Al Qaeda's #3 Man... Captured

[CptStern]

well let's see ...at least 500,000 children (some say over a million in total during the sanction years) ...anywhere from 30,000 - 100,000 iraqi soldiers during first war, another 30,000 dead civilians ...another 30 -50 k iraqi soldiers this time around and another 17,000 dead civilians ..so that totals more than a million

saddam: 250 k to 300 k iraqis and kurds ..and another 800,000 iranians (but they're notiraqi)

 

[gh0st]

Haha god... "the UN sanctions mean the US killed them!". Strike 500,000 (which is bullshit anyway). Repeat after me stern: UN sanctions. UN sanctions. Guess which other countries supported those sanctions? Guess who squandered billions? Remove your head from your ass and apply some context here.

We killed Iraqi soldiers? Are you ****ing me? Strike that shit off the list immediatly. Ohh better not kill the soldiers! They might get hurt! Yeah I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on the civilian deaths (even though theres no substantiated evidence for either of them [actually maybe GW1]). Frankly I'll take the lesser of two evils. But you would skew numbers around and blame them on America... nice shit.

 

[CptStern]

Haha god... "the UN sanctions mean the US killed them!". Strike 500,000 (which is bullshit anyway). Repeat after me stern: UN sanctions. UN sanctions. Guess which other countries supported those sanctions? Guess who squandered billions? Remove your head from your ass and apply some context here.

We killed Iraqi soldiers? Are you ****ing me? Strike that shit off the list immediatly. Ohh better not kill the soldiers! They might get hurt! Yeah I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on the civilian deaths (even though theres no substantiated evidence for either of them [actually maybe GW1]). Frankly I'll take the lesser of two evils. But you would skew numbers around and blame them on America... nice shit.

nice way to back yourself up with facts gh0st m'boy

bada bing


oh and the coup de grace:

Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it.

--60 Minutes (5/12/96)

 

[gh0st]

Still using that quote and that document.... neither of which prove anything? Good on ya!

 

[Foxtrot]

nice way to back yourself up with facts gh0st m'boy

bada bing


oh and the coup de grace:

Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it.

--60 Minutes (5/12/96)

Wow, how many times are you going to bring out that same quote? And there inst a single other quote that is similar?

 

[oldagerocker]

Hadn't you better then come up with proof to the contrary gh0st?

How can you call that document as not proof, you havn't read it, or addressed its weak points. What sort of debate are you trying to pull? You dont give any evidence to backup your opinions and anything thats looked at by those you dont agree with, you disregard with naff comments.

Give us something to read and agree with you on.

 

[gh0st]

Hadn't you better then come up with proof to the contrary gh0st?

How can you call that document as not proof, you havn't read it, or addressed its weak points. What sort of debate are you trying to pull? You dont give any evidence to backup your opinions and anything thats looked at by those you dont agree with, you disregard with naff comments.

Give us something to read and agree with you on.

The burden of proof is on him, I have nothing to prove other than he's full of shit. That article doesnt prove we bombed water facilities (I'm still waiting for him to pull that gem out of his ass), and that quote Ms Albright has already apologized for (why I'm defending that bitch I dont know).

 

[oldagerocker]

I dont think it helps your case to resort to poor language, be creative and you'll get more respect.

Prove so many children didn't die, you havn't addressed his other point;

Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

This is a well respected journalist, reporting what she hears. I think if you gave better thought out rebuttles, you'll force Stern to find better evidence, other than rely on the things he does... and the argument can continue further, rather then resorting to rediculous personal insults.

 

[gh0st]

I dont think it helps your case to resort to poor language, be creative and you'll get more respect.

If you think I desire your respect you are greatly mistaken.

Prove so many children didn't die, you havn't addressed his other point;

I cant. Neither can he. "We have heard" doesnt mean "Yep it happened".

you'll force Stern to find better evidence, other than rely on the things he does... and the argument can continue further, rather then resorting to rediculous personal insults.

Thanks for the tip stern cant find better evidence, his argument against the iraq war consists of that quote and that article - both of which are meaningless. She apologized, because she realized it was inaccurate. Yet stern continues bringing it up calling it a coup de grace. Its disgraceful really. And that article doesnt prove diddly shit except that we looked at how Iraqs water treatment is handled. Stern ties it to some attack.

