Advice For Me and My son.

O

OddOne

Guest
Need Advice.......
I am a long time gamer...
Im 34 yrs old and been playing games for a Long time.
Have played around with some map tools (worldcraft,Ut,Rainbow6)

I have a 13 yr old son that is in some gifted programs and is really bright.
Of course he is into games alot.And is really artistically talented.

I really think that he would injoy working with modelling.

What are the best tools for 3d modelling and map design.

I have HalfLife2 ofcourse and I will playing with Hammer to work on some maps (just for fun)
I would like him to be able to make some models that we can use
so he can see what he might like to do as a carrer.




Thanks for your time and input.

OddOne
 
Blender is a free program that does modelling, texturing, uvmapping, rendering, animation etc. www.blender3d.org is a good site, you can download it there and also see some video tutorials (strongly suggest watching them if giving the program a go). www.elysiun.com is where most of the community go, you can see works in progress, finished projects, get plugins and get help (best to use search function first :) ).

Most commercial programs are pretty expensive (go up to several thousand dollars), you can get free 'trial' versions that are good for learning on, and can sometimes actually be used to port stuff into a game (eg. XSI EXP which can be used for Half-Life 2). But they are limited in that you can't make money off what you create in it and there is often a watermark in the renders.
As a complete (and FREE) package I highly recommend Blender (I use it :D ) but there are other free programs about, Wings3D is one, but is only really for modelling (and I hear is very good for that).
 
Thank very much for the reply..

I was just thinking about blender befor i checked the post :)

I am a linux user and I like the Idea of being able to set up a box with linux/blender and some other apps on it.

I will check out the site that you posted.

Can models that were created in blender be imported for Hl2?

Thanks for your time.
 
I'd recommend learning on one of the big three, Maya, 3D Studio, or XSI. They all have free version of them, XSI and Maya have the ability to render things out, but both have a watermark. XSI's watermark is not as intense as Maya's.

XSI exp exports to HL2 though there are some limits on that:
http://www.softimage.com/Products/EXP/HL2/

Unless you get an older version of software off of Ebay, XSI is also the cheapest for a commercial version, $495 for the base version.

the free version of Maya outputs to the more recent UT games:
http://www.alias.com/eng/products-services/maya/maya_ple/index.shtml

And finally 3DS has a free version designed for games called gmax, it has a couple of games it outputs too but nothing really recent:
http://www4.discreet.com/gmax/

You could probably ask 5 different people and get at least as many different answers as to which program is the best. I suggest you pick one and learn it learning another program is much simpler then. A word of warning 3D modeling is almost as much about technical skill as it is artistic ability so be prepared for a little mental gymnastics.

Now as far as learning the programs, the question becomes how do you learn best ? Personally I learn best in a classroom setting, any number of community colleges will offer short courses in 3D programs, and there are many speciality schools as well. A common way others learn is to use a series of video tutorials, a good resource for them is at 3dbuzz.com (http://www.3dbuzz.com/). Most of the applications themselves have tutorials in written form, but I've heard from others that they often focus on people who already have experience in 3D. So you might want to check out a book on your particular program of choice. Another resource I've found extremely helpful in learning 3D modeling is having a friend I can send questions to, I learned 3DS mostly from talking with a friend in an online chat room.

Of course this forum is always open to you to post questions and get answers. Good luck and have fun, and don't forget that a lot of advice is very subjective.
 
Thanks,
I was looking at XSI.

I think I will try this out too.

I am looking for something for Him/me to use.

He is 13 and shows alot of inserest in Art/computer games.

He has always had a talent for drawing and thought I would give him the tools to branch his creativity into the 3D computer world.

The list of programs I am seeing is great.!!!!!

It gives me some different things to look at and for him to try.


Thanks.
 
