a WW2 mod, seen from a germans eyes

B

bear^

Guest
Well, we all have this WW2 games where we are fed with "germans are bastards, kill them". I want to change that.

I always say that a case have 2 sides, and as well dos the 2nd world war. Yes, i know not all germans where nice, but so where the russian, but we see them as good people becaus they defended the german war machine. That they killed, raped and plunderd germans is something we never hear off.

This is just a idea, in the start spot and just a thouth i had. I have no web pages, no forums. Nothing. If you are interested in this idea and want to continue with it, contact me on email (at the bottom of this thread).

My idea is that the game start in 1936. You are a 16 year old boy. The NSDAP have gotten theyr power and the "hitlerjügen" is on the startup. And your mother is a lover of the nazis. You are given away, so your mother can get a medal, and words of thanks from Hitler. From 1936 to 1939 you are under nazi controlle, getting fed with propaganda on who are the bad guy and whos the nice one. Typical nazi propaganda. In 1940 you are recruted to a division of the german forces, on theyr way into russia. This is where you take controlle.

You take the part of Herman Strabe. A 20 year old soldier that only wanted to be what hes father was befor the war. A merchant. Faith didnt want it that way. Through 5 years of battle you see the war from the germans point of viewe, how this soldier is walking from beliving in this war, to hate it. To hate what germans stand for. To hate himself.

I thouth of both known and fiction missions in this game, like the dessert war seen from the germans viewe, landing on D-day and battle for Berlin.

Now many might now think that im trying to justify what the germans did, something thats not the point. Im sick of this CoD games, MoH and everything that puts EVERY german soldier as a bad guy that you can shoot like mad becaus he is everywhere. Some did not want to fight in the war, some only did the fighting to save theyr family and some did fight becaus they where sold by theyr mothers, like out main character.

Now i have worked with level designin befor, though im sorry to say i have nothing to show from. I had my maps on a DVD, and only God knows where that is now.

So if you find this interesting and might want to try it out, contant me on [email protected]

Pleas feel free to comment this idea, though to so constructive. Dont shout out "nazi lover" becaus im from Norway, and we did have our part of dead people becaus of the Nazis. Constructive feedback thanks. Nothing good to say, nothing to say at all now is it?
 
first of all. is english your first language? i suggest you run your thread through word spell checker. i think many people would be offended by the idea of this mod. i also think you need to do some work before people will become interested. its not a bad idea.
 
I'm a US American and I approve this idea.

People are people and no country is innocent.
 
No, english aint my first language, i dont have word (cant find my copy of Office). Second, i would realy like that people dont comment my writing, becaus if you can read it and understand it, then whats the problem?

Its just a general idea and a picture of a idea i have in mind. If people are offende by theyr own history seen from a counterparts eyes then, well, they have to understand both sides of the story. History have good sides and bad sides. If we are to be offended when the talk of the "wrong side" is the subject then i think people need to rethink a little. Like it or not, the germans where a part of that history and they cant be concluded as cold and brutal people that killed everything they saw.

We approve the russians as saving heros of ww2, despite what they did during theyr battles and after battles. We need to see the same with the germans.
 
I think the general difference, and the thing that will put people off right from the very start is that the other countries involved in WW2 didn't delibrately kill several million innocent people in a near-successful attempt at genocide. It's very hard to try and moralise that into a perspective that you can play from.
 
I.e. just make a game from the Polish perspective, because that'd be better.

-Angry Lawyer
 
Surely this is a groundbreaking title that will make us rethink our stance on nazism.
It turns out they were the villains all along!

This just in: Stalin - also not a nice guy!

Following nazi orders, even begrudgedly, is likely about as much fun as being attacked by genital bees, so who's going to want to volunteer to do exactly that?

With the glut of world-war mods out there, I'd estimate there maybe a billion better ideas for a mod, including such gems as "Opposing Shephard" and "Dinosaur Halo: Source".
So why not go with a good idea instead?
 
