AI Realism Gripes

M

MyrddinE

Guest
I liked the new Barricade video, but there was one that that really bothered me about the whitecoat AIs... specifically, they did not look around at all. They looked straight forward... they did not look at me... they did not look at corners or up or around... they just walked straight ahead and stared at the floor in front of them.

I think they could use some minor improvements... specifically, they need to look around a lot more, point their guns at dark corners that MIGHT hold a monster, and act more like real people in dangerous, scary situations.

Opinions?
 
Watch it again, they look at you where they are walking through ruins.
 
I kind of agree. Thats what a real person would do.
 
With you guys its all or nothing, isn't it? Good lord, I'd hate to think what kind of half-assed piece of !@#$ you'd create if you were given the same monetary resources as Valve to make the sequel. IMHO they have made so many technological strides with this game already that I'm sure it will set the new standard for not only the FPS but games in general, much like its predecessor did. Who gives a flying **** if the AI doesn't look at their surroundings? This isn't a life simulator, for Christ's sake!
Give me the manipulator gun, a long, dark alley with a Strider on the opposite end of it, and plenty of furniture along the way and I won't see sunlight for at least two weeks.
 
Ya, like at the end of the baricade the combine are busy pointing at the resistance instead of shooting them. :rolleyes:

I honestly doubt this is the full force of the ai anyway, they were probably set to stay put so gordan and the untrained resistance can defeat hords upon hords of trained soldiers wielding oicws. :dozey:
 
Personally, I thought the NPC's in that demo were awesome, some of the best I've seen, even rivaling the terrific NPC animation and AI of Raven Shield. They stuck close to you wihtout etting in your way, they looked for cover when appropriate, and they didn't get stuck trying to walk through a simple door. That's good stuff.
 
The AIs were good, some of the best I've seen yet... the only thing that bothered me was their tendancy to look straight forward as they walked, not left or right.

There are people SHOOTING at them... but when going through a potentially hostile building, they look straight ahead. Or stand at a door (a GREAT position, I was impressed with that) staring... away from the door.

I have nothing wrong with how they act or move, only what their heads are doing while they do it. They don't look around, they look like there is nothing interesting in the world but the next 5 feet where they place their feet. That is what bothered me. All I was hoping for was for the AI to act more nervous, scared, and aware of their surroundings. Some variety (some of the AI acting nervous and looking around, others focued on just moving forward) would be even better.

No matter how great Half Life 2 is, once we've played it there will be things that bother us, annoy us... and for me, the complete change from 'scripted acting with behavior' to 'stare ahead and act robotic' will be jarring, in my opinion.

I'm just asking for their heads to emote and animate more while they move around without an enemy to shoot at at the moment.
 
If I was in a life threatening situation, I would not be looking at your ugly ass, sorry.
 
Well, I think someone could make a mod which had smarter AI. Looking around corners/leaning etc. Might have been a design decision or VALVe didn't have enough time to perfect it.
 
Your allies do look around, it's just not totally noticable.

The most noticable one is when they come out of the ruined building and one looks down the road behind you.

The guy who gets shot by the turret is looking at the combine when he's running.

Just before you exit the ruined building, a guy looks up. Also, the player looks up just after he's done this.

I would post screenshots but I'm off to collect exam results.
 
Well, I dont think Valve intends for it to be ultra realistic for the player... Its got a bit of cartoonish approach. I like it though. The only problem I had with them was that the textures on the guys (not barney) looked terrible. Maybe AF will fix that (oh the horror of watching the clip, my fingers itch to enable it).

Btw, concerning realism, I havent seen any note about the fact that Gordon is more agile than a cat, and seems to be able to position his head below knee level. Even a circus artist would have problem doing that and still moving around with a gun, let alone doing it in a suit of armor :)
 
The ai was turned down in the bugbait vid, maybe this one aswell?
 
Originally posted by dawdler
Btw, concerning realism, I havent seen any note about the fact that Gordon is more agile than a cat, and seems to be able to position his head below knee level. Even a circus artist would have problem doing that and still moving around with a gun, let alone doing it in a suit of armor :)
Click to expand...
Explain...
One thing I don't like about the resistance (and usually I make it a point not to bitch and moan about these videos) is that their facial models are really rubbish. Maybe it's just me but they're really not that great - especially in comparison with everything else. It wouldn't be a big thing except for the fact that the other faces are so very good. We shall see.
 
I prefer gordon being super agile as opposed to other in game heroes.

Solid snake can outsmart a platoon of 15 troopers but has real difficulty getting past a raised curb or concrete wall which could easily be stepped over by an anorexic pygmy on crutches.

