A world without religion?

[ComradeBadger]

But at least nationalism is grounded in the real world. It can be approached by human intellect. The same can't be said for supernatural entities that allegedly operate on a totally different (and often unrelatable) set of standards and rules.

In any case, yes. Blind nationalism is also bad. But that doesn't diminish the impact that religion has. To be quite blunt, what does fanatic nationalism have to do with religion, other than the fact that they're both negative forces in the world? I'm only focusing on religion because it is the topic. In no way am I implying that there are no other forces that have massive destructive potential. My reasoning is simply thus: why not attempt to remove at least one of them?

I'm not arguing against it's removal at all, I'm just saying they're comparable. And that a world without religion would probably swiftly develop a new means of control. That's my argument in a nutshell.


(The criticism thing was concern disagreements within the same faith, but still )

 

[Flyingdebris]

I don't think religion is a benign force. Its just that for the most part it is weilded as a political force more than anything else. The same sort of irrational zealotry found in religion can be found in just about any other movement or group.

So, let me put things another way.

Would you want to live in a world where you could not think as you please, for your own good?

 

[99.vikram]

Such as Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, and Sikhism. I believe natural religion isn't much of a threat since these religions don't focus on an all powerful God or outdated texts commanding undivided obedience advocating violent acts. Religions such as Deism, Taoism and Buddhism.

Hinduism doesn't have any one supreme text, and from personal experience I can say that stupidity and fundamentalism still exists in Hindu society.

Besides, Buddhism may not have a sacred text, but in many sects he is worshippedas as a god/messenger of god.

 

[Jintor]

Let's just go back to the 'moral code religion', right? -_-

 

[Danimal]

A world without religion...?

 

[NeptuneUK]

Epic win

 

[Solaris]

A world without religion

 

[Dynasty]

A world without religion -

Welcome to the world. Its safer here (now).

 

[Kula Meenur]

A world without religion...?

http://www.iearnpk.org/PD/world-peace.jpg

Yeah, it would a pretty interesting place

 

[Nemesis6]

Interesting as in we'd all be the same, heh, riiight. South Park once again rings in my ears:

Sea otter overlord: "Science damn you, United Atheist Alliance!"

United Atheist Alliance - "Now you see, foolish Sea otters, that WE are the atheists in control!"

 

[kirovman]

As ridiculous as that South Park episode is, it does drive a good point.

That is: people are stupid and will group together to kill each other for any unsubstantial reason.

 

[15357]

Religion fractures empires from within, rotting them from the core.

 

[Shift]

religion?

RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! THE ATHEISTS ARE COMING!

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

religion?

RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! THE ATHEISTS ARE COMING!

We're already here *creepy laugh*

 

[NightBlade]

It would be a very grim world, there would be no hope for anything it would be horrible. People get their morals from Religion without morals it would just be the biggest strongest person controls.

 

[CptStern]

It would be a very grim world, there would be no hope for anything it would be horrible. People get their morals from Religion without morals it would just be the biggest strongest person controls.

utter and complete nonsense ..I am not religious yet have a moral centre ..I'm also willing to bet I am far more tolerant than you are ..so by your train of logic religion pushes intolerence (anti-gay, anti-pro choice etc) .therefore a world without religion would be a world without intolerence

 

[Absinthe]

It would be a very grim world, there would be no hope for anything it would be horrible. People get their morals from Religion without morals it would just be the biggest strongest person controls.

No.

Stop.

 

[gick]

It would be a very grim world, there would be no hope for anything it would be horrible. People get their morals from Religion without morals it would just be the biggest strongest person controls.

Im willing to bet you dont get most of your morals from the Bible. If you did, you'd be stoning to death gays, rape victims and disobedient children, and wiping out entire towns because a preacher from an other religion paid them a visit.

 

[Absinthe]

Also, if a woman ever disrupts a fight between two men by grabbing one's genitals, they must both turn upon her and cut off her hand.

I like that ruling the most, just because of its absurdity. God actually had to decree a law specifically for genital protection.

 

[Shift]

Having a little faith doesn't hurt imo, many people worldwide need religion, as it helps them as a person or helps them grasp things they find scary like death, the universe etc. Taking religion away may greatly increase the paranoia and fear of many, many people worldwide. Also, lack religion can be dangerous, as more and more extremists will come to surface believing that they are the boss of their own life, and may increase the levels of murders, rapes and mass killings etc.

On the otherhand, without religion, many people would stop wasting their time taking a bunch of crap in their life by simply saying, 'its ok, ill have happiness in heaven', more people will start cherishing this life they live now, terrorists no longer can blame their insane actions on 'Allah commands to do blow this plane up!', it will stop people losing faith in science simply because aspects of it are going against their beliefs etc.

Im on the faith side obviously, but i thought i would address the question from both sides of the argument

 

[Absinthe]

I don't buy the argument that many people in the world need religion. If they do, it's only because there has been no progress in pushing forward secular solutions. In any case, the religious solutions are always half-assed.

Scared of death? Just pretend it isn't final, and that there's a paradise waiting for you after you pass away.
Need a reason not to murder or rape somebody? Look in a holy text.
Don't understand something? Just chalk it up to the mysterious workings of a great being.

We have ways of dealing with these without the necessitation of faith-based mysticism. The rest of the world should be pushed towards adopting secular reasoning. Not babied with religion.

 

[99.vikram]

RELIGION - Certified substitute for intelligence.

(God Approves)

 

[DEATHMASTER]

I believe the death rate would be higher, and hence, less overpopulation (probably not that significant).

 

[99.vikram]

I believe the death rate would be higher, and hence, less overpopulation (probably not that significant).