Mechagodzilla said:
"Dinosaur Halo: Source"
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:LOL:

No seriously, unless it's anything new rather than a change of perspective, ditch WW2.
 
Unless you are a very skilled craftsman in terms of game development, I think the subtlety of portraying this idea effectively will not come through. Games have never been the best medium for telling a story about very complex internal forces and struggles, and that sort of delicate touch is what a story that attempts to humanize a cog in an undeniably evil machine would need. Otherwise, it's just not going to be something that someone wants to do. At least, I'd hope it wasn't something that someone would want to experience. I'm sure there are many neo-nazis who would love to exterminate some Jews in a video game, and shoot up some allied forces, and I'm afraid that they would be your audience, regardless of the actual intent.

If you really wanted to go forward with this idea, I would suggest that you might force the player to commit an atrocity of sorts early on (a superior officer makes them execute an innocent civilian in the street, or something of that nature, killing the player if they refuse), then realize the awful thing they've done, renouncing their party and going awol. Then you could show them as a morally sound person, but put them in conflict with both sides, an allied force unwilling to harbour them, and an axis force which views them as a criminal. This would also create many exciting "video game" scenarios, in which they are caught fighting both sides as they fight one another.

I really don't think this is a very good idea, though.
 
does anyone remember milgrams study of obedience? it was recently recreated by derren brown. after the war when captured germans were asked why they tortured innocent people they said it was because they were ordered to do it. you may find studying this experiment useful if you decide to continue with this idea. also what skills do you actualy have to offer a team?
 
Next, we can have a mod where you are a surgeon for the Japanese on Chichi Jima, and you go from loving your country to questioning your very purpose because you have to cut apart executed US pilots and serve their organs to your commanding officers, but you aren't a bad person because you were ordered to. Gameplay would be like Milton Bradley's Operation: Source

It will show that not all Japanese were evil, even though we portray them as such.

As a bonus mission, if you win, you get fly as a US bomber pilot as your crew drops napalm bombs on the dense Tokyo neighborhoods of wooden houses.

Perhaps there are some aspects of war that should be remembered, but not glorified in game. It's pretty well understood that any character you play in a game gets the hero concept applied to them by the player.
 
Dos anyone care to read the idea or do you just jump to 1 conclusion like we have done for over 60 years now?

Hitler, Höss, Himmler. Höss and Himmler where responsible for the making, creating and running of the deathcamps. Himmler where the one who orderd to open death camps like Treblinka, Belzec and Zobibor. Auswitch where never ment to be a death camp, and they killed over 1 mill humans in just 1 year, on the break of the end.

Whats my point? Thats the men who did it, who orderd it who we should be angry on. Like we should be angry on people like Mengele who waited for 1 of a pair of twins to die, just to kill the other and chek how the death of 1 of those goes on the other. Sick.

But whats the difference betveen 1 german rifle man killing 1 british rifle man and 1 british rifle man killing 1 german rifle man?

They are both humans, and they did not kill those that died in the consentration camps. We can judge all germans on the actions of 1, 2 or 3 of those. Who are we to judge others when we live in a different time and under different conditions?

I think its sad that everyone jumps to the conclusion and use the "they killed millions in consentration camps" and therefor conclude simply. Every german soldier where bastards.

How sad is that?

Did you know that the german troops where mostly men that had no choice but kill or be killed? They had to, simply. Either that, or risk that the SS killed theyr loved ones. And you still say you can judge every germans on the actions of a selected few.

Just to say one thing, im from Norway. We where under german controlle for 5 black years. My land, my people, where killed by this germans. But on the other hand, my people killed them as well. How can i judge and say that germans where bastards becaus they killed my people when my people did the same to them?

Sad, its realy sad, that people jumps to conclusions when it comes to germans. Im not trying to show that the germans where good guys, that the nazis are OK, but the different. I want this mod to show how the life of a german soldier was, when the soldier himself did not want to take actions in the war, but where forced becaus of a mothers love for Hitler and not her own son.