One worry i have about his movement is how they handle ladders, the system in HL1 for getting on and off ladders left a lot to be desired, to easy to get stuck on the top of them. Personnally I like the project IGI system but it takes you out of first person and breaks the flow so it wouldn't fit in half life. Action buttons for using ladders can be ok maybe the igi system but stya first person. Who knows...
 
The AI was turned down a few notches for these videos. Gabe said so himself.
 
Most of the AI features was turned off, this has been explained 5000024823492849829 times.
 
Yes, and another thing, the graphics aren't completely photorealistic down to modelling individual atoms and the path of subatomic particles.

Valve are shit.
 
Originally posted by Reaper978
Ya, like at the end of the baricade the combine are busy pointing at the resistance instead of shooting them. :rolleyes:

I honestly doubt this is the full force of the ai anyway, they were probably set to stay put so gordan and the untrained resistance can defeat hords upon hords of trained soldiers wielding oicws. :dozey:
Click to expand...

Bingo , good to see you arent brassmonkey who can never say anything even neutral about HL2 :) . I do admit that was weird but they were set up like you said.
 
One last comment... I am not asking for the AI to be any SMARTER. I'm not looking for them to aim better, or be more able to react to a sudden threat or anything.

I'm asking for them to ACT more realistic, specifically to look around, act nervous, act aware, perhaps have a wild scared expression sometimes... no change to the way they behave, just the way they look. They LOOK wooden right now... they act a bit like military soldiers doing the duck run... I dunno what the real term is, but that's when one person leads standing up and looking around, and the rest follow watching the ground so they don't fall down.

These aren't military personell, trained in US miltary tactics... they're freaking militia, fighting for their city. They are going to be scared, looking around, jumping at shadows. The more scared they look, the more tension it puts on the player... it increases the perceived danger of the situation, a good thing. If the AI are calm, the player is calm, and that's boring. If the AI are scared then the player can either feel scared too (suspension of disbelief, good), or they can feel superior in their calmness (feelings of power, also good).

Just my opinion.
 
One more note... their walk is suitable when they are under fire, in the open... it just is not suitable for quieter situations, where the enemy could approach from any direction and they are not under fire at that moment. When not under fire, people look around for danger... when under fire, they act like the AI do now, hunkering down and trying to be a small target.
 
"These aren't military personell"

What makes you say that?
 
It was said that the faces of some NPC'S are less detailed because those particular NPC'S aren't that important, ie they don't talk as much as Alyx for instance, so they are less detailed to save some processing power. I've got Erik Johnson on Steam right now, I'll ask him if the white coat militia are such less-detailed NPC'S. Will report back here if I get him to talk to me hehe.
 
I personally think they reacted realistically to the threat ahead. Following their "squadleader" (Gordon in this case), trying to be a small target, shoot, run, looking for targets etc. etc. I think the AI will raise the bar for all FPS' to come (been said before, i know)
 
Roach says:
Hi mr Johnson, got time for a quick question on HL2?
Roach says:
u must hate when this happens :)
Roach says:
Ok i'm going to be rude and just type in my question, i understand you're a very busy man so i'd be extremely happy if you would honour my question with an answer
Erik Johnson says:
Fire away, I'll try.
Roach says:
It was said that the faces of some NPC'S are less detailed because those particular NPC'S aren't that important, ie they don't talk as much as Alyx for instance, so they are less detailed to save some processing power. People have recently commented that the 'white coat militia' in the Barricade video have less detailed faces than other NPC's like Barney. Is this a misconception?
Roach says:
(Damn I suck at formulating my question. Forgive me, English isn't my first language hehe)
Erik Johnson says:
That is a misconception. All of the faces will have the same art quality/level.
Roach says:
Ah great. Thanks. Not too much trouble with the power outages in USA I hope?
Erik Johnson says:
Not over here on the West coast.
Roach says:
Good :) Thanks for answering my question, I'm going to leave you be now, perhaps if I think of some more questions that are worth asking, we'll talk some more. Thanks for you time, appreciate it.


Let me say...w00t!!

Edit: added last reply
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

MFL
Fascinating look at the ongoing psychological evolution of flat hieirarchies.
Replies
2
Views
2K
Tollbooth Willie
Tollbooth Willie
B
Gabe Newell's AMA summary (January 17, 2017)
Replies
1
Views
24K
Gerzowktz
Gerzowktz
B
Community Interviews: Tony Newton, co-creator of Redemption
Replies
0
Views
5K
Barnz
B
Pikminiman
I dreamt up a HL-VR game last night
Replies
3
Views
2K
Omnomnick
Omnomnick
Omnomnick
Examining The Files Of "SteamVR Performance Test" & "Aperture Robot Repair"
Replies
27
Views
91K
MFL
MFL
Back
Top