AI physics interaction?

C

Cyperion

Guest
You know what would be completely cool if the developers implemented this in HL2? AI physics interaction. (from now on abbreviated as AIPI cause im lazy)


An NPC could use the physics to his advantage, in combat. Say your driving a jeep along a dystopian road with trees along it. An NPC, with AIPI the NPC could shoot barrels in front of the car, or somehow cause a falling tree or an avalanche onto your vehicle.

This might already be implemented. If it's not, and if you read this Gabe, maybe you could consider it. I just think it would be totally awesome.

Okay... Shutting up now...
 
Yeah, like in the e3 videos, when a zombie threw a barrel at the player.
 
Haha...... (4 letters + 6 periods = 10) W00t we're learning math here!
 
but...

3 letters + 7 periods + 1 space + 28 "miscellaneous characters"
= 39 characters, so u didn't have to worry about the limit at all.
 
Top Secret said:
Yep....... (3 letters + 7 periods = 10)
Click to expand...

This is exactly what we're trying to prevent. There's no point in you just replying wiht "Yep", it adds nothing. Stop now.
 
Interaction is always a case of AI intelligence. HL² is going in the right direction with the throwing stuff, but it probably be a few years yet before we start encountering AI that literally turn the tables on us through the use of physics without the use of scene specific scripts.
 
think of it this way, it is and it's not implemented. As in, it is implemented in a limited sense, it's scripted, something like:
if there is something heavy near by & npc weapon is not strong enough then pick up object and through at player

to hamper movement, like to stop the player when riding a vehicle is a little more complex, first the npc has to find out whether it's advantageous for them to stop the vehicle, this is the hardest part, why would an npc stop your vehicle just so he can get shot when there was a tank waiting around the corner... he's better of slowing you down somehow. then they have to understand what can stop the vehicle, like object in the way, blowing a tire up, blowing up the road, shooting the gas...etc, this part can be scripted in a way as well.

I dont know if valve is using neural networks and such complex AI. I think they are only using smart scripting coupled with the usual pathfinding, clustering, cooperation and such.

All this to say that the npc will be very unimaginative if you handed a physgun over to them.

PS: what i mean by 'scripted' is that it's part of the npc AI coding and not a product of AI experimentation as in Neural Networks. Scripting can also mean that it's scripted into the level design instead of the programming, I'm not referring to that in my above post.
 
I really think that if the Geo-mod was used in Hl2 probaly the AI would hv millions of opportunities to physics interaction. But since the techonolgy isn't adv. enough to apply it properly, they didn't.
So physics interaction will be minimal, if it exists, and probably scripted most of the time.
 
I really think that if the Geo-mod was used in Hl2 probaly the AI would hv millions of opportunities to physics interaction. But since the techonolgy isn't adv. enough to apply it properly, they didn't.
So physics interaction will be minimal, if it exists, and probably scripted most of the time.
Click to expand...
I dont think it will be like that. yeah, there will be scripted sequences, nearly ALL games have SOME scripted sequences. I still think that the AI will interact with the physics in some manner, maybe not perfect. I bet that would be HARD to code....
 
This is exactly what we're trying to prevent. There's no point in you just replying wiht "Yep", it adds nothing. Stop now.
Click to expand...

Yes, it does add something. I'm backing his statement. If I had said "Indeed sir, I concur with your given information." You wouldn't have said anything. But since I said 'yep', for short, I'm now 'breaking a rule'.
 
Well you would have still been adding nothing to the thread, cause he was asking if it was in there, and mentioning that it would be cool if it was. Not to be flaming you or anything, just saying "yep" would make sense if he said, "how many people agree with me on this"
 
Mmm, havok with incredibly advanced AI and squad tactics.. *droooooool*
 
Actually, I read that HL2 does use some simple neural net AI for certain things...
 
What's the difference between "neural network" AI and regular AI?
*hurries to look it up so as to have a witty response ready before someone replies*
 
Regular AI is (usually) preset and pre-programmed, Neural nets can, to a limited extent, learn. They attempt to mimic some of the functions of the human brain, but they're not quite there yet...
 
Don't you love it when people go. Hey that was spam! then the next person says so was that! then the third person thinks their REALLY smart when they say, hah, hippocrite, that was spam to. but WAIT then the original perpetrator comes back and points out the idiocy of the whole shenanigan.. *sigh* I love forums.
 
I don't love it when holier-than-thou forum browsers like yourself try to look all cool by knocking other forum members. In addition to coming off as a jerk, you contributed yet another off-topic post to this thread, which means spam, while concurrently talking crap about other people who were doing the same thing. Just keep your fingers at bay next time and let us spammers get ours from forum admins, dude.

In response to Brian damage about Neural Net AI...
That's spiffy! I'm just now learning how to do linked lists and stuff with C++, so hopefully I can move on to data trees and AI quickly. I'm working on a simple poker game right now, but have no knowledge of how to write AI code, so I can only make one that doesn't involve a computer opponent :(
 
Well, the simplest tip on programming AI that I can give you is to get your AI do something really simple, such as going in a straight line. When it does something stupid, figure out why it did it, and add code to deal with the situation. Repeat as much as neccessary.
 
Cool. I'll try and remember that when I'm there. I can't wait to see Half-Life 2's AI in action. I'm just hoping that it isn't only a single step forward from the last HL game. The AI great in the last game, don't get me wrong! But, I think that if HL2 is going to be the revolution that we want it to be, it's going to have to include smarter opponents.
 
You can't just say, "I agree." That's 6 words + 1 period= 7 characters. I hate the stupid rule.
 
ray_MAN said:
You can't just say, "I agree." That's 6 words + 1 period= 7 characters. I hate the stupid rule.
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"I agree." is exactly the kind of responses they're trying to filter out. It's basically spam; it adds nothing to the topic. The mods want people to actually join in on the conversation and add insight, not just chime in with an "I agree."
 
Sandman said:
I don't love it when holier-than-thou forum browsers like yourself try to look all cool by knocking other forum members. In addition to coming off as a jerk, you contributed yet another off-topic post to this thread, which means spam, while concurrently talking crap about other people who were doing the same thing. Just keep your fingers at bay next time and let us spammers get ours from forum admins, dude.
Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to be holier than thou, I wasn't trying to look cool. And I wasn't knocking anybody, cuz nobody was really serious about the spam. N I'm well aware it was of the fact that my post was off topic.. It's called "satire" or "irony" sorry if it was lost on you. If you think what I was doing was 'talking crap' you must have cried a lot on the playground as a kid.
 
Fiddle said:
I wasn't trying to be holier than thou, I wasn't trying to look cool. And I wasn't knocking anybody, cuz nobody was really serious about the spam. N I'm well aware it was of the fact that my post was off topic.. It's called "satire" or "irony" sorry if it was lost on you. If you think what I was doing was 'talking crap' you must have cried a lot on the playground as a kid.
Click to expand...


he did it again!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i just dont think were going to see good AI until its actualy invented, for real like in terminator.


but when that happens wont it be wrong to mindlesley sluaghter billions of AI?

then they will learn to eject the CD right into your balls and then they will probably power up the fans and make the case fall on your head while your rolling on the floor holding pre mention balls.


*selotapes cd drive, stick screw driver into CPU fan, hmm whats that burning smell?*
 
All that I want out of AI, really, is that it makes it fun to play, adds a bit of challenge and feels natural (maybe replayability too). I don't think that real advanced AI is needed.
 
Well, I agree with that to an extent. I think that good AI should be able to help keep the player alive, as well as teach the player how to stay alive on his own by example, and not by suggesting that the player use a rock for cover whenever there's a rock. The AI should do that sort of thing on its own, and the player should be able to mimic the AI's tactics, not run circles around them... or bunny-hop around them if it's original HL ;)
 
Although CZ took a bit of a beating when the Ritual Version was reviewed, one thing that did get highly praised was the the Bot AI which Valve developed (Ritual created the campaign section), I expect that HL²'s AI will be comparable, naturally based upon difficulty.
 
I believe the enemies should actually be capable of killing you... Did anybody here actually die while playing Half Life? I did sometimes.. when i was screwing around like, wonder how many grenades I can throw at my feet befor the first one explodes; and that shark isn't so tough.. I can kick him with my swimming legs. I want to be hair pullingly frustrated by this game to the point where I walk away from my computer pissed off for 15 minutes or something lol.

Dead to rights... Although a mediocre game, the challenge was what hooked me! **** that was a tough game!

Half the reason I'm looking forward to Ninja Gaiden, is because I know that's going to be a ball bustingly hard game. I want AI that is capable of taking out gordan! N not just because it does 1390123 damage with one swipe/throw/bite/shot, etc etc.

Those freaky ass chicky assassins were my favourite chicks/robots whatever to fight in HL. Damn that was fun! I would reload that fight over and over and beat it over and over. They were pretty damn smart sometimes... sometimes they were just retarded and would like, sit there with a nade at their feet. But overall.. Best Hl1 fights ever!

Give us tough phucken AI valve!
 
Actually i am thinking about HL2 mod that makes enimies smarter and learning.I am NN programmer, and i thought it would be cool to teech your companions :).But i need some more information.For example, wheter HL2 AI will be deep into the engine or it will be modable.I will be pleased if you tell me a person i can contact via mail and ask him about AI.
 
I would assume that you will be able to make big changes to the AI (or even start from scratch) with the SDK since some mods would require the AI to do totally different things than what HL2 singleplayer needs.

... and people have made plenty of bots for HL. I doubt Valve would go backwards that far in terms of AI moddability.
 
Wow so much stuff in this thread. Very intersting points. Well I have some things to say. Fisrt of all, even if advanced AI was implemented in games today, it does take up CPU. So you won't be able to have 4 einstien level intelligence guys in one room all thinking about the kinetic theory in physics. (Whatever that means) In the beta, (mock me go ahead) there was pretty good enemy tactics AI. They fall out and get behind cover and creep around corners, not bunching up, and when I blew away their cover, they would move to a new spot. I've even had them duck when I threw a box at them.

All I want from Valve's AI system is ability to think tacticly, as stated above, swap weapons/give ammo to their allies when needed, respond to the ever changing physical world, and think in a 2 level deep intelligence. (If I do this, then that will happen)
 
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