I want to make a war game, and show a different side of thinks. That it was hard for british soldiers and the US soldiers, but they wanted to do this, they wanted to go to the war. This german soldier didnt. And through the 5 years, i would show a story where he went from loving the german army, to asking question about the leadership and to finly understand what hes been doing.

Well, seems like this is something we never can make when people jumps to conclusions to fast and never want to see the WW2 from the side we have not seen at all.
 
like pur3r4ge said, this is a difficult topic to deal with. If you have no other message than to show the side of the war we don't often see, then perhaps it's not worth the effort of crafting a total conversion mod (which is a lot of work).
Besides, I'm really sick of world war 2 videogames.
 
I still think it's a great idea and that was quite a speech. I've never played a WW2 game in my life far as I recall so I'm not sick of them. Bring it on.
 
Don't even get me started. I could not play on a force that commited mass genocide.
 
M1CH43L said:
Don't even get me started. I could not play on a force that commited mass genocide.
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Do you only play sports and sims or what?
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I think very few people are understanding the concept here and if they were forced to fire upon a virtual American soldier they would break down and cry.

Give me a ****ing break. I'm sure if a Half-Life game put you in the pants of the Combine you'd jump at the chance to blast Freeman to hell and back...

There's no reason to have personal feelings about something that happened before you were even born.

Sure atrocities were committed by the Axis, by the Germans most notably, but I can't come to believe every German soldier thought it was right or believed in their superiors.

I'm sure none of you would think twice about dropping the atomic bomb on the Japanese.

"Oh they were evil. Remember Pearl Harbor." :rolleyes:

War is war, killing is killing, games are games.

Don't shoot down the man's dream here because of your personal beliefs.
 
bear^ said:
Dos anyone care to read the idea or do you just jump to 1 conclusion like we have done for over 60 years now?

Hitler, Höss, Himmler. Höss and Himmler where responsible for the making, creating and running of the deathcamps. Himmler where the one who orderd to open death camps like Treblinka, Belzec and Zobibor. Auswitch where never ment to be a death camp, and they killed over 1 mill humans in just 1 year, on the break of the end.

Whats my point? Thats the men who did it, who orderd it who we should be angry on. Like we should be angry on people like Mengele who waited for 1 of a pair of twins to die, just to kill the other and chek how the death of 1 of those goes on the other. Sick.

But whats the difference betveen 1 german rifle man killing 1 british rifle man and 1 british rifle man killing 1 german rifle man?

They are both humans, and they did not kill those that died in the consentration camps. We can judge all germans on the actions of 1, 2 or 3 of those. Who are we to judge others when we live in a different time and under different conditions?

I think its sad that everyone jumps to the conclusion and use the "they killed millions in consentration camps" and therefor conclude simply. Every german soldier where bastards.

How sad is that?

Did you know that the german troops where mostly men that had no choice but kill or be killed? They had to, simply. Either that, or risk that the SS killed theyr loved ones. And you still say you can judge every germans on the actions of a selected few.

Just to say one thing, im from Norway. We where under german controlle for 5 black years. My land, my people, where killed by this germans. But on the other hand, my people killed them as well. How can i judge and say that germans where bastards becaus they killed my people when my people did the same to them?

Sad, its realy sad, that people jumps to conclusions when it comes to germans. Im not trying to show that the germans where good guys, that the nazis are OK, but the different. I want this mod to show how the life of a german soldier was, when the soldier himself did not want to take actions in the war, but where forced becaus of a mothers love for Hitler and not her own son.

I want to make a war game, and show a different side of thinks. That it was hard for british soldiers and the US soldiers, but they wanted to do this, they wanted to go to the war. This german soldier didnt. And through the 5 years, i would show a story where he went from loving the german army, to asking question about the leadership and to finly understand what hes been doing.

