alternative to death penalty?

[Eejit]

I'm all for the death penalty. They felt the need to kill somebody, they shouldn't get any rights to live. Plus, it will be cheaper for us! Less money to feed them!

If they are later exonerated they can be released from prison. They can't be resurrected from the dead.

Wrongful conviction for capital offenses are not at all unheard of unfortunately.

 

[CptStern]

At least 39 executions are claimed to have been carried out in the U.S. in the face of evidence of innocence or serious doubt about guilt

that's 39 too many

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution

 

[repiV]

Am I the only one that finds it more than slightly worrying that justice is in the hands of the most capable lawyer?

 

[Eejit]

Oh yes, that is far too often the case

An addition to that: the most capable lawyer is usually in the hands of the richer clients.

 

[CptStern]

Am I the only one that finds it more than slightly worrying that justice is in the hands of the most capable lawyer?

or more accurately that justice is in the hands of those who can afford the most capable lawyer ...the rest of us have to make do with newbs and the shitty ones who cant get into good firms

 

[repiV]

Indeed. And the prejudices of the jury of course. 12 Angry Men is a brilliant film if you haven't seen it.

I know it doesn't involve matters of such gravity, but the fixed penalty system ires me greatly. So you get a notice in the post accusing you of committing an offence which you may or may not remember committing, and they may or may not have evidence to prove it, but to find out, or to get a fair trial, you have to risk a far harsher punishment that you can't afford, for an insignificant "crime" in the first place.

I had a similar experience with the ****s at the DVLA recently. Long story short, their colossal administration **** ups which they are oh so famous for meant that my bike was untaxed even though I paid for it, got stopped by the police and given a fine for not displaying a tax disc (and filmed for Road Wars, to my great annoyance), and then months later I get a threatening letter from them demanding an out of court settlement (their equivalent of a fixed penalty notice) or else they will prosecute me for using an unlicensed vehicle on the road (so they get you twice for the same ****ing things, the ****s). I had no choice but to pay it even though it's their fault, whenever I called them up or went into the local office to get it rescinded the hired goons basically told me to **** off, and if I go to court (and represent myself) I risk having to pay hundreds of pounds.

I've since written to my MP and hope to get the money back from those scamming bastards and compensation for the cost of the fixed penalty. Point being, where is the justice? This system allows the state to bully people into submission with impunity because there is a huge risk involved in exercising your right to a fair trial. If everyone requested their day in court, the entire system of computer justice would collapse overnight.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

I had a similar problem with a speeding fine.
I did break the speed limit though so I just had to grit my teeth and pay it. According to the letter, I was travelling 58 in a 50 zone. It was near Rugby if I recall correctly. I'm sure it was a six lane road, but I might be mistaken in that.

I really disliked the wording of the letters I was sent and the way that they really do bully you into paying up. It's basically black mail. Pay us the money or we'll really screw you over.

I recall it saying that if I went to court (And lost) then they'd increase the fine to £1000 on top of having me pay the court fees. I did want to contest it, but there's just no way I could have come close to affording to.
The reason I wanted to contest it is because there were no lines on the road for the camera, it was a bend (Although only a gentle one I suppose) and the camera was facing me, so it took the pictures as I was driving towards it. I've since been told that that was legal, but at the time I was sure that it wasn't.

 

[15357]

An alternative to the death penalty:


Complete and total revocation of the convict's rights to property: Goverment/Victims get it all.
and then Life imprisonment, and hard labor of 14hr/day, possibly having the newly acquired "labor resource" be borrowed to corporations to help pay for the costs he has made society pay for his crimes.

 

[repiV]

I had a similar problem with a speeding fine.
I did break the speed limit though so I just had to grit my teeth and pay it. According to the letter, I was travelling 58 in a 50 zone. It was near Rugby if I recall correctly. I'm sure it was a six lane road, but I might be mistaken in that.

I really disliked the wording of the letters I was sent and the way that they really do bully you into paying up. It's basically black mail. Pay us the money or we'll really screw you over.

Yep. Over a matter so trivial no real copper would even be vaguely interested by it. And for a "crime" that everyone commits on a daily basis, including the bastards who profit from the speed camera and speed awareness course industry. If every "offence" were detected at the thresholds the scammers allow, most people would lose their license in a single journey.

The joke is the things cause accidents, and the message they imply (just drive within the speed limit and you'll be safe) is downright dangerous. They do their utmost best to censor anything that comes to light demonstrating their involvement in causing death and injury. All about safety, eh.

There was a video on the BBC supposedly demonstrating dangerous evil speeders captured by a speed camera van - what it actually showed was people panic braking when they see the van and losing control as a result. When this was drawn to their attention, they pulled the video and removed the news article completely.

I recall it saying that if I went to court (And lost) then they'd increase the fine to £1000 on top of having me pay the court fees. I did want to contest it, but there's just no way I could have come close to affording to.

Yeah, you wouldn't have got a £1000 fine for it but it would almost certainly have been higher than the FPN. And of course you have to pay a £15 "victim's surcharge" too, now where is the victim exactly?

If you come into this situation again, get some advice off the forums on pepipoo.com.

The reason I wanted to contest it is because there were no lines on the road for the camera, it was a bend (Although only a gentle one I suppose) and the camera was facing me, so it took the pictures as I was driving towards it. I've since been told that that was legal, but at the time I was sure that it wasn't.

The lines aren't needed, but the cameras are not type approved for using on bends. Was it a Gatso or a Truvelo? If it was a Gatso, they can't do you from the front but the Truvelos are designed that way.

 

[CptStern]

An alternative to the death penalty:


Complete and total revocation of the convict's rights to property: Goverment/Victims get it all.

so if a husband kills his wife, leaving behind children, the state gets it all and the children/relatives recieve diddly squat? you really have this whole totalitarian regime thing down pat dont you? you'll make a great soldier/government stooge

and then Life imprisonment, and hard labor of 14hr/day, possibly having the newly acquired "labor resource" be borrowed to corporations to help pay for the costs he has made society pay for his crimes.

so private corporations profit from the labor of convicted criminals? what a nice little handout with absolutely no involvement from the corporation whatsoever. like Pilate washing his hands on the whole nailing jebus on the cross affair. it's totalitarian capitalism at it's finest

 

[Saturos]

Genetic alteration research.

Or erase their minds and fit them with cybernetic implants to create a whole new generation of RoboCops.

There, not a drop of humanity wasted.

EDIT> I'm not joking either

 

[Eejit]

Watch moar bad sci-fi please Saturos.

 

[15357]

so if a husband kills his wife, leaving behind children, the state gets it all and the children/relatives recieve diddly squat?

Well, technically, the children are the family of the victim;

you really have this whole totalitarian regime thing down pat dont you? you'll make a great soldier/government stooge

Yep. I even have a name for the secret kidnap-people-in-the-middle-of-the-night-for-the-good-of-the-nation goverment organization.

so private corporations profit from the labor of convicted criminals? what a nice little handout with absolutely no involvement from the corporation whatsoever. like Pilate washing his hands on the whole nailing jebus on the cross affair. it's totalitarian capitalism at it's finest

Well, it should beat making car licence plates. I've contemplated donating/selling their organs (about $30,000 for kidney * 2, $50,000 for heart, $10,000 * 2 for eyes, etc. from what I hear) but that rather defeats the purpose of finding an alternative to the death penalty.

Also I had in mind having them clean the streets, but the chances of escape and people not reacting nicely to convicted murderers sweeping their streets did away with that notion.

Felons prolly would be good only for simple manual labor where they can be watched closely, so the costs of watching criminals and the profits they may bring might have to be carefully considered to decide where to use them. I suggest coal mines.





Of course, nothing inhumane - perhaps just a slight discomfort for them. After all, human rights are *snigger* important.

 

[CptStern]

Well, technically, the children are the family of the victim;

so you have no problem with this. your father can embexzzle the governemnt go to jail and your entire family's possessions/wealth is tranfered to the state and you, your mother, your siblings are thrown out the door. hopefully your mother will find employment before you all starve. which might be hard considering your family's repuattion has made you a pariah

Yep. I even have a name for the secret kidnap-people-in-the-middle-of-the-night-for-the-good-of-the-nation goverment organization.

Kim's Kommandos? Totalitarian Teens? Little Hitler's Fascist thugs?

Well, it should beat making car licence plates. I've contemplated donating/selling their organs (about $30,000 for kidney * 2, $50,000 for heart, $10,000 * 2 for eyes, etc. from what I hear) but that rather defeats the purpose of finding an alternative to the death penalty.

yes and oddly enough the only market for human organs is in your part of the world. where life is incredibly cheap and most people dont mean a heck of a lot ..besides spare parts for the wealthy ..you're a commodity

Also I had in mind having them clean the streets, but the chances of escape and people not reacting nicely to convicted murderers sweeping their streets did away with that notion.

Felons prolly would be good only for simple manual labor where they can be watched closely, so the costs of watching criminals and the profits they may bring might have to be carefully considered to decide where to use them. I suggest coal mines.





Of course, nothing inhumane - perhaps just a slight discomfort for them. After all, human rights are *snigger* important.

yes and it's always the oppresor who gets to decide how far human rights can go ..which is why things like torture, murder, rape, killing in the name of nationhood comes easily to you people.

 

[Survivr]

I'm just going to answer the title of this thread, even if I do believe they should bring back the death penalty.

I also think that they should use cartoon prisons as an example. