About this intentional leak stuff.

S

shuurajou

Guest
It sounds stupid, but in some cases, it is a 'touch' suspicious. I'm not leaning towards any side here, just trying to lay out some things onto the table.

Half-Life 2, was pretty positively advertised for a September the 30th release, although I'm not sure if it was truely their intention to release it then or just an advertising campaign. When this date was announced, it was actually pretty close to September the 30th, and to me, if they actually intended to release it then, the game must have been pretty far into production and just into the final cleaning up stages.

The E3 demo looked pretty darn sexy to me, and very sleek. But, the Doom 3 E3 demo did back in it's day and people who had taken a peak at the leak, will know that the entire thing was kind of a chain of events that would only work if you went about them a certain way, so although it looked nice, wasn't anything that was ready to be released.

The first piece of news we heard was that the games source code was leaked, which was immediately gobbled up by most every big news site (including none gaming releated ones) in the world. Valve were extremely quick to admit that it had been stolen, but also extremely quick to say no beta was stolen, and evidently, it was actually stolen too. I find it hard to believe personally that Valve could not notice around 15 gigs of files being taken from their network (not just HL2 Source & Beta being stolen, but other Valve related products also). Then again, I don't know how much uploading Valve do on a daily basis, but I would of thought it would be a little suspicious.

Valve has got huge publicity from this, world wide publicity, more than they ever would have if this had not happened, at least in my opinion. The Beta that was leaked, was not worth the time to download, and I personally don't think that Valve has lost any kind of precious gemstone with that one, and I don't think it would have spoiled the game in the slightest, the E3 demo videos are better than the leaked thing.

The source code was leaked to, probably the most serious part of this whole leaking thing; from the best I can tell, it also leaves them open to being sued from the Havok phsyics engine team. Who knows if this is actually a real piece of proper source code (aside from the Valve team), or something somebody at Valve might have whipped up and let slip as to be used an excuse for the delay, and also for some mega-publicity. But, Havok would have to be in on this to, the one main reason I'd think that, is that they took down the Valve link from their partners section; although, I never looked at the havok site before these leaking accurences, I've heard multiple people say that Valve used to be there, and it makes sense seeing as I'd be a very proud phsyics company if Valve chose my engine to be used in the sequal to the biggest FPS the world has ever known. Anyway, back to what I was saying, if Havok wans't in on it then they wouldn't have removed the link, unless A: this source leak was real and not pre-made espeically for this 'leak' and they're mad at valve about it or B: It IS premade, and Havok are in on it too, let's face it, they're getting publicity too because it's supposedly 'their' source being leaked to.

I don't know if these source leaks are legitimate, and I don't think anybody can really say that unless they're actually made the source code themselfs. They could always be a snipit of some early code that's useless now, but looks pretty darn convincing and is a good escape goat for a nice reason for delaying the game for a very... very long time.

I don't like how Valve has been so quiet with information regarding this, I understand it might be confidential if they have the FBI involved, but it would be nice to know how things stand.

The best thing I can think of valve to do now, is to release a demo, even if it's only a little one, with decent code in it to tide over the people who are gagging for this game. It's not really fair, that the good folks of the Half Life 2 community get nothing, not even some news on what's going on, when the more naughty memebers of the community are playing away on some leaked beta/alpha (whatever you want to call it).

Just a few different things I've been pondering over. I'm not trying to slate Valve here in any way, these are just possibilitys in my mind :).
 
DEar sir, i pitty tThine For writing so much as i will not read this jumbo de la mumbo, eh HOW BOUT THOSE SENS?!?


MOD EDIT:
Dont make posts like this, it makes no sense and flames.
 
Come on now, doesn't take that long to read ^^;.

I guess the most important part would be this:

The source code was leaked to, probably the most serious part of this whole leaking thing; from the best I can tell, it also leaves them open to being sued from the Havok phsyics engine team. Who knows if this is actually a real piece of proper source code (aside from the Valve team), or something somebody at Valve might have whipped up and let slip as to be used an excuse for the delay, and also for some mega-publicity. But, Havok would have to be in on this to, the one main reason I'd think that, is that they took down the Valve link from their partners section; although, I never looked at the havok site before these leaking accurences, I've heard multiple people say that Valve used to be there, and it makes sense seeing as I'd be a very proud phsyics company if Valve chose my engine to be used in the sequal to the biggest FPS the world has ever known. Anyway, back to what I was saying, if Havok wans't in on it then they wouldn't have removed the link, unless A: this source leak was real and not pre-made espeically for this 'leak' and they're mad at valve about it or B: It IS premade, and Havok are in on it too, let's face it, they're getting publicity too because it's supposedly 'their' source being leaked to.

