Advisors

[Absinthe]

While there is no absolutely conclusive evidence that the advisors are the original Combine master race, we can be reasonably certain that they are. They were the hidden face of the Combine throughout Half-Life 2. Their physical state and mental powers make make every indication that they are in a leading position with no evidence suggesting anything higher up. It also makes them more interesting as villains, so much so that I can't really see where Valve would go beyond them in trying to draft up a big baddy.

While the advisors are probably not in a position to call all the top shots, you can safely bet that their species is nestled at the throne, with all their assimilated forces carrying out their bidding.

Also want to point out that just because the Combine may end with the Advisor species, that doesn't mean there's no room for new enemies. In Half-Life 1 we topped out the Xen hierarchy with Nihilanth. We didn't move further up the ladder to the Universal Union - we switched to them. A "bigger plan" doesn't require us to endlessly fight up the Combine food chain. Once they've been effectively thwarted, I'm sure there will be another foe on the horizon. Probably one that the Combine have ties to, much the same way the Xenians had a relationship with them. My guess is that whatever we encounter will involve a more direct dealing with G-Man's employers.

 

[Eejit]

I'm not saying that the Advisors aren't the current leaders of the Combine - they almost certainly are, from both what we know and the perspective of "good writing" - but it's a whole different thing to claim that this means they definitely founded the Empire.

 

[blackout]

to go back to basics, what is your reason and evidance for thinking they aren't the origional combine?

 

[Absinthe]

I'm not saying that the Advisors aren't the current leaders of the Combine - they almost certainly are, from both what we know and the perspective of "good writing" - but it's a whole different thing to claim that this means they definitely founded the Empire.

Their physical evolution fits well with the idea. At the same time, I see no competing evidence that there was any Combine empire before them.

It's a blank that Laidlaw hasn't concretely filled, but I question if it even needs to be at this point.

 

[Eejit]

to go back to basics, what is your reason and evidance for thinking they aren't the origional combine?

You would fail at science.

Their physical evolution fits well with the idea. At the same time, I see no competing evidence that there was any Combine empire before them.

It's a blank that Laidlaw hasn't concretely filled, but I question if it even needs to be at this point.

Yes, it's probably academic.

 

[Laivasse]

The bit in the Backman quote about the Advisors' "ability to reason, invent, and dominate the minds and cultures of others" seems as if it was an attempt to explain how the Combine empire came about. Not conclusive but heavily suggestive. You could speculate that it was something different beforehand and that it only became an empire which dominated the minds and cultures of others under the reign of the Advisors, but there's nothing that currently points to that.

Also want to point out that just because the Combine may end with the Advisor species, that doesn't mean there's no room for new enemies. In Half-Life 1 we topped out the Xen hierarchy with Nihilanth. We didn't move further up the ladder to the Universal Union - we switched to them. A "bigger plan" doesn't require us to endlessly fight up the Combine food chain. Once they've been effectively thwarted, I'm sure there will be another foe on the horizon. Probably one that the Combine have ties to, much the same way the Xenians had a relationship with them. My guess is that whatever we encounter will involve a more direct dealing with G-Man's employers.

^Also this.

 

[blackout]

You would fail at science.

1stly- that dosent awnser my question,
2ndly- ive passed every science exam or test ive taken,
3rdly- what makes you think that at all?

 

[Eejit]

1stly- that dosent awnser my question,
2ndly- ive passed every science exam or test ive taken,
3rdly- what makes you think that at all?

You don't need a reason to doubt something, that should be the default state of mind.

Even if you've passed your science tests at school that doesn't mean you'd be good at practicing science, as a critical way of thinking is essential.

 

[Catalyst]

You don't need a reason to doubt something, that should be the default state of mind.

Not really. Based on what we know, the Adivsors are the original combine, if you have evidence to the contrary, present it.

To simply doubt something without any reason, is not really rational.

 

[Eejit]

Not really. Based on what we know, the Adivsors are the original combine, if you have evidence to the contrary, present it.

To simply doubt something without any reason, is not really rational.

To believe something without firm evidence, is not really rational.

 

[Catalyst]

To believe something without firm evidence, is not really rational.

I believe in something based on the information i have, not on some hope or "doubt". Again, based on the evidence we have right now, the Adivsors are the combine. It is your responsibility to provide evidence to the contrary.

 

[Eejit]

I believe in something based on the information i have, not on some hope or "doubt". Again, based on the evidence we have right now, the Adivsors are the combine. It is your responsibility to provide evidence to the contrary.

I'm saying that the Advisors are definitely not the founders - I'm pointing out that we don't know that for sure and it's an assumption.

If you can't provide some real evidence that they definitely are the original combine then you're working on a leaf of faith rather than reasoning.

