest that the US army should've kept troops mobilized and standing by for the impending threat without a clue about when the invasion would happen? Keep troops on the ready 24/7/365?

yes.....

theyre out there somewhere..............

and the USMC knew that they would come sometime sooner or later.......

"I surrender. Yes indeedy, Sir."

well, thats true............

so, i think that soldiers should be implanted with brain implants to stop any fear-mongering traitor behavior.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

so, i think that soldiers should be implanted with brain implants to stop any fear-mongering traitor behavior.

Good idea, which is why you never see a Combine Soldier surrender.

And there's still no evidence of Humanity invading Xen, besides some smashed tanks in the ending sequence of HL1 (which could have arrived through a random teleport, alongside the sand, in the same way bits of Xen (jump pads, bio-webbing) end up on Earth), and there's still no indication that the G-Man was implying that Earth was in control, when he said 'Xen is under our control, for the time being'.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[The_Wookie]

yes.....

theyre out there somewhere..............

and the USMC knew that they would come sometime sooner or later.

That's all well and good, but how do you train, prepare and co-ordinate a defense against an enemy you know NOTHING about. You don't know how tough/killable they are. You don't know what their level of technology is and how to provide ECM against it. You don't know WHEN they're coming (Do you have ANY idea how much it costs to keep a defensive world-wide force on permanent "ready" alert? It's far more than most governments can sanction). You don't know if they can compromise your chain of command right from the top. Lets face it, if there is a barracks on permanent alert and all the guards are looking out but suddenly an attack force appears in the middle of the camp everyone is going to get shot in the back.

You seem to be going by the assumption that we would KNOW they were coming by detecting movement "on the horizon" so to speak. We didn't, because they appeared suddenly.

I also imagine the worlds military forces would be thinly spread out having had to deal with the influx of Xen wildlife coming through the portal storms. Smaller groups of armed men are far easier to deal with than huge great military bases. Which would have been pelted from orbit anywho.

Sorry if that's a bit disjointed, I've only just woken up.

 

[15357]

oh........

argh, can't find argument.....

ok, so my new argument: the USMC should have surrendered at once

 

[Arathiel]

i don't think that a knight would attack someone thats not ready for combat.
somthing called 'honor' i think....

It was an analogy. If you would like me to break it down further, I'd be happy to. See, there are two knights. One is putting on armor. And by putting on armor, I mean getting an army into somesort of combat readiness. The second knight is already armored. And by armored, I mean his forces are already at full combat readiness. And he attacks the first knight. And by attack, I mean teleport his forces throughout the scattered pieces of the first knights armor (forces). And this second knight does not have honor, because he's not so much a 'knight' as the 'combine.'

Is that more clear?

and they did invade Xen meaning that they should have been ready. ........

I think other people covered this point allready. Suffice it to say, excecuting one military action does not guarantee accurate predictions of future military actions, especially those perpetrated by little-known or unknown opponents with advanced technology.

 

[15357]

It was an analogy. If you would like me to break it down further, I'd be happy to. See, there are two knights. One is putting on armor. And by putting on armor, I mean getting an army into somesort of combat readiness. The second knight is already armored. And by armored, I mean his forces are already at full combat readiness. And he attacks the first knight. And by attack, I mean teleport his forces throughout the scattered pieces of the first knights armor (forces). And this second knight does not have honor, because he's not so much a 'knight' as the 'combine.'

Is that more clear?



I think other people covered this point allready. Suffice it to say, excecuting one military action does not guarantee accurate predictions of future military actions, especially those perpetrated by little-known or unknown opponents with advanced technology.

*sighs*

pwned by good logic............ ;(

 

[AIDisabled]

That's all well and good, but how do you train, prepare and co-ordinate a defense against an enemy you know NOTHING about. You don't know how tough/killable they are. You don't know what their level of technology is and how to provide ECM against it. You don't know WHEN they're coming (Do you have ANY idea how much it costs to keep a defensive world-wide force on permanent "ready" alert? It's far more than most governments can sanction). You don't know if they can compromise your chain of command right from the top. Lets face it, if there is a barracks on permanent alert and all the guards are looking out but suddenly an attack force appears in the middle of the camp everyone is going to get shot in the back.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

What 15357 is saying is not even theoretically possible (keeping troops on stand by all the time; not just one platoon, but the entire army of the entire world) unless we're talking about robots. And HL's world clearly shows us that we're not that technologically advanced to build up huge armies of functional, cheap soldier-robots.

