AI Scripting

[tCh]

Who really cares i fthe AI in HL2 is scripted or not. I only care if it is fun, cool and replayable.

 

[Neutrino]

ok........

 

[blahblahblah]

I love scripting, when done properly, it makes for some cool sequences.

The problem is that some times you don't properly trigger the script and so you get a half-baked game experience. Or you die shortly after the trigger event so you have to repeat the scripted event again, and again, again which gets very annoying.

You have none of those problems with a fully dynamic AI, which probably won't happen for another 10 years or so.

 

[Spiffae]

well thank goodness for this thread.

 

[tCh]

You have none of those problems with a fully dynamic AI, which probably won't happen for another 10 years or so.

Is there any AI engines kinda like Havoks physics engine but just for AI?

 

[Neutrino]

Is there any AI engines kinda like Havoks physics engine but just for AI?

You mean a third party A.I. specific engine? Well, sure there is plenty of R & D into this sort of thing, but I don't believe that there is any that are meant for games. As far as I know, each game company programs their own AI for the most part.

 

[blahblahblah]

No, program exists like that. The problem is that you would have to create an equation that will tell what the AI to do in every situation. You can have that in a physics program but not AI program. AI is incredibly complex.

[Edit]: Neutrino - I thought he was talking about a program like the Havoc physics engine in the sense that it could do physics calculations on a object on the fly. Instead of physics, that program would calculate AI reactions.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Should we really be researching AI this much?

Has terminator and 2001: a space oddysey taught us nothing? When i'm seriously wounded by own computer which is trying to defend itself against me formatting it, then i'll have to say "told you so".

=D

 

[tCh]

If a group of people did just specificaly AI and liscensed it... We would probably see a lot better AI.. or at least I hope

 

[Lucifer Crass]

AI has nothing to do with scripted sequences. Why do you think they do? Ther eis nothing similar between them.

AI tells the computer where to move the opponent to get the advanteage over you.

Scripting tells the computer to move the character to do something specific, like hug or something.

newbs.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

and scripting can be used to enhance the appearance and effectiveness of the AI, to complement it. Or it can be used to give the illusion that the AI is more effective than it actually is.

Newb.

 

[dream431ca]

That's why they invented fuzzy logic, where AI can actually CHOOSE what to do. In the lord of the rings they used fuzzy logic in the huge battle scenes so all the computer generated fighters looked real. I don't know if that would work in Half-life 2.

 

[blahblahblah]

AI has nothing to do with scripted sequences. Why do you think they do? Ther eis nothing similar between them.

AI tells the computer where to move the opponent to get the advanteage over you.

Scripting tells the computer to move the character to do something specific, like hug or something.

newbs.

AI is used to operate NPC's (enemies included). Scripting can be used to affect NPC's. Scripting is used whenever a developer wants to do something with the NPC's that the AI is not able to do.

Here is an example I have in mind...

You are attacking several bad guys in front of you. There is also a path in that area that would allow the bad guys to flank you. Normally the AI would not recognize that there is a way to flank you. But, with some scripting, you would start battling with a few bad guys when you enter the room and then get flank by some more bad guys creating a much more realistic AI without doing the impossible.

Yes, programmers could probably implement some sort of flanking consideration in the AI's routine. But, using scripting will save all of the programming time of having to write that routine that may only be used once or twice in a game.

Scripting can allow enemies to have much more complicated (although fixed) routines than a typical AI program could not normally have.

If a group of people did just specificaly AI and liscensed it... We would probably see a lot better AI.. or at least I hope

Yes, if there is a company that focused exclusively on AI, AI would get better because that is all they would focus on. That would be a great business to start.

 

[Lucifer Crass]

In hl2 all of the AI will do flanking etc without map equiped script hinting. (According to Gabe)

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

It was an example, not a specific case.

 

[obsidian]

'real' AI, or at least the AI you would want in a video game is still ages off.

 

[FictiousWill]

third party AI would be a good idea, as long as they allow enough variables to be alterable by the developers so that you can have noticably different kinds of AI for different games. I don't mean that the AI would be limited, just would be able to be weighted differently, so npcs in a star wars game would understand the workings of that game universe, or something... I dunno. Just as long as a generic AI was avoided, it would work well.

As for AI in games in general, though, I can't wait until the AI gets to conversation-level, and when AI's demonstrate some real emergent behavior.