Well, seems like this is something we never can make when people jumps to conclusions to fast and never want to see the WW2 from the side we have not seen at all.
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At first while I was reading this thread... I was ignorant to the idea... As I began to read more, I pictured a scenerie of the 16 year old "when the soldier himself did not want to take actions in the war, but where forced." You might be able to pull it off story wise. But like every other mod out there good luck creating it...
 
I love the idea, and I agree with the supporters of this topic.

Z_Ryuken is right, I'm sure not all soldiers would have followed their superiors and would have listened to hitler etc. I know someone from Germany, and she often states that lots of germans now hate what happened in the past.

So, wouldn't it be great to play a soldier, that really didn't approve of what was happening, but still fought anyway because he thought he had to survive the war, as well as being forced.

Its got a great chemical feeling. Its kinda like playing a solder with the ideals of what many german people think of the past, but in that exact time.

Besides. I would love to blow some americans with a shotgun. Not for the victory of the side I'm playing as a soldier, but as a human so I can survive the war and live.
 
Two words, people:

Genital Bees

The only way this premise could work is if the people playing it have never heard of World War II.
Otherwise, you are asking people to conveniently "forget" the holocaust for a significant portion of the story.

Strip away all the juvenile stuff about relative morality ("People kill stuff in wars? We are all evil!") and face the fact that you are assuming the player wants to volunteer to be forced to role-play a nazi -and enjoy it enough to keep playing- for the bulk of the plot.

I mean, seriously. The twist ending is that nazis are not to be emulated.
Holy cow, call up M. Night Shyamalan right away!
Why bother playing through the least enjoyable premise ever, when the entire plot's thematic moral can be summed up in one sentence?


Here's a superfun premise for a game that I think is even better:
You play a serial killer and the voices in your head say they'll murder your family unless you rape and kill innocent strangers. So you go around killing people in graphic ways and the entire thing is terrible and not at all fun.
To further emphasize how terrible the things you're volunteering to do are, the controls suck and the graphics are pre-DOOM. White noise is constantly pumped directly into your ears for the duration, to make it absolutely clear that you're only in it for the half-baked one-sentence moral at the end.
"Sometimes a police do bad things, so are they really any better than serial rapists who are just stuck with craziness?"
To make it extra great, the whole story can be based on real-life cases of child abuse.

I smell a GOTY!
 
I like the concept and have often thought about something like this myself.

Alot of German soldiers didn't know about the genocide going on back in Germany, Poland etc because they where so far away from it. And even if they did know about it not all of them agreed with it and most where infact scared of talking out about it incase themselves or their families where sent to the camps by the SS and Gestapo.
The propaganda machine wasn't only used against Germany's enemys, it was also used on its soldiers and civilians alike, they showed themselves to be a rightous cause etc etc etc and it did brainwash the nation as a whole for quite some time and made them blind to some certain issues. Though later on in the war things started changing for the majority of the population.

Anyway the idea is good, I'd volunteer to help map for you but I'm already working on another WW2 mod and I don't have the spare time to help you out.

Good luck anyway

Sly
 
Mechagodzilla said:
The only way this premise could work is if the people playing it have never heard of World War II.
Otherwise, you are asking people to conveniently "forget" the holocaust for a significant portion of the story.

Strip away all the juvenile stuff about relative morality ("People kill stuff in wars? We are all evil!") and face the fact that you are assuming the player wants to volunteer to be forced to role-play a nazi -and enjoy it enough to keep playing- for the bulk of the plot.
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These statements could not be more opinionated. While many people think it is wrong, very few really give a rat's ass about a main character's role in a game.

Sure you may not be fighting what is considered "the good fight".