 

[Krabjuice]

Oh and back on subject: I know the Pulse Rifle is combine, but if your target is standing still the crosbow is a better option , if you are good anough, you can use it on moving targets, just calculate there speed and distance.

I'm sorry, but you've gotta be one hell of a moron to pull out a chunk of *medieval* weaponry, and expect to face off a unholy bombardment of not only Xen creatures, but the whole fricken Combine armada.

 

[15357]

That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

What 15357 is saying is not even theoretically possible (keeping troops on stand by all the time; not just one platoon, but the entire army of the entire world) unless we're talking about robots. And HL's world clearly shows us that we're not that technologically advanced to build up huge armies of functional, cheap soldier-robots.

you could have multiple shifts..........

group1: alert
g2: standby
g3:
g4 to g8 : same as g3.

perhaps.......

 

[AIDisabled]

you could have multiple shifts..........

group1: alert
g2: standby
g3:
g4 to g8 : same as g3.

perhaps.......

Again: it's not possible for an indefinite period of time. I mean, we're talking years and years of the same routine. What'll happen is that the politicians would consider all of this a waste of time and money (more important), and divert funds elsewhere--assuming they agreed to start such an operation in the first place.

What you're suggesting sounds feasible under a bug-world (read: the kind of behavior ants exhibit), but with humans, it's not possible.

The thing is that there is not definite idea when the invasion will take place. I mean, let's say a woman you know is gonna deliver a baby. Say she's only fifteen days pregnant. Will you stay on watch 24 hours a day right since then to, you know, monitor her progress, check for any contractions, get her into a hospital, etc, etc? You probably will not. That's still a wrong example because here the period is fixed (9 months). Now consider if the period is 9 years instead of 9 months; 90 years; 900 years; almost infinity. Now? Will you do it all from day 15? Probably not. That's what I'm trying to say.

 

[Krabjuice]

I agree, theres no way you can keep ginormous chunks of soldiers on standby. Like, for f-s sake, you're proposing that we keep..what.. a 24th of humanity's fighters on hand at every possible second, rotating on hour shifts.. what the hell is that going to do? Across the world, people don't exactly get along.. especially in the military, and they'ed be damned if they had to pay billions of dollars a day in salaries to wait for some invasion that they don't even know is comming! Your plan, 15357, requires that:
1- You know about this invasion beforehand.
2- Are able to co-odinate a worldwide effort to keep a shitload of soldiers awake at every possible moment.. even in the rare case that if you are able to acheive 1, people will believe you.
3- If you manage to get 2 in place, then you've gotta feed, arm, house, monitor and pay these soldiers. Thats a lot of money, my friend. Lets think, we've gotta build our off-duties a couple of bases to sleep in when they're not working.. thats what, o'say.. $50,000,000 (each) to build it (That includes the cost of training facilities, storage, and individual housing for about 300 soldiers and their families, offices, communication equipment, and various other stuffs.).. coupled with the cost to maintain it, staff it, and power it.. and this isn't even including the cost of weaponry, vehicles, rations and everyhting else that goes into maintaining a small army. Now, multiply that by the world.. thats alot of money.

 

[Jack Thomas]

I'll put the nuking option out of question. If Russia and Usa and all other nuclear-countries whould start using nukes against Combine, it whould cause a second Ice Age. This happens cause the pollution of the nuclear warheads whould create a massive cloud which whould go between Earth and the sun. When no sun, no more warm places. No more warm, more cold and tadaa, humanity has just maeby liberated themselves from the Combine by making them pull out cause of noticing what earth had become but the only downside is, that we are going to freeze to death. Well..if we go live underground with air-generators, then humanity might surive, but atleast then it whould be remembered when Humans kicked Combine ass and maked them leave.

And the next rulers of the world will be the Finn's, Sweden's, Russian's and Norweigians cause we are used to cold here, heheh.

 

[DarkStar]

I'll put the nuking option out of question. If Russia and Usa and all other nuclear-countries whould start using nukes against Combine, it whould cause a second Ica Age. This happens cause the pollution of the nuclear warheads whould create a massive cloud which whould go between Earth and the sun. When no sun, no more warm places. No more warm, more cold and tadaa, humanity has just maeby liberated themselves from the Combine by making them pull out cause of noticing what earth had become but the only downside is, that we are going to freeze to death. Well..if we go live underground with air-generators, then humanity might surive, but atleast then it whould be remembered when Humans kicked Combine ass and maked them leave.