 

[Briderider]

Er you can get (and most developers use) third party route solving programs. Route solving is consided AI by programers. Also most game engines include some sort of higher level scripting language for AI like source does. So if you are using a third party game engine then you could say it was third party AI. Also fuzy logic is really another term for AI nomaly refers to implemetion at a hardware level i.e in a washing machine.

 

[Dead-Inside]

Yes, programmers could probably implement some sort of flanking consideration in the AI's routine. But, using scripting will save all of the programming time of having to write that routine that may only be used once or twice in a game.

Actually I believe Half-Life 2 will use it more then 50 times in your gaming experience. That doesn't really apply to Half-Life 2 (About the scripting). However there might be places where, as mentioned by VALVe, the AI will be hinted to do something, as flank, for gameplay reasons. But there will never be exact orders/scripts apart from dialogs and such - That's been stated by VALVe.

 

[blahblahblah]

Actually I believe Half-Life 2 will use it more then 50 times in your gaming experience. That doesn't really apply to Half-Life 2 (About the scripting). However there might be places where, as mentioned by VALVe, the AI will be hinted to do something, as flank, for gameplay reasons. But there will never be exact orders/scripts apart from dialogs and such - That's been stated by VALVe.

My example was simple an example, nothing more. My example doesn't apply to any one game engine or AI routine. It was to provide an example on what scripting can to do an AI. I was trying to make a point that scripting can be used to make computer AI seem more complex/life-like than what is normally possible.

So yes, HL2 may have those flanking manuevers, but they may use scripting on something else. Hint = Script, you are telling the AI to do something they normally wouldn't know or do. I have no problems with scripts at all as long as they are done properly.

 

[Dead-Inside]

I know very well what scripting is. No need to lecture me.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I though you were getting down on Half-Life 2. The example never said it excluded HL2, my bad.

There will be hints in the AI engine on maps and such, as well as where and where to to take cover. Also been stated by VALVe.

Regards
Dead-Inside

 

[blahblahblah]

Small misunderstandings on a small thread, Dead-Inside :cheers:

 

[Mountain Man]

Fully autonomous and dynamic AI, while good in theory, could quickly lead to a very dull game with no "set piece" moments. Autonomous AI that operates intependent of the player would be great for populating an RPG world but not for a straight up action game like Half-Life 2.

I think Valve is striking the right balance by creating reactive AI (that is, AI that responds appropriately to the player's actions) and "hints", such as things the AI can interact with or waypoints so it can more effeciently navigate. This is not "scripting" in the traditional sense. Scripting says that the AI entity always goes down that ally in order to flank the player. Half-Life 2's "hint" system says that the AI entity knows about the ally but will only traverse it if appropriate for the situation.

 

[Mountain Man]

Yes, if there is a company that focused exclusively on AI, AI would get better because that is all they would focus on. That would be a great business to start.

The problem is, AI is often game specific. It would be very difficult to create a general purpose AI package the way Havok has done with physics.

 

[Dead-Inside]

Fully autonomous and dynamic AI, while good in theory, could quickly lead to a very dull game with no "set piece" moments. Autonomous AI that operates intependent of the player would be great for populating an RPG world but not for a straight up action game like Half-Life 2.

I think Valve is striking the right balance by creating reactive AI (that is, AI that responds appropriately to the player's actions) and "hints", such as things the AI can interact with or waypoints so it can more effeciently navigate. This is not "scripting" in the traditional sense. Scripting says that the AI entity always goes down that ally in order to flank the player. Half-Life 2's "hint" system says that the AI entity knows about the ally but will only traverse it if appropriate for the situation.

And added to that, you can also set an extra "probability" scale, so not only when to, but the probability of it happening (More or less then - average -)

 

[Lobster]

The node hinting is as deep as the scripting goes, (the same with any other game currently out there), they use it for navigating the map only, how they use it is up to the ai.

If you dissappear from a group of soldiers into a building and shut the door and block it, they will search for you using a random search pattern over the hundreds of node points around them, when they find you (through a window say) they can use doors, windows, hatches, ladders, vents etc using trial and error to try and kill you.

Things like, squad combat, flanking, rushing, using cover, providing covering and surpressive fire, using grenades, kicking/throwing physics objects, breaking stuff, and threat assesment is all handled automaticly by the ai.

Its a more complex system of what nearly every other game has been using for years, but now the ai can do more visualy impressive and fun things using physics and more complex map geometry, (which gives alot of control to the mapper) which ultimately makes the game more of a challenge.