But that is all we have been inundated with up to this point. Someone said earlier they are tired of WW2 games.
Well now here is the chance to put a completely different spin on the genre and introduce something fresh and original, possibly thought-provoking material and the only defense people can muster is "we hate Nazis so therefore this idea is stupid and noone can like it."
"Oh Nazis are the ultimate evil"
"Oh it's blasphemous noone would ever play as a Nazi"
"Oh I could never assume the control of a character who lived in a country where bad things happened"
"Oh I'm so bored of the same shit over and over"

:rolleyes:
I can see it now. People rejecting ideas of being a Nigerian resistance fighter, or a bloodthirsty Muslim, or a cannibal or something.
Fact is you've been worse. Legacy of Kain.
I know you've shot the hosties in CS, killed some scientists in HL, ran people over in Carmageddon, nuked the US troops in Command & Conquer, countless other pixelated atrocities. None of that mattered then. Why should it now? Because you might have to have a Swastika on your arm? Because you get so immersed in your gaming it's hard to tell whether you begin to beileve what you see and do? Is your mind so palpable it's convoluted and skewed by simple fiction?

If you find it difficult to play a role like this I see that as weakness of character. If you don't like it fine, don't like it. But for the rest of us that can enjoy a thing like this, bask in the humanity, feel the grip of emotion and power wrought through what might be a horrible event to witness, I say we are not wrong.
I say we are not condemned and forfeiting our beliefs.

Merely open-minded.
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I ask you, how hard is it to simply observe something with an open mind, free of prejudice?

Free your mind.

Free yourself.
 
patronising

adj : (used of behavior or attitude) characteristic of those who treat others with condescension [syn: arch, condescending, patronizing]. The above post.
 
You cant play on a team of German soldiers to see the war from a normal soldiers viewe becaus the SS killed millions of people in death camps.

Though you can play as a russian soldier, when you also knew that the russians where just as bad as the germans, though they did not kill groups, the russians killed everything that could pose a danger to theyr community.

You yell "OH NO, the Germans killed millions of people in death camps" but you dont say ANYTHING about all the death, raping, looting and killing the russians did through theyr campaine? You see the germans automatic as bad, every single one of them, and you simply refuse to see any other sides of this, on any other viewes.

Talking about beeing objective here, try to stand neutral, try to see it from a german soldiers eyes. Do you think they wanted to do what they did? Some might yes, but most of the did becaus they where fed with propaganda.

Sigh, i give up. If people would like this, fine. But when people are so closed in theyr head that they simply take 1 or 2 german "soldiers" like Mengele and Höss, then judge the whole german army on theyr actions, well, what can i say about that. Stupid.

In norway, people like Quisling and Rinnan went behind the backs of theyr own people to get something for themself. Power. Should we judge all of Norways people during the war on the actions of those 2?

Not at all.

Thats what im trying to get you to see, that even though the germans where bad, some of them, not all of them was bad.

We all learn the history of the second world war, but do we take a to great part of beeing sided with whats good and whats bad, we should not. We should see it from both sides, even though it was bad for those non german people, it was also bad for those that were germans.

How many died in Berlin during the final stage of the war. Many.

We should never forget, and that inncluded taking a look on "the other side", something that i want to do with this mod.

But hey, do what you want. But i would realy like to see someone justifying when they say that the germans where bad, but not inncluding the acionts of the russians, as we play them in both Call of Suty 1 and 2.

Whats good and whats bad, and who are we to judge?
 
No-one is stopping you from making a hamfisted nazi epic.

I am merely warning that you are throwing yourself into a shitpile without smelling it first.


_Z_Ryuken said:
While many people think it is wrong, very few really give a rat's ass about a main character's role in a game.
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Three cheers for lower standards?

What I explained is that, unlike a film (where this plot would work) the video-game medium requires audience participation.
Therefore, the viewer must be willing to fight towards an desirable objective, in exchange for fun.
Without an objective, a plotted videogame does not work.
This is a simple concept.

The supposedly desirable objective presented here is to follow "Mein Kampf".
So, at this point, the game immediately breaks down.
In order to want to play, the player must be either ignorant of Hitler's warcrimes or be ambivalent to them.

Otherwise, they're in it for the novelty, which is hardly the goal of a "thought-provoking" highbrow storyline.