And the next rulers of the world will be the Finn's, Sweden's, Russian's and Norweigians cause we are used to cold here, heheh.

It's called "nuclear winter."

 

[AJ Rimmer]

I'll put the nuking option out of question. If Russia and Usa and all other nuclear-countries whould start using nukes against Combine, it whould cause a second Ica Age. This happens cause the pollution of the nuclear warheads whould create a massive cloud which whould go between Earth and the sun. When no sun, no more warm places. No more warm, more cold and tadaa, humanity has just maeby liberated themselves from the Combine by making them pull out cause of noticing what earth had become but the only downside is, that we are going to freeze to death. Well..if we go live underground with air-generators, then humanity might surive, but atleast then it whould be remembered when Humans kicked Combine ass and maked them leave.

And the next rulers of the world will be the Finn's, Sweden's, Russian's and Norweigians cause we are used to cold here, heheh.

A plan with no drawback in other words. :afro:

 

[Jack Thomas]

It's called "nuclear winter."

No shit, Sherlock. Forgot to mention it on my post.

 

[Krabjuice]

And thus, the Fallout series begins.

 

[$kelet0r]

the circle is complete

 

[Teh_Poet]

I really think they fought America and I really think they won, due to two main points. You see Gunships attacking the UN Headquarters in New York, its on the Black Mesa note board.
Point two, America is not invincible, nor god like. In fact, if France found a way to disable your warheads, France could wipe you off the face of the planet.

I have two main points.

One) You can't disable the warheads, so it doesn't matter.
Two) Even if you could, America is surrounded by oceans. There was no way you could even land on the continent without them sinking at least half of your troops.

 

[Ames]

You guys have forgotten the Portal Storms.

Earth's military would have had been on full alert because of them.

 

[Flyingdebris]

yeah but the portal storms meant groups of disorganized alien fauna. Not a fullscale invasion.

As for T3h Poet's two points.

1. it doesn't matter if you can't disable them, the combine don't care, they'll blow em up before we even remember we have em.

2. what shore? these things teleported into the middle of cities everywhere at once!

 

[Jack Thomas]

And thus, the Fallout series begins.

How could it be Fallout cause there is ice and snow everywhere cause of the phenomena? At Fallout, yu fight at a wasteland, desert and destroyed cities

 

[The_Wookie]

You guys have forgotten the Portal Storms.

Earth's military would have had been on full alert because of them.

I covered this eventuality already. Earths forces would have been too thinly spread out to deal with an organised invasion if they were out chasing down headcrabs and bullsquids. If you put the ENTIRE worlds fighting force on the ground next to each other, you would still barely fill up France....

We are talking actual physical men per square kilometer.

Face it, the Combine kicked ass, there was nothing we could do about it.

 

[Jandor]

One) You can't disable the warheads, so it doesn't matter.
Two) Even if you could, America is surrounded by oceans. There was no way you could even land on the continent without them sinking at least half of your troops.

I see we have a blind patriot.

IF France disabled your warheads (it dosn't matter that they couldn't, for the purposes of the scenario I presented they did) they could wipe out all major cities. You don't land troops if your objective is to wipe the opponent of the face of the Earth, you do that if you wan't to conquer the opposition.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

The Combine hit everyone in a blind spot. The USA, just like the UK, Japan, Poland, Australia, Korea, Finland, Ghana, and every other country in the world, were absolutely asskicked by the Combine.
No matter how much you love your contry, it's not going to stop the Combine from pwning it.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Jandor]

Amen Brother.

 

[Black Ops4]

I have two main points.

One) You can't disable the warheads, so it doesn't matter.
Two) Even if you could, America is surrounded by oceans. There was no way you could even land on the continent without them sinking at least half of your troops.

One) You can always just blow them up. I bet the Combine didn't care if radioactive material was released from detonated nuclear warheads. Besides, I'm sure it would be possible to somehow disable them, I mean, you have to have a button to launch them from somewhere. What happens if someone destroys the launch controls? Targeting equipment?

Two) Firstly, the USA isn't completely surrounded by oceans. Secondly, I'm sure that the US navy doesn't patrol every area of the coast all the time. North America has a pretty big coastline. If a large fleet supported by aircraft suddenly attacked without warning they could land quite easily I think.
Plus they don't necessarily have to land on US owned shores, they could come through Canada or Mexico, two countries that a lot of Americans seem to dislike (I don't understand it, I've met Canadians and Mexicans and don't see anything wrong with them).

