A downside to high tech game engines

Plug

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Well in the future me and my brother have plans to make a half life 2 multiplayer mod. We're serious about it, and have a lot of plans written down so as soon a the game is released we can get to work.

Valve has always been fantastic with the mod community in providing the tools and support for new games to be created and to become succesful... This time around they seem to be doing an even better job, not only to prolong the life of their new game but I believe they genuinely respect the community and want to help them out as much as possible.

The tools we have so far (or know about, at least) are the halflife 2 exclusive edition of XSI for modelling, hammer the level editor, faceposer for all that facey stuff, the source code and content, which just comes with the game anyway. Now while this is fantastic, over the last few years technology has increased so dramatically that now it is no longer as easy for a person to, lets say, model a humanoid character, or to create a map that matches half life 2's detail level - not without a considerably larger learning curve (and not to mention a boost in patience).

One step valve has made to combat this is by including material presets for maps, and hundreds of prefabricated objects from the game for people to insert into their maps... Great! So i guess mapping isn't so bad... Hammer is a particularly easy to use editor, and people will probably get the hang of moulding out their shapes, and using the prefabs will be a kick start... But what about modelling? Will there be special plugins to say... mould a face and reposition it's features, with ease? Without having to learn a professional modelling tool? Sure the concept is pretty easy, but the detail it now takes is massive... Will the modelling community catch up? Will models in mods look like crap forever? Will there be a modeller shortage in the community?

Maybe valve will include 'stock' models and skins for people to modify freely, like prefabs for maps, although in the form of skin shades, head sizes, nose shapes, etc etc It seems like something valve would do... although maybe not that far =) Fingers crossed though...

What do you guys think about this?
 
The HL2 XSI contains prefabricated humans which you can change the parameters of to create different people.
 
Its just the advancment of technology.

I myself have no idea how to do anything, modeling, mapping coding, which in HL1 im sure you find very easy. People will get the hang of it, and if they cant, theyd probably make shitty mods anyway and shouldnt be in the biz.
 
I had the same opinion as Plug at first but it's changed.

When i see mod makers making stuff like this
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26838
that is easily up to the standard set by Valve, in terms of actual model detail it looks better than the CS:S models.

Getting facial animations to work properly, if people choose to have them, will be one of the harder tasks. And some mods will no doubt start off looking like crud but will improve over time.

Day of defeat very early beta 1.2 i think http://games.bigpond.com/pc/resources/screenshots/images//Day of Defeat/ingame1.jpg

Day of defeat v 1.0
http://dod.xrea.jp/news/boom2.jpg
 
I bet it won't be hard to make cool mods and maps. It wasn't really that hard to make maps and stuff in HL if you were serious on it.
 
i held this exact point of view for a while, i think it is still valid because although only really talented people can make models and maps it does stifle the urge for people to learn when things appear so complicated and difficult to make.
 
What has really happened over the years , is that skill has become more important to producing content.
More time and effort goes into producing something , but less of that time is spent on working around badly made tools and making sense of over-complicated interfaces and procedures.

Whilst I agree that many people will be put off making content because the artistic bar is higher than ever , others will be naturally drawn to it because they have to spend less time translating their (artistic) skills into finished results.
 
The tools are there to make our jobs easier. It doesnt mean you can do those jobs with out knowing how to do it. Im in college right now learning modelling and animation, and its awesome. You have to start somewhere, and you will end up where you want if you keep on trucking. There are tons of resources out there to learn from, dont be afraid to open up a program and start playing around with it.

Yes new engines do increase the mod makers workload, but thats only if they wish to create high calibre games. I am one of those people, and my team feels the same way. We will learn what we dont know of the new technology, and expand our skills accordingly. If you just want to make a mod just to make one, thats fine, but if you want to make games in the end, why not learn it all now?
 
My personal feeling on all matters that involve advancing technology making things more difficult has always been 'Boohoo, get over it'. No offense to anybody, but if you don't want to work hard to make your ideas a reality, then the creative fields are not for you. If you really, really think your idea is kick ass, then you could write up a design doc and present it to some people who have the skills that you lack. That's called building a mod team. Gone forever are the days of the one man mod. Anything worth mentioning will almost always come from a group of skilled and dedicated people with one common goal. So if you and your brother really want to make your mod, you should go about finding some people who can help you along the path.

Yes, the more complex tools will drive some people away. But I see it as a benefit rather than a problem. If it keeps just one crappy CS clone from becoming a reality, then its purpose has been served. The complexification (if that's not a word, it should be) of an industry is inevitable. Consumers always demand something better than what is already available. In order to produce something better, you inevitabley have to get more complicated. That will never change unless some strange mind control device from outer space makes people start craving Space Invader style graphics in their FPS games.
 
Man you guys don't know how easy we used to have it back in the day.

When Pong came out I made a mod of it. Instead of two white rectangular paddles hitting a white sqaure ball on a black background I made a mod where you were a black square ball avoiding these black rectangular paddles on a white background.

The whole mod took 5 minutes to make (remember our computer ran on 64 bytes of ram back then).

My game 'Spank the Monkey' became a great hit and I made 1 meellliiooon dollars.
 
Making higher res models isn't much harder than making lower res models. People who use splines don't really care about that much anyway, because splines are mathematically calculated curves which can be used to create a low or high poly mesh. Same thing for NURBs basically.
It's not that much harder, and a lot of people find higher poly modelling easier than lower poly modelling.
 
judging from how far some people took the HL engine, and that was to the very max, i think they will also do the same with Source. We will find its limits, but I think that will be a great and glorious day.. to find that you've gone as far as you possibly can...
 
Crusader said:
The HL2 XSI contains prefabricated humans which you can change the parameters of to create different people.

Really? I tried for such option but didn't any.. I guess I have to look harder.
 
Ya right now HL2 looks really amazing, but just wait a year or two and the community will start churning out some really spectacular stuff once the full capabilities of the engine are explored.
 
Yep. We'll get past barrel physics mania soon :D
 
One man mod teams are far from dead, trust me. I'm still waiting for the current fad of people leading mods without actually contributing anything further than 'ideas man'. The majority of these people are simply trying to get glory out of other peoples' work. Those few who aren't are usually willing to actually learn a skill to contribute though.

-Angry Lawyer
 
Agree ^^

I'm actually looking forward to seeing some of the smaller projects tbh, most of the larger mods ive seen for HL2 so far look kind of boring imo.
 
The majoirty of the larger ones (with a few notable exceptions) are all about rather cliche'd subjects, including (but not limited to):

World War 2
World War 3
Post-Apocalyptic
Counter-Terrorism
Modern Warfare
Zombies

There are a few minor overdone cliches about too, but they're done by smaller mod teams. Vampires, and gang war seem to be dominant.

*note* just realised a gramattical inconsistancy in my last post. It should have read 'contribute anything further than the 'ideas man' to end'. I sound stupid there.

-Angry Lawyer
 
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