Free your mind.

Free yourself.
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Free your head from your ass.

I simply said that most rational people won't find a nazi ideology simulator amusing.
Your tangental claptrap supports this theory.

It's easy enough to prove me wrong. Simply say:

"I, _Z_Ryuken, would gladly play a game featuring child rape."

If you don't, then your opinion is void.
 
Sigh

Not one understand the point here. Your not going in as a SS soldier into this game, nor one of the transporters. A soldier. In CoD you fight against germans, in this mod my thouth was to fight against british, US and russian armys.

Not once would you do what the SS soldiers did, becaus simply put, your not a SS soldier nor a SS recruite, your a soldier of the german army and your cannon food, someone they can spare, kill, without knowing who you are.

My idea is to get peoples eyes open and try to see things from a different view then the standard "germans are bastards" view, wich im sick of. Yes, they where bastards, some of them, but not all. I have never saied that you would follow "main kampf" as that would be as good a game as a movie of "Silmarillion" would be.

It would be like CoD. Just from another perspective.

How you and others automatic say that this would be a "nazi friendly" view, i cant understand. Im simply trying to show you another side of the war, that clearly few knew about, since they have been fed with a different kind of propaganda throughout the 60 years since the war was over. The simple propaganda that EVERY german soldier where bastards. And when we belive in sutch propaganda today, how dos that difference us from the propaganda the germans where fed with during the war? There are no difference other then we dont kill germans becaus we are afraide of them.

So im going to say this simply again.

This mod would show you the view of a german soldier in the war, fighting in the front lines. During the war, he will grow to understand the caus and effecnt, he will learn what happen with people like jews, and to go from loving NSDAP to hating them.

Did you know btw that the majority of the german soldiers learned about the death camps AFTER the war?
 
Mechagodzilla said:
The supposedly desirable objective presented here is to follow "Mein Kampf".
So, at this point, the game immediately breaks down.
In order to want to play, the player must be either ignorant of Hitler's warcrimes or be ambivalent to them.

Otherwise, they're in it for the novelty, which is hardly the goal of a "thought-provoking" highbrow storyline.

Free your head from your ass.

I simply said that most rational people won't find a nazi ideology simulator amusing.
Your tangental claptrap supports this theory.

It's easy enough to prove me wrong. Simply say:

"I, _Z_Ryuken, would gladly play a game featuring child rape."

If you don't, then your opinion is void.
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You are throwing around your own "interesting" concepts for this idea and acting as if this mod must be made by your laws of what makes a game.

This concept of desireable objective, maybe in your case would present itself as you are saying, but only for you and people like you.

I am not the one with my head in my ass because your own narrow mindedness is blinding you from simple possibility. This game isn't more than brainstormed concept and you are taking it upon yourself to outline the only possible outcome and I call bullshit.

Your posts are nothing more than fantasized dramatizing and propoganda. :rolleyes:
Rape has nothing to do with this game. Do I condone rape? No. Would I play a character ina game that would rape people? Well that depends entirely on it's presentation now doesn't it. If you want to get precise and say child rape and connotate every disgusting thing involved, than no I wouldn't take on that virtual role because the entire premise is sick an demented.
HOWEVER, pay attention to this point:---------> child rape is completely irrelevant to this discussion. You are pulling things out of your ass, attempting to skew everyone's objective to prove your point.

I don't see this game being any different than what is already out there.

The creator here is not suggesting you would be a guard at a concentration camp. He's not suggesting you would pilfer and rape townspeople. He is not suggesting you would take on the role of Hitler himself and his quest to conquer Europe.
What is being suggested is you take on the role of a person, A PURELY FICTITIOUS PERSON, and play in a scenario of war, and the entire point is to see this from a normally unseen viewpoint, something different to enrichen the average players gaming experience.

If you can't handle that then get your ****in blankey and suck on your thumb you damn cry baby. :LOL:
Some of us just want to play not get into ****ing politics over some guys mod. :rolleyes:

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Cliff note:

All he is trying to do is show that not all German fighters are the kind of asshole you are making them out to be.
 