Lastly, the Combine would have simply teleported to many locations all over the USA. It doesn't matter if you are surrounded by oceans if they just teleport a strider or two onto the White House and Pentagon. I bet the world leaders were killed off pretty quickly, then the military would be leaderless and have no idea what to do while the Combine mopped them up.

 

[Ennui]

Unbelievably enormous metal buildings suddenly APPEAR in the center of your city, behind all of your defenses and completely suprising you. Immediate chaos erupts as millions of civilians try to flee the city, going AWAY from the building and impeding the progress of your military. Hundreds of gunships are darkening the air, firing strange, powerful weapons and shooting down most rockets you fire at them. You're disoriented, confused, getting massacred, and in the middle of an uncontrolled riot of never-before-seen proportions. Combine soldiers are pouring from the metal citadel by the thousands and you're cut off and alone, a small unit of no more than 10 men.

Do you think you'd even last 7 hours?

 

[Rafa 5.0]

Woot!!! read all 11 pages just now....

... completely off the subject, when you teleport with Alyx, the one that takes like a week, that teleportation device is INSIDE the citadel right??? You are actually inside breen's building and I guess you blow a chunk of the citadel out, then the rebellion starts?
cuz i think I read somewhere that was a novaprospekt teleport chamber but not inside the actual citadel....

 

[terrorist420]

Im pretty sure that was proskpect

 

[Asknoone]

Woot!!! read all 11 pages just now....

... completely off the subject, when you teleport with Alyx, the one that takes like a week, that teleportation device is INSIDE the citadel right??? You are actually inside breen's building and I guess you blow a chunk of the citadel out, then the rebellion starts?
cuz i think I read somewhere that was a novaprospekt teleport chamber but not inside the actual citadel....

Yes, thats the Nova Prospekt teleporter, your a looong way from the citadel at that time.

And the teleporter explosion takes pretty much the whole prison with it

 

[15357]

I agree, theres no way you can keep ginormous chunks of soldiers on standby. Like, for f-s sake, you're proposing that we keep..what.. a 24th of humanity's fighters on hand at every possible second, rotating on hour shifts.. what the hell is that going to do? Across the world, people don't exactly get along.. especially in the military, and they'ed be damned if they had to pay billions of dollars a day in salaries to wait for some invasion that they don't even know is comming! Your plan, 15357, requires that:
1- You know about this invasion beforehand.
2- Are able to co-odinate a worldwide effort to keep a shitload of soldiers awake at every possible moment.. even in the rare case that if you are able to acheive 1, people will believe you.
3- If you manage to get 2 in place, then you've gotta feed, arm, house, monitor and pay these soldiers. Thats a lot of money, my friend. Lets think, we've gotta build our off-duties a couple of bases to sleep in when they're not working.. thats what, o'say.. $50,000,000 (each) to build it (That includes the cost of training facilities, storage, and individual housing for about 300 soldiers and their families, offices, communication equipment, and various other stuffs.).. coupled with the cost to maintain it, staff it, and power it.. and this isn't even including the cost of weaponry, vehicles, rations and everyhting else that goes into maintaining a small army. Now, multiply that by the world.. thats alot of money.

this is exactly why we need to transform those oldthinkers into goodthinkers who actually bellyfeel INGSOC.

these people are doubleplusungood people who are spouting duckspeak.


um........ yeah...




(the above was written due to the fact that the writer could not find a valid and respectable counter-argument for this)

 

[The_Wookie]

[ Besides, I'm sure it would be possible to somehow disable them, I mean, you have to have a button to launch them from somewhere. What happens if someone destroys the launch controls? Targeting equipment.[/QUOTE]

You could b0rk the targetting equipment, and all the other electrical systems needed to launch any kind of attack, neutralize communication equipment, knock planes outta skies and disable land going assault vehicles with one single thing.

EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse)

It would have to be quite a hefty one, but anything with electronics inside it, that were powered up would get fried, almost instantly.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

EMPs also screw up equipment that isn't on, by the way. As far as I know, they work by inducing current in electronic circuits, which pops transistors and capacitors.

Turning stuff off will reduce an EMP's damage, but EMPs tend to still blow stuff up.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[The_Wookie]

Fank j00 for that informative comment.

Always happy to be corrected if I am a bit off :thumbs:

 

[MarcoPollo]

Yeh my friend made a smal EMP emitter ad blew his CD player out even though it wasnt on and there were no batteries in it, plus emp can mess up other things as well.