 

[oldagerocker]

If you think I desire your respect you are greatly mistaken.

I cant. Neither can he. "We have heard" doesnt mean "Yep it happened".

Thanks for the tip stern cant find better evidence, his argument against the iraq war consists of that quote and that article - both of which are meaningless. She apologized, because she realized it was inaccurate. Yet stern continues bringing it up calling it a coup de grace. Its disgraceful really. And that article doesnt prove diddly shit except that we looked at how Iraqs water treatment is handled. Stern ties it to some attack.

Then your cause is lost, if you cannot go about the debate in a professional manner, why bother? you only make yourself look a fool.

You complain that Sterns evidence is awful, yet you come up with none of your own. So what you're saying is fruitless, you convince noone. Just drop the issue. Forget Iraq, its just repeating and repeating and infuriating each other and its quite childish. If you cannot argue properly and do your standing and level of intellect some favours, dont bother.

 

[gh0st]

Then your cause is lost, if you cannot go about the debate in a professional manner, why bother? you only make yourself look a fool.

You complain that Sterns evidence is awful, yet you come up with none of your own. So what you're saying is fruitless, you convince noone. Just drop the issue. Forget Iraq, its just repeating and repeating and infuriating each other and its quite childish. If you cannot argue properly and do your standing and level of intellect some favours, dont bother.

THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON STERN. HE IS THE ONE MAKING HIS ARGUMENT. ITS HIS JOB TO PROVE HE IS RIGHT. WHEN HE HAS DECENT EVIDENCE I WILL REPLY IN KIND. THANK YOU FOR THE LECTURE. :sigh: I'm not interested in your candy ass "proper" debating.

 

[Murray_H]

I caught this guy

He wanted loose to go and feed his goose. I told him now, and he came with me

It's christmas soon

 

[oldagerocker]

If this is what you call a discussion; flying insults at each other and generally bringing down the level of debate. I dont want to know what you consider an argument.

(It's nowhere near Christmas!! Wish it was.... :angel: )

 

[gh0st]

If this is what you call a discussion; flying insults at each other and generally bringing down the level of debate. I dont want to know what you consider an argument.

If big boy words are too much for you maybe the politics forum isnt the right place for you.

 

[oldagerocker]

Political debates should be about informed opinion, not personal slanging matches. Nobody wants to read that.

Now, this should really get back ontopic.

 

[CptStern]

THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON STERN. HE IS THE ONE MAKING HIS ARGUMENT. ITS HIS JOB TO PROVE HE IS RIGHT. WHEN HE HAS DECENT EVIDENCE I WILL REPLY IN KIND. THANK YOU FOR THE LECTURE. :sigh: I'm not interested in your candy ass "proper" debating.

I've proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the US systematically destroyed Iraq's infrastructure leaving it in a preindustrial condition knowing full well that civilians would suffer as a result (particularily children) ..my documentation comes from YOUR government thru the freedom of information act ...if you want to disprove those documents go ahead

oh and you'd do well to heed oldagerocker's words. It's not healthy to be so angry at such a young age ...it'll give you an ulcer

 

[gh0st]

No, that document shows no proof of systematic distruction. Copy and paste from that article showing when and where we bombed their infrastructure. It might do you well to post a relevant news article as well.

 

[CptStern]

sigh .....do the work yourself: it's all there


http://www.scn.org/ccpi/NYTimesAhtisaari21Mar91.html

http://www.scn.org/ccpi/WashPostWarDamage23Jun91.html

http://www.scn.org/ccpi/NEJM-24sep92.html

http://www.scn.org/ccpi/infrastructure.html#hall_pr

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/apj/warden.html

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/cc/Rizer.html

http://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/peace-health/Resources/IraqWater.pdf

http://home.gwu.edu/~nagy/iwtv-ags.htm

http://www.progressive.org/0901/nagy0901.html

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/091700-01.htm

http://www.peacemagazine.org/archive/v20n4p16.htm

http://rwor.org/a/v23/1110-19/1119/iraq_water.htm

http://home.gwu.edu/~nagy/iwtv-ags.pdf

http://www.scn.org/ccpi/oilforfood.html#2





now provide proof it didnt happen, I want cross referenced documentation ...I'm waiting