 

[blackout]

Not really. Based on what we know, the Adivsors are the original combine, if you have evidence to the contrary, present it.

To simply doubt something without any reason, is not really rational.

second, I mean we've got a reason(s) for thinking they are the origional combine, and most arguments are based on evidance rather than just thinking things for the sake of it.

 

[Eejit]

You're the ones leaping to conclusions. I'm the one pointing out the missing step in your reasoning...

 

[Absinthe]

In any other case, you'd be right, Eejit.

But we have to frame this whole discussion within the narrative of the game. Practically, there could be endless possibilities as to how the Combine formed and who were the original or master species. But we're working within the restraints of the information Valve has presented to us or at least heavily hinted at. Given that the Advisors are a species that has been deliberately built up to and that they have been portrayed as the source of antagonism in the HL2 series, there is every reason to believe they are the dominant and original species behind the Universal Union. As such, I can't help but feel that any latent twist in revealing the "true" enemy would be an unnecessary curveball that doesn't contribute much of interest to the mythology or the storytelling.

We only peeked at them in HL2 and Ep1. We finally got to see them in action in Ep2 and we can assume we'll be having a more direct confrontation with them in Ep3. It's been a gradual ascension to this point, and to suddenly pull back a curtain and say "HAHA! FOOLED YOU! Here's another bad guy!" just seems to me kinda... ass. The Advisors killed Eli. Capping the trilogy off with anything other than them poses the risk of me not really caring.

 

[Eejit]

Everyone seems to be treating "dominant" and "original" as the same thing. That is the assumption I'm against.

 

[Absinthe]

I think they are both. Besides, the whole motif of biology enhanced with advanced technology that permeates the whole Combine armada seems to stem from - and is crystalized by - the Advisors.

Unless there's, like, a Combine Amoeba with mechanical antennaes at the top. I dunno.

 

[Eejit]

As long as you're aware that there's no evidence for that, fine.

 

[Absinthe]

No concrete evidence. But heavily suggested.

There are many things in the Half-Life universe that we've had to infer for ourselves. I reckon this is one of them.

I'll eat my dick if I'm wrong.

 

[Eejit]

It's heavily suggested that the Advisors are the dominant species in the Combine, it's far less clear whether they founded the Empire.

 

[Absinthe]

It's a bit of an assumption, I concede. But for the sake of a self-contained story, it's an entirely reasonable one.

 

[blackout]

I will accept the possibility of them not being the original combine, but all im saying is that it's just more likely that they are.

 

[Eejit]

Ok, if that's all you're saying now then that's fine, you actually understand me.

 

[Asknoone]

It's heavily suggested that the Advisors are the dominant species in the Combine, it's far less clear whether they founded the Empire.

Certainly it might be suggested Joker knew Bruce Wayne was be Batman, but it's far -- far -- less clear as to whether he really did.

 

[Eejit]

Pfft, that's far more heavily implied if you read between the lines.

 

[SamuraiKenji]

Yes the advisors are the original combine.
/end

 

[Eejit]

Fail.

 

[blackout]

you still "coming for" those people who voted no darkside?

 

[geratongs3000]

I would say they are more like shells for people, since it is implied that they transferred Breen into an Advisor body.

 

[Absinthe]

Advisors, ignoring their origins in relation to the Combine Empire, are confirmed to have evolved into their state in RtB. They are not "shells".

And it is implied Breen was transferred to a host body, not necessarily an Advisor. If you read RtB and specifically how Breen came about as a character, there's a possible depiction of what they may have been referring to...

Also, the Combine are humans millions of years into the future.

 

[Filip]

They are not!!!

 

[Barnz]

The Combine is a combination of different species (including humans) working (or forced to work) together. Other than that, you?ll have to stay tuned for more information as we work it into the games.

From: boris vanderbeek [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:57 PM
To: Marc Laidlaw
Subject: Re: 7hr

Yes, but the Roman Empire were all humans and as far as I could tell the Advisors and the Striders are two different species. What I'm trying to ask is if there is some evil overlord apart from dr. Breen that drove the combine into conquering the human race?

From: Marc Laidlaw <[email protected]>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:18:49 PM
Subject: RE: 7hr

Hi, Boris,

?The Combine? is a name for a large organization. So asking if the Advisors are the Combine is like asking if a Roman Senator is the Roman Empire . There?s no one creature called The Combine.

Marc Laidlaw

From: Gabe Newell
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:10 PM
To: Marc Laidlaw
Subject: FW: 7hr

From: boris vanderbeek [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:04 PM
To: Gabe Newell
Subject: 7hr

Are the advisors the combine in their true form since striders and gunships are robots (I think), or will the true form of the combine be revealed in ep3?

/thread

 

[CombineHunter]

To make things short yes.

 

[Eejit]

test /threaded already what do you think you are doing!?