Now that's how a dad is supposed to be :) Maya, XSI, MAX, Milkshape, Truespace, Blender, Modo, Lightwave, Wings... Do a search on these. If you can't find info on them, let me know :)
 
xsi exp for hl2, no DOUBT about it, unless u r willing to buy xsi 4. u can use it on linux also (well, u can with xsi exp 3). i have been using xsi for a few months, and i have used 3dsmax for 3 years almost, maya for 1 and i can say i like xsi the most, though i havent had a change to mess around with the animation tools, which seem less intuitive then max and less powerful and simple then maya.

xsi is very powerful, but the big problem is most people coming from other apps are too confused or afraid of change so they just put it off and say it sucks, but once u get used to it its very fast and clean. Keyboard shortcuts are the big thing in xsi, so it helps that u learn most of them, or create your own custom layout. I'd also recommend 3dsmax 5.1 or greater, but dont get gmax (the free "Game" version of max, which hasn't been updated in years). You can get a student xsi 4 advance (which is the latest and greatest by softimage) for 300 or xsi 4 foundations for 500 dollars or like i said, the free version.

if he dosent like xsi, i would recommend 3dsmax but note that xsi exp for hl2 is much more powerful then the free version gmax, and can acctualy export to hl2 with it. max is a one of the easiest to learn (but note that no 3d app is easy to learn). Animation tools arent the greatest, but the poly tools are very good and simple. A lot of modders use this. Note that you will have to purchase it or get a student version if you wish to keep it "legal"

lastly, maya is the other alternative. The most powerful animation packcage out there. Its interface is pretty simple, but its not as intuitive as other apps. The real power behind it lies in mel (an embeded programming language) which u can use to create custom everything. I like certain features like custom markup menus and the hotbox but alias is really being lazy with updates. Not much hasnt changed since v4 and its now at v6, and a lot can be done to improve it. A very powerful app if the user knows mel.

the choice is yours. valve used xsi for good reasons, and its a very powerful and balanced app, and it is my recommendation. Max is very easy to use, the retail version will have a hl2 export plugin. Maya is very powerful but bit harder to master, also the retail versoin will have a hl2 export plugin.

Also, if your son chooses to do this for a living, i recommend he also gets into texturing. Most modders go in one path, but if you ever want to get a job, knowing both modeling and texturing is usualy a requirement. also ,the student version of xsi 4 has a lot of free learning dvd, and the xsi production dvd set which will practicaly teach you xsi, but your son has to be in public highschool (gr. 9 - 12) to be considered a student.
 
For those who have used both and know how to model, Is SoftImage XSI easier to use then 3ds max 6?
 
i prefer xsi over max, keep in mind that using the keyboard will make working a lot faster then max. Almost everything is bound to keyboard.

http://fish.zalsoft.com/mdl/head.jpg (if you choose to critique this, the eyes arent done, in fact, they arent even modeled yet)

doesnt maya mentor cost money? well, the membership costs money and i think u need silver to download the tutorials?
 
No you only have to have the bronze memebrship which is free.
But common dude that is obviouse, maya mentor is a program for learning and they want you to learn maya so you don't use xsi or max, and they want it to make it for you easier than for other programs to learn maya so yo utry maya first, so it beeing free is quite logical.
 
I think my friend best described the difference between Max and XSI/Maya as a large crayon compared to a pen.

I'm learning XSI this holidays; decided to shift my entire study from max to maya and XSI (XSI particularly, as I'm looking forward to HL2 modelling ^^). So far I'm liking the XSI GUI over all other proggies I've tried, as everything is right at your fingertips all the time and it looks to be the most powerful 3D package.
I suggest XSI; its free (EXP) and can be put into practice immediately via HL2 if you're doing game modelling. Its also alot better to have experience with industry-recognised applications; ie. XSI, Max, Maya, Cinema 4D > Blender and wings.
 
I just wanted to say, this post really helped me out in figuring out what to actually use to get started on modeling. I've wanted to do this for a while, and I know where to start now. :D
 
Psychx said:
I just wanted to say, this post really helped me out in figuring out what to actually use to get started on modeling. I've wanted to do this for a while, and I know where to start now. :D
Click to expand...

Just make sure you come back here to show us your progress ;)
 
Thank you all SO much for your input.

I talked to my son and he is interested in the programs that I have got so far.

I also got a cory of 3DS max from my brother-in-law.
He got it from his teacher at the College where he is taking night classes.