Its worth pointing out that only about 1/3 of the German army were members of the Nazi party, and many of the people in the Nazi party didn't necessarily agree with Hitler. We must also bear in mind that Hitler was not only a master of propaganda, but also incredibly... shall we say, hypnotic. Do any research into the subject, and you'll find out that the fact that the Holocaust was allowed to happen was almost patriotic ferver. Secondly, virtually every country has some history of genocide, if not on the same scale as Nazi Germany. That said, Stalinist Russia killed almost 6 times as many Jews as Hitler did, and many WWII shooters feature Russian armies. In a history class I had once, we got to speak with an American Veteran of WWII, and he said, "We knew the average German wasn't our enemy", or something to that effect. I think a mod like this, if done tastefully, could definitely convey the emotional disaster that was WWII. And bear in mind: doesn't EVERY WWII online multiplayer allow you to play as Germans and shoot Allied soldiers? How is this any different?
 
If you'd like to make a story about how nazis were brainwashed patriotism, it would be better suited to a film or text presentation.
The reason is that although the character may be brainwashed, the player is not. So he'll have to play through the game doing things he doesn't want to do, for no good reason.

In a book, it would be much easier to present the nuanced of the human psyche that this premise requires in order to avoid being tasteless.
In a game, the nuance is lost, so you just have a "kill five americans" objective screen and a character who kinda turns sad later on.


Please ZRyu, if you are not going to understand what I say, be quiet.
I know that not all nazis were pure evil and I am not opposed to the premise and have stated very clearly that it could work as a film.
So, your entire rant about "freeing your mind" and "thinking outside the box and whatever is pointlessly condescending.
You've invented your own little straw man, this imaginary version of me, and are acting like quite a pompous jerk towards it.

Stop, then think. It's all I ask.

Here is a point-by-point summary of what you have failed to understand. Please tell me at which point you get confused so I can explain further.

Summary:
THE WORDS YOU ARE ABOUT TO READ EXPLAIN THAT THIS PREMISE WILL NOT WORK AS A GAME.

Why?

1) Because games involve interactivity.

Do you understand this point?

2) Interactivity in this case means that the player must follow Hitler's orders (thus simulating being "brainwashed").

Do you understand this point?

3) The vast majority of people are not brainwashed, and do not want to follow Hitler's orders any more than they would want to follow a rapist's orders. Thus, they will not play unless there is a really good incentive.

Do you understand this point?

4) There is no incentive, therefore the game will go unplayed.

Do you understand this point?

If you understand all four points, congratulations! You have stopped being stupid.

You will notice that the four points there have nothing to do with whatever the hell you just wrote several hundred words about.
 
Mechagodzilla said:
1) Because games involve interactivity.
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True.

Mechagodzilla said:
2) Interactivity in this case means that the player must follow Hitler's orders (thus simulating being "brainwashed").
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Speculation, vague at best.

Mechagodzilla said:
3) The vast majority of people are not brainwashed, and do not want to follow Hitler's orders any more than they would want to follow a rapist's orders. Thus, they will not play unless there is a really good incentive.
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Your arguement revolves around the player "following Hitler's orders".

My bet is you can go the entire length of a game without Hitler even being mentioned.

Incentive can be applied through more personal means and objectives of the protagonist.

Mechagodzilla said:
4) There is no incentive, therefore the game will go unplayed.
Click to expand...
Your point is rendered null due to pure specualtion.

There is nothing more to be said.
 
_Z_Ryuken said:
Your point is rendered null due to pure specualtion.
Click to expand...

I "specualated" that the nazi in WWII Germany works for Hitler.

The entire premise you have been defending is based on a soldier forced to fight for the third reich.

Uh duhhhhh.
 
Can i ask one question? Whats the thing people cant understand when i say "Your going to fight against soldiers not local towns people"

The first thing people conclude with when i say its from a germans point of view, is automatic thinking that you in this mod would kill jews, gypsies and siviliens.

YOUR NOT!!!!! Get it into your heads now.

Your a soldier, your fighting against other soldiers from US, Russia and Britan and your never killing sivilians. GET IT!

Im sick that you automatic thinking you would do what the minority of germans did, killing people in camps, when this mod is no difference from CoD.

Pleas, dont start with that ever again and stick to the topic of this thread.

I will only say this once more. Your playing as a soldier, see it from a soldiers view and there is a point, just as there is a point in CoD. Its just that in CoD your playing as "the good guys" and now your playing as a "bad buy" and for one reason, its wrong. But in games like GTA its OK to kill people on the street, drive over people and kill like you want. Problems? I think so.
 
I really don't think I want to play a "hero" who wasn't brave enough to say "I'm not going to fight and kill people for this"
 
so you want to play a hero who says im not going to fight and kill people for this and then gets shot by the officer. thatd be a really short game.
 
That's my point, crack. Most people would rather quit than roleplay a nazi killing british and american soldiers.

GTA is a parody that is meant to be over the top.
In multiplayer games, there is no intended message.

This mod is meant to be serious psychological dissection of the spread and downfall of Hitler's ideology.
Yet, at the same time, we're expecteded to have fun following that ideology for most of the game.
That's a mixed message if ever there was.

Your a soldier, your fighting against other soldiers from US, Russia and Britan and your never killing sivilians. GET IT!
Click to expand...
You're fighting to protect the people who are killing the civilians.

When you're doing something as controversial as this, you'd better have a genius script.
Seemingly, all you've got is "CoD but your a nazi".

It's kind of inevitable that this mod will fail, but I'd like to make it clear why it will.
I hate to see people waste time.
 
i think maybe if either theres no shooting. or your like a german solider who like turns his back on the germans. it would be alot better but could still express the ideas you have about the war.
 
You're fighting to protect the people who are killing the civilians.
Click to expand...

In CoD we fight to do the same as Russians and NOT ONE have commentet that. But now when we drag the germans into it, its the highlight of the problem.

You could say the same about Russians in CoD.

And its not going to be like CoD, it was a term used so people might understand what i was talking about.

My whole idea and point of this is to show people something. Not every german soldier where blood thirsty creeps that you would find at every spot around the place and killed everyone.

Im trying to make a mod where you would play as a soldier that wakes up after some years to see what the german war machine realy is about and what the germans realy did.

But it seems like minds have been made up here. People have been fed through 60 years of history that germans where bad, every single one of them, and thats not going to change. The russians where just as bad, but since they fought on the good side, no one care to see all the dark side about it. They are heros. Sigh.
 
I don't remember anyone calling Stalin "heroic".
He simply was not as bad as Hitler was, and russian soldiers did the overall good of defeating Nazi Germany.

CoD already did your idea well, by giving the soldiers fairly respectable goals despite being forced to work under an evil dictator.

In your idea, there are no admirable goals. You just do the whim of an evil dictator in the pursuit of Liebensraum and a master race.

If you can't see a difference there, then how can we expect the story to?
 
Newsflash: Stail is just as bad as Hitler, if you have read your history you would not even say anything to defend Stalin nor the russian army. And in CoD, as Russian, i would say you do just as bad a bidding following Stalin as you would in this mod following Hitler.

This mod would have a point, its just that people are locked to "your killing civilians" since a minority of the germans did.

In every war, there is a goal. To win. To lose is never a option. You battle to fight and win the war is as great from a germans view as it is from the other sides view. Still as strong. But you also will get goals to let say hunt down those trying to destroy the heavywater plant on Rjukan to drive with a messege to Romel (with british tanks and british soldiers all over the place).

But it seems like people have theyr heads locked on one side. Cant blame them, though i think its sad that they forget that a war always have loses on the other side as well.
 
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