I don't know if these source leaks are legitimate, and I don't think anybody can really say that unless they're actually made the source code themselfs. They could always be a snipit of some early code that's useless now, but looks pretty darn convincing and is a good escape goat for a nice reason for delaying the game for a very... very long time.
 
Originally posted by poseyjmac
could someone give me a brief synopsis?
Click to expand...

"babble babble conspiracy conspiracy scapegoat this, scapegoat that"

thats about it.
 
Bleh, sorry, I was just trying to make a relatively decent post, I'm kinda a new to the forum, didn't know people didn't like reading in depth things (or at least I tried to make it in depth and have some kind of reasoning behind everything I mentioned).

I apoligise.
 
Originally posted by shuurajou
Come on now, doesn't take that long to read ^^;.

I guess the most important part would be this:

The source code was leaked to, probably the most serious part of this whole leaking thing; from the best I can tell, it also leaves them open to being sued from the Havok phsyics engine team. Who knows if this is actually a real piece of proper source code (aside from the Valve team), or something somebody at Valve might have whipped up and let slip as to be used an excuse for the delay, and also for some mega-publicity. But, Havok would have to be in on this to, the one main reason I'd think that, is that they took down the Valve link from their partners section; although, I never looked at the havok site before these leaking accurences, I've heard multiple people say that Valve used to be there, and it makes sense seeing as I'd be a very proud phsyics company if Valve chose my engine to be used in the sequal to the biggest FPS the world has ever known. Anyway, back to what I was saying, if Havok wans't in on it then they wouldn't have removed the link, unless A: this source leak was real and not pre-made espeically for this 'leak' and they're mad at valve about it or B: It IS premade, and Havok are in on it too, let's face it, they're getting publicity too because it's supposedly 'their' source being leaked to.

I don't know if these source leaks are legitimate, and I don't think anybody can really say that unless they're actually made the source code themselfs. They could always be a snipit of some early code that's useless now, but looks pretty darn convincing and is a good escape goat for a nice reason for delaying the game for a very... very long time.
Click to expand...

do you not understand how much source was leaked? millions upon millions of lines of code, this isnt something you just whip up one day to play a prank on the entire world, AYFR? valve isnt going to waste their resources (time, money, expertise) just to validate the game delay, that's ****ing insane, i really want to properly respond to your whole post but seriously, i cant even finish reading it without laughing at you.
 
Do you really think Valve needed to pull a stunt like that to gain popularity? Not to mention the fact that the actual source code that has been stolen which contains licenced software and code from a third party company could get them into a lot of trouble.

It just doesn't make any sense for Valve to go and do something like that. They don't need to.

I don't blame Valve for keeping quiet. They must feel very shitty at the moment, they missed their release, they've had their work stolen, they're sorting out the distribution of CS:CZ, they're analyzing the damage caused by the hacker. They must seriously need to assess whether the fact they've been hacked has compromised Steam and VAC or not. They have a lot to do, and if they still want to aim for a holiday 2003 release; little time to do it.

Give the guys some slack.
 
Originally posted by Xtasy0
valve isnt going to waste their resources (time, money, expertise) just to validate the game delay, that's ****ing insane, i really want to properly respond to your whole post but seriously, i cant even finish reading it without laughing at you.
Click to expand...

Do you EVER say anything nice?

A paragraph on the "situation at hand" would take how much time, money and expertise?

I mean as "open" as they were at first. I dont think we are asking for a Q&A just a few words on the status and REAL expected time frame that the game may be ready.
 
Originally posted by Xtasy0
do you not understand how much source was leaked? millions upon millions of lines of code, this isnt something you just whip up one day to play a prank on the entire world, AYFR? valve isnt going to waste their resources (time, money, expertise) just to validate the game delay, that's ****ing insane, i really want to properly respond to your whole post but seriously, i cant even finish reading it without laughing at you.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean to write this post in an offensive manner at all, it was just some things I had been thinking about when trying to look at the big picture in all of this. I didn't know how much code had been leaked, and I know nothing of C++ to be able to judge if it's something that would be proper coding or coding which is now obselete. I personally believe that quite a few gaming companys are guilty of delaying games just to get the publicity so when they do launch their game, it's going to be bigger news. I'm not saying Valve have done this or not, but it's just another thing to think about. I know people like to think of Valve as a company with Halo's above their hands, and personally I like to think of them in that way too, they've always seemed to be very good with the community.
 
Originally posted by Chris_D

I don't blame Valve for keeping quiet. They must feel very shitty at the moment, they missed their release, they've had their work stolen, they're sorting out the distribution of CS:CZ, they're analyzing the damage caused by the hacker. They must seriously need to assess whether the fact they've been hacked has compromised Steam and VAC or not. They have a lot to do, and if they still want to aim for a holiday 2003 release; little time to do it.
Click to expand...

But to lift their spirits come out tell the hackers to kiss their ass (in so many words) and to let us know whats going on would garner more support and empathy from us. Again this is my opinion.
 
Maybe until they get their network secure again they're locking it out from all contact with the outside world and operating their local intranet only
 
Originally posted by Chris_D
Do you really think Valve needed to pull a stunt like that to gain popularity? Not to mention the fact that the actual source code that has been stolen which contains licenced software and code from a third party company could get them into a lot of trouble.

It just doesn't make any sense for Valve to go and do something like that. They don't need to.

I don't blame Valve for keeping quiet. They must feel very shitty at the moment, they missed their release, they've had their work stolen, they're sorting out the distribution of CS:CZ, they're analyzing the damage caused by the hacker. They must seriously need to assess whether the fact they've been hacked has compromised Steam and VAC or not. They have a lot to do, and if they still want to aim for a holiday 2003 release; little time to do it.

Give the guys some slack.
Click to expand...

No, true, they don't need to, but world wide news broadcasts are pretty nice. I don't know what Havok plan to do, or if they're going to do anything. I wonder because of them taking down the link (if it was there in the first place) that they are taking some kind of legal action. I don't blame Valve for keeping quiet either, but I think it's crap that the more naughty members of the community are getting more than the good members.
 
Originally posted by Aknot
Do you EVER say anything nice?

A paragraph on the "situation at hand" would take how much time, money and expertise?

I mean as "open" as they were at first. I dont think we are asking for a Q&A just a few words on the status and REAL expected time frame that the game may be ready.
Click to expand...

you misread my quote, most likely on purpose, that seems to be what you do best.

the wasting of resources i was refering to was making fake source code to release in order to have a reason to delay the game. as i said it was millions upon millions lines of code, its not something to just slap together one day.


BTW gabe did post and explain what the situation was, the source code was stolen, they're looking for the person that did it and they're continuing on with developing the game to get it out as soon as possible, what else would you like them to say?
 
Originally posted by Chris_D
Maybe until they get their network secure again they're locking it out from all contact with the outside world and operating their local intranet only
Click to expand...

I'm sure this doesn't restrict them from going home and using the internet, or using a phone, or going to an internet cafe, or whatever... you catch my drift :).
 
Originally posted by Xtasy0
you misread my quote, most likely on purpose, that seems to be what you do best.

the wasting of resources i was refering to was making fake source code to release in order to have a reason to delay the game. as i said it was millions upon millions lines of code, its not something to just slap together one day.
Click to expand...

But, what I was getting at is, maybe the code that was leaked means nothing to Valve, but nobody else knows better now do they? Could be some old obselete code which was from a version which never ended up being used ala the many duke nukem forver versions :p.
 
I really tried hard to write what I posted in an open ended calm manner, I didn't try and make assumptions, or make it argumentative, or any of the sort, was just different possibilitys, I didn't mean one thing was one way or another. I wanted this to be civil hehe ^^;.
 
It's disappeared since Havok redesigned their page.
 
Originally posted by Xtasy0
you misread my quote, most likely on purpose, that seems to be what you do best.

the wasting of resources i was refering to was making fake source code to release in order to have a reason to delay the game. as i said it was millions upon millions lines of code, its not something to just slap together one day.


BTW gabe did post and explain what the situation was, the source code was stolen, they're looking for the person that did it and they're continuing on with developing the game to get it out as soon as possible, what else would you like them to say?
Click to expand...

No I read everything. Its just happens (I guess) that everytime I read a post of yours there are curse words and (it seems) you are jumping on someone. Thats all.
 
Originally posted by Chris_D
It's disappeared since Havok redesigned their page.
Click to expand...

Something I didn't know. As I said before I had never looked at Havok's page before this happened, and just heard that they had removed Valves link as of word of mouth. My apologies for talking about it, I didn't know that they had dissapeared since the redesign, I was only going by what I had heard.

Thanks for correcting me.
 
No need to apologise!
No problem.
 
Originally posted by Xtasy0
BTW gabe did post and explain what the situation was, the source code was stolen, they're looking for the person that did it and they're continuing on with developing the game to get it out as soon as possible, what else would you like them to say?
Click to expand...

Well, I know that, but I was looking for an update after that news. I mean, there's alot of questions and wonders and things that I'm sure they could address some of them. Would just be nice for them to reward the community who've been so supportive to them, instead of the people who have been downloading the leak seemed to be rewarded moreso. I know it's not really a reward, but it's more than what the people who are respecting valves wishes are getting.
 
Originally posted by Aknot
No I read everything. Its just happens (I guess) that everytime I read a post of yours there are curse words and (it seems) you are jumping on someone. Thats all.
Click to expand...

oh, so the curses make you ****ing go insane and take quotes out of context and reply to them in a totally different way than the ****ing poster intended them??

it all makes perfect ****ing sense.
 