What is really cool is that the other day my daughter ( she's 9 )
was playing a game on the xbox that she already had played the same game on the game cube.
I asked her if it looked any different on the xbox and she said.

"Yes I think that this game seems to have better textures than the gamecube. It looks more clear and sharper"

Wow !!! I guess she gets that from her dad.

I showed her on 'Hammer' how the maps all start off from wire frame and then are textured,and she thougt that was really cool.


I will be setting up a computer next to the one they use in the living room for internet with the modeling/mapping software on it so they can use it.

Thanks again for all the help and advice.


Jim
 
I think it's fantastic they want to learn at such a young age, and also have grasped the concept of texturing. When I was young whipper snapper I was still trying to smash a cube block into a cylinder space. Heck, I'm still (so far unsuccessfully) trying to get my head around modelling and I'm about twice their age.. I've so far modelled an (awful) space craft engine, I haven't touched it since. I'd love to do stuff like on www.scifi-meshes.com

I'll be looking out for releases from the OddOne family :D
 
What was funny about the game when she said that was, she proceeded to point to the machine and the rock walls that where in the level she was on.
I was surprised at the detail that she had seen.

We are all interested in games and I really think that if you can give the kids and young adults something that keeps there interest inside the house and in a safe environment it will help them know that We are interested in them.
And if they don’t have things in the house it’s just that much greater of a chance they will have OTHER things out side the house to keep there interest, and those things I may not want them to do. ;(

Our public school system is not set up in most states to help a lot of kids in the way that we can at home.
They just don’t have the funding.

I may just set up a pc running Linux with blender on it and just donate it to the middle school where my son attends.
I think his computer class would really enjoy using it, but no one there would have a clue how to use Linux. LOL.
:LOL:
 
linux is pretty complex. The command line environment is pretty powerful but hard to get used to. I'm gonna reinstall it once i get a new nvidia vid card (radeon drivers r horrible on linux)

so u gonna use blender and max? keep in mind blender cannot export into hl2 so you will have to find another program that can.
I plan to create a bunch of xsi vid tutorials of creating a model, from start to uv maps (maybe export it to hl2) that explains the interface, modeling tools and quick shortcuts that i learned for anyone that wants to start modeling in xsi.
 
At the moment there aren't exporters from Blender to HL2, but I'm pretty sure that there will be one in the near future (Doom 3 one was written quite awhile ago now, HL2 is bigger so here's hoping). Though Blender can export to .obj files etc. so as long as that can be used to get a model in HL2 all should be fine.

PS. My advice to new modellers is to get very familiar with the basic UI and workflow of the program first, so when you try to do something you aren't continuously trying to remember what to press. That just breaks up your workflow too much. Also don't get ahead of yourself, work on one area (eg. modelling) and do that so you are comfortable with it, push yourself so you are modelling something complex, but focus on small areas and only move on when you are satisfied. Many great models are actually just a bunch of fairly simple objects.
One you are comfortable with modelling, focus on the next area (eg. uv mapping). Trying to learn a few different areas at once (modelling, textuing, lighting etc.) at once can get a bit too much.
 
I think that XSI will be something that I want to have the Kids and I learn to use.
It seems that it has a wide market value as far as future usage.
Blender is something that I could use in Linux and would be nice to be able to use too.
I like the idea of learning more than one program for something.

I have been using Linux for about 2 1/2 years.
I started using Linux because I felt I needed a challange after using Windows for so long.
The command line can be a pain at first but is really a great way do get things done really fast and also in Windows if you know how.
 
Ive been wanting to start modelling too : /

good list there =D
 
I'm all in favour of getting kids creative but it does spoil the "magic" of playing these games when you know how it all works. If you know what I mean.
 
I disagree BigDaz, I think it provides even more enjoyment in that you can say "Wow! So THAT's how they did it!" :D

BTW OddOne, I think "keeping the kids home" is a great idea, my younger brother just had some run-ins with my parents about drugs and the whole adolescent experimental stages, (I was at college at the time,) so I'm trying to keep him in playing Counter-Strike and other games, so far it's working, :D
 
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