air conditioning and math teachers

xcellerate

xcellerate

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So i just finished a math test where they wouldn't let me use my calculator. Which sort of makes sense. But when it comes down to it, they aren't letting me use my calculator because it does the work that i don't know how to do (essentially i don't know how pre calc works). So...i can't use a tool because it knows how to do something that i don't understand.

So by their logic shouldn't they not be allowed to drive a car? Because they don't understand what happens when they press the gas pedal. They also don't know how the air conditioning system works, so they can't use that either. Which is the same situation as me pressing the 'equals' sign on my calculator, i know how it works but i don't know what happens when i press it.

I don't understand how exponential growth is more important than a basic understanding of evaporation and condensation (how a/c works).

If i'm not going to teach the concept to others, why do i need to understand it fully? Why can't i be content just knowing how to do it?
 
If you can't do math without a calculator, you'll get erectile dysfunctions when you're older. Or something.
 
You know... when you're stranded on a desert island with no calculator and you have to do integration of 3D equations by hand in order to break the secret code that unlocks the lifetime supply of fresh food, water, and various other supplies and equipment necessary to survive long enough to build a boat with which to escape... you'll be sorry! Trust me, it will* happen.



* ... and by "will" I really mean "most definately won't ever."
 
before this gets ugly, i can totally do math. This isn't a boohoo, math is hard thread. I was just thinking on my way back from the test, and it didn't make sense.
 
Because by proving you understand the underlying concept you're demonstrating your ability?
 
Because you're there to learn. The only way they can know if you've learned anything is if you take a test. If you use a calculator, they won't know if you've learned it or not.

They're not there to learn anything, so they're not being tested, and thus don't need to understand how the air conditioner works.
 
So basically you're saying that you needing a calculator because you don't know how to do the sum that your calculator knows how to do?
Also you're saying that therefore your math teacher shouldn't be allowed to use a car because he doesn't know how it works?

Isn't that basically saying that by your way of reasoning, your math teacher would need something like... I dunno, a drivers liscense before he can drive?
I mean sure you can use a calculator without knowing how to do a certain sum. But you need a basic understanding of mathematics to be able to use a calculator - your metaphorical 'Calculator liscense'.

Sure your teacher doesn't know precisely how an air condition works. But they have a basic understanding (i.e. air goes in warm, comes out cold). that is equivalent, or = your basic understanding of how to use the 'Plus' 'Minus' 'Multiplication' And 'Division' buttons on your calculator.


Am I right?
 
Because it's not air-conditioning class
 
Once you get into the crazy stats shit, they throw claculators at you. That's how it was for ap stats a few years ago at least.
 
At my high school, the teachers let us use calculators. It was really so we didn't waste time adding or subtracting and so forth. It was about how we got the answer not what we got. As long as we showed the work, it was okay. In fact, for the last exam, the teachers encouraged us to use our calculators. It's really hard to track numbers without a calculator.
 
my school has a similar policy but its different if you have a calculator thats not supposed to be used tyhe teacher will simply loan you one. end of case.
 
In Algebra II, I had a weird teacher who didn't let us use calculators. We had to do every single matrix problem on the test by hand, some were 3x3 or 4x4. That stuff is annoying. It was sad that we got the same tests as the other Algebra II classes but they got to use calculators and we didn't.

The rest of my high school math classes let us use calculators.

.... But now I'm in university and we don't get to use our calculators anymore. We also have to use this really crappy graphing program for physics labs. :p
 
Lame dfc cramers rule was a biatch also finding those determinants.
 
what grade are you in? in my schools they let us use calculators whenever we want.........even on a test(but not regents exams)
 
wait till you get to the level of math where calculators can't help you. Then you'll wish the questions atleast had numbers in them to do calculations with.
 
It's calculus. The reason behind using and not using a calculator really depends on the school. Theoretically, you spend x amount of years learning to do the basic functions done with a calculator. Then, when you move into other areas of math, you use the calculator so you can focus your attention on the functions (for example) instead of routines that you already know. Not that this is always how it's done, it depends on the school, but that's usually the idea.

One reason you are asked to know how math works when you can just use your calculator is because our country at large would rather have us making the calculators and math software than be a nation of cretins dependent on using them. Higher math is not a skill you will typically use in everyday life. Even if it is something you do use, you'll usually have software to do the equations for you. (I love math, and am fortunate enough to have to use it every day! :dork:) Fery few people need to be able to do higher level math in the "field" where they don't have software or at least a textbook to help them. I've used higher math skills about four different times in the "field" where I work now.

Cars v. math? Knowing how to fix a car, and fix it well, will open a couple of doors career-wise. Knowing how to do math, and do it well, will open a great many doors career-wise. The educational system opts for the latter. You need to know how the fundamentals of math work to move to higher levels of math, or you won't fully grasp it. Once you do, some schools let you use calculators and whatnot so you can focus more on the new concepts. Like computers - if all you know how to do is use Office and surf the Internet, you'll be in a bind if your computer has a problem. Maybe you can reboot it, but if you don't know the fundamentals of how it works, you're sunk. Like cars - if all you know how to do is drive one, you'll be in a bind if your car has a problem. Maybe you can change a flat, but if you don't know the fundamentals of how it works, you're sunk. Like math - if all you know how to do is work a calculator, you'll be in a bind if you ever need to do something constructive with math. Maybe you can add some numbers, but if you ever try to use your math skills to predict something, you may be disappointed.
 
A question I have for everyone is: What's the highest level of math skills you have ever used outside of school that was applied to something besides just the problem itself? Not something where you put some data into a spreadsheet or other software and clicked "go", something where you had to be creative to figure it out.
 
the ti-89 allows me to do that problem, it just looks something along the lines of ∫(xln(abs(cos^-1(x))d(x)

Yea, i realize some of the higher level maths are at the point where calculators provide little assistance. Still it's just the idea that both a teacher and a student can be using machines that they don't understand what it is they do to work, but just how to work them, and that one can use his but not the other.

And i guarantee you if i asked my math teacher what directly happens when you press the gas pedal (at least on older cars) she would have no idea. I also know that i could ask some students how to solve this problem, and they would have no idea, but they know how to enter it into a calculator and even though they don't understand what happens they still get the right answer. My math teacher can press the a/c button in her car and turn the knob to '2' and make the air cold, even though she has no idea what happens.

A week or three ago i was called to this woman’s house (mid 30's) to fix her computer because it was making a weird noise. When i got there i immediately recognized the sound as a fan dieing. So as I’m removing the fan i ask her if she ever shut her computer off at night or whenever, and she told me that she didn't because she didn't like to wait for it to boot up and how surprised she was that a fan would burn out.

...gee yea, that's crazy that a spinning blade is subject to friction just like everything else and friction creates heat, which shortens it's life span. Yea who would have thought that you dumb bitch.

Anyway, maybe i'm lazy but if there's an easier way to do something i don't understand why we don't do it? And if the no easier way to solve ∫xln|csc(x)| dx then that's fine!

...but to solve that, you probably need to know the simpler concepts...ok then, i guess i'm done.
 
Adabiviak said:
One reason you are asked to know how math works when you can just use your calculator is because our country at large would rather have us making the calculators and math software than be a nation of cretins dependent on using them.
Click to expand...
Just because you know how to make a calculator write software doesn't mean you aren't dependant on calculators... I doubt the engineers who built my calculator would be able to solve tan(sqrt(9846238964*298623^233)) in their head.
 
but they need to understand the process by which it is solved so that they can logically get the calculator to do it for any possible value. Although to be honest I've never learned how to manually do trig functions. You just get em from the calculator, or if you're my grandpa, from a trig table. One of the "practical" problems for numerical integration our prof came up with was to calculate the error propagation in a computer calculation of some integral using Taylor's series. Because computer can't store exact values, they can only store bits of data which mean that everything is rounded off by some amount epsilon. Not fun stuff
 
SHIPPI said:
I've always thought that was a bit weird too. I doubt I'll ever need to do any maths other than the basics in the future, and while I can do those fine I'd probably use a calculator to make sure I'd got it right. Calculators aren't hard to come by, I don't forsee me being in any situation where I have to do maths and I have no calculator.
Click to expand...

It's not about being stranded on an island without a calculator, it's about really understanding the concept and learning reasoning and problem solving skills that will be useful your entire life. If you don't think math will be useful to you in the future, there are usually descelerated paths you can take.

The tests aren't really to see whether you can do it, though, they test your understanding... the understanding isn't important in day to day life, but it shows your intelligence, or something. If everyone used calculators 99% of people would get it all right. Wouldn't be much point in the test, then I suppose
Click to expand...

Oh no, you completely missed the point of the educational system.

Math teachers really don't care about your intelligence, and they want everyone to get perfect scores, they care about you learning and applying mathematic skills in reasoning so that you can apply them to day-to-day life, not only to mathematics. A calculator is purely a mathematical instrument, if you associate all math with math itself, that's the only area it will be useful. However, schools teach mathematics in order to induce a reasoning "common sense." Whether you are conscious of it or not, by practicing using a system that is purely logical, your logical reasoning abilities are improving. It shows if you dropped out of Algebra or if you took calculus, and not just in math related subjects.

In addition to that, there are so many jobs out there that requre mathematics. If you are able to get an answer out of a calculator, you show that you know how to look at a math problem, plug in values, and extract an answer. However, in the countless mathematical jobs out there (ie math, physics, chemistry, electronics, programming) you never have a clear prompt. You need to use reasoning and understand where you can apply the mathematic skills, something that's impossible to do without havign a clear understanding of what the problem means, rather than just how to get the answer from a problem.
 
jondy said:
Because by proving you understand the underlying concept you're demonstrating your ability?
Click to expand...
QFT 6char
 
Conspirecies....or..however you spell it. Too lazy to search. But you guys get it.

Or..something
 
How can you use a calculator to do a sum you don't have a clue about?
 
If you don't know maths, how are you supposed to operate a calculator?
 
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