How so?

If anything, less conflict = less death.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

From what I heard in statistics, religious people tend to live longer, I don't know but I think it's because they're have something 'good' to look forward to all the time; more happiness = longer life? I don't know. But I didn't consider the whole 'my religion, **** yours' thing going on :x

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Dunno what thats about, I'm much happier as an athiest than as a thiest.

 

[Shift]

Ya depends on your beleifs

 

[Kadayi]

Also, I can't actually imagine early humanity without religion, it just played too much of a role in the society (Egyptians, tribes of Mesopotania etc.).

I must admit I'm not aware of there being any form of early human society that didn't subscribe to the worship of a Godhead or pantheon of some kind. Even the most removed populations (like the aborigines) seem to have carried out worship of one kind or another.

How so? If anything, less conflict = less death.

If there is no religion why would you assume there would be less killing, assault, rape and robbery? Generally the people I see who commit those sort of acts aren't remotely religious in nature in the first place.

 

[Xiphos]

conflict on a larger scale, crusades, jihad etc

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Generally the people I see who commit those sort of acts aren't remotely religious in nature in the first place.

Oh great here we go :hmph:

Thats because people who do these things are insane.

 

[Polaris]

Nice interview with Christopher Hitchens:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NK2BcQV8qs[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Kadayi]

conflict on a larger scale, crusades, jihad etc

That's a rather nebulous position. I mean the crusades for all their apparent religious fervour were driven by political ambition by Kings, Popes and nobles rather than direct religious teachings (any historian or worth will validate this). Also the Crusades happened over 800 years ago and compared to some of the conflicts that have occurred throughout our history the casualties involved were a drop in the ocean. As for Jihad...it's a phrase often bandied around, but I'm not aware of any instances of it ever being more than simply that.

Practically half the Chinese population at the time (60 million) died as a result of Genghis Khan's rise to power in the 14th Century, simply because they resisted his will. Our good friend Joseph Stalin killed over 10 million of his own people for crimes against the state.

 

[.Wolf.]

a world without religion would truly be a utopia.

R-etarded
E-evil
L-osers
I-nside
G-ods
I-rritating
O-pium
N-ebula

 

[Solaris]

From what I heard in statistics, religious people tend to live longer, I don't know but I think it's because they're have something 'good' to look forward to all the time; more happiness = longer life? I don't know. But I didn't consider the whole 'my religion, **** yours' thing going on :x

Correlation -cause fallacy probably.

 

[Nemesis6]

A world without religion would be no different than the one we have today.

 

[Absinthe]

A world without religion would be no different than the one we have today.

Now that is such a specious claim.

Religion is not only a huge component in history, but in modern life as well. Do you honestly believe that its absence would mean squat?

 

[Vegeta897]

/me dips into politics

I don't even understand why this is worth pondering. Religion is part of human nature. A world without it would mean a different human race. It's like asking "what if humans were herbivores" or "what if gravity were twice as strong" it doesn't matter in the slightest, things would be different, obviously; what is to gain from this discussion?

 

[Kadayi]

I don't even understand why this is worth pondering. Religion is part of human nature. A world without it would mean a different human race. It's like asking "what if humans were herbivores" or "what if gravity were twice as strong" it doesn't matter in the slightest, things would be different, obviously; what is to gain from this discussion?

Vegeta

You'll find the majority of the posters in the politics forums are rabid Atheists (as opposed to moderates like myself) and like nothing more than to blame the failings of the world almost exclusively at religions door (generally Christianity), ad infinitum. Threads like this are merely another opportunity for them to roll out more cliches to reinforce their own prejudices. Don't expect constructive debate here, people only know how to knock things down, not build them up.

 

[Shift]

Vegeta

You'll find the majority of the posters in the politics forums are rabid Atheists (as opposed to moderates like myself) and like nothing more than to blame the failings of the world almost exclusively at religions door (generally Christianity), ad infinitum. Threads like this are merely another opportunity for them to roll out more cliches to reinforce their own prejudices. Don't expect constructive debate here, people only know how to knock things down, not build them up.

Well said, its true that there is absultely no compromise within these walls and they stop at nothing to crush any argument, however slight, that apposes theres. The term 'everyone is entitled to their beliefs' makes their blood boil lol.

 

[Absinthe]

Vegeta

You'll find the majority of the posters in the politics forums are rabid Atheists (as opposed to moderates like myself) and like nothing more than to blame the failings of the world almost exclusively at religions door (generally Christianity), ad infinitum. Threads like this are merely another opportunity for them to roll out more cliches to reinforce their own prejudices. Don't expect constructive debate here, people only know how to knock things down, not build them up.

Kadayi, please drop the straw men. It's not my fault you're sympathetic to religion, nor is it my fault that religion itself (and Christianity in particular) is a backwards force in the world. As for religion being part of human nature? Dubious. You could argue that being irrational is part of human nature, since nobody is perfect. But that manifests itself in varying ways and degrees.

Shift, such a statement does not make my blood boil. What does do the trick is the implication that everybody needs to respect everybody else's beliefs. That is certainly not the case, and this is made quite obvious by any "9/11 Conspiracy" topic on this forum. The amount of bile, hatred, animosity, and sheer mockery such threads hold demonstrates one's ability and moral obligation to forcefully reject stupid ideas. But the moment you turn this around to religion? That's just not cricket, mate! That's when you get people like Kadayi prancing in on his shining steed of moderation.

If you make an argument, no matter how small, then I would hope to high heaven that you'd expect a response. That's kind of the way it goes. And what is there to compromise about? Why should science and reason come to the negotiations table with retarded mysticism?