Originally posted by Xtasy0
oh, so the curses make you ****ing go insane and take quotes out of context and reply to them in a totally different way than the ****ing poster intended them??

it all makes perfect ****ing sense.
Click to expand...
No. Lets see. The original poster asked a question/made some statements.
You responded with:
"valve isnt going to waste their resources (time, money, expertise) just to validate the game delay, that's ****ing insane, i really want to properly respond to your whole post but seriously, i cant even finish reading it without laughing at you."

I responded with:
"Do you EVER say anything nice?
A paragraph on the "situation at hand" would take how much time, money and expertise?
I mean as "open" as they were at first. I dont think we are asking for a Q&A just a few words on the status and REAL expected time frame that the game may be ready."

So where did I take quotes out of context?
 
I'm more than happy to be corrected or presented with evidence than some of the things I have have misquoted out of being uneducated on that subject.

Hey, if Valve gave us a little more info and cleared up some things there wouldn't be a need for uneducated posts now would there? ^^.

Although I know it's not Valves responsibility to do this, it would just be real nice :).
 
Originally posted by Aknot
No. Lets see. The original poster asked a question/made some statements.
You responded with:
"valve isnt going to waste their resources (time, money, expertise) just to validate the game delay, that's ****ing insane, i really want to properly respond to your whole post but seriously, i cant even finish reading it without laughing at you."

I responded with:
"Do you EVER say anything nice?
A paragraph on the "situation at hand" would take how much time, money and expertise?
I mean as "open" as they were at first. I dont think we are asking for a Q&A just a few words on the status and REAL expected time frame that the game may be ready."

So where did I take quotes out of context?
Click to expand...

"a paragraph on the situation at hand would take how much time, money and expertise?" thats a direct response to my "valve won't waste the time money and expertise" comment, except when i said it i wasnt refering to them making a comment because it was a waste, i was saying making fake source code was a waste of their time resources and expertise.

so either to totally misread my reply or you jacked my wording because it sounded nice, *shrug*
 
ahhh sorry I read it as them giving us a "word" would be to much time etc. Not giving us a fake source code. I apologize, for that part.
 
I can understand VALVe's secrecy...but I would like a statement. Then again, this could be part of their "new" strategy. This is one of the reasons I think it may actually be released, this year...because this silent treatment won't fly with the community much longer. I don't mind waiting a few weeks longer, but the community is gradually degrading. I support VALVe fully, but I can think of better things to do with free time, than wait for news on a game. (Albeit the greatest game ever, none-the-less, a game.). If the end of the month rolls around, with no word, I may become neutral - Basically leaving the Hl2 scene until I see it in a Pre-Sale ad, or decide to check up. I think a lot of people will do this, too. Sorry VALVe, I really am...but I don't think I'll be changing anything by posting messages, and scanning Gaming Sites.

Until Nov 1st, and when I return: Keep up the good work, guys! Go VALVe! Woot, and so forth!

-Ghost.
 
Originally posted by shuurajou
I'm more than happy to be corrected or presented with evidence...
Click to expand...
But see, the burden of proof lies on you as you're the one proposing this "intentional leak" theory. Sorry, but you can't just throw a wild allegation out there and say, "That's the truth until somebody disproves it!" You said it, you provide the proof that what you're saying has merit. So far, all you have is uninformed speculation, so you have to understand that folks won't take you seriously.
 
Originally posted by Mountain Man
So far, all you have is uninformed speculation, so you have to understand that folks won't take you seriously.
Click to expand...

See thats where the problem lays here. Why cant people (especially here in these forums) take an idea and run with it without being shot down, berated and not taken seriously. A forum is a place for ideas. Both factual and speculative. Now if he had posted and said I KNOW Valve did this and I KNOW they did that, then jumping on him asking for proof and the such would be nothing short of mandatory. But there is nothing wrong with saying what if or asking questions/making statement that make you go hmmmmmmm.

Not "attacking" you MM. Just using your statement as my springboard.
 
i gotta agree with aknot here.. without any statements from valve and the e3 videos already analyzed up the !@#$ as well as the prohibition of the "beta", people have to talk about SOMETHING!
 
to #1

I read a rumor that the sorce is real and up to date, but the content (models,maps) are from a leaked E3 beta that would stop working after a few days (self destruct function or something)

It would explain why the "beta" isn't complete
 
Originally posted by Aknot
Why cant people (especially here in these forums) take an idea and run with it...
Click to expand...
People are not likely to run with an idea they feel lacks merit. There's really no point.
 
Originally posted by Mountain Man
People are not likely to run with an idea they feel lacks merit. There's really no point.
Click to expand...
But that is what MAKES it an idea. An Idea and or thought needs no merit. If that were the case we as a "people" would be in a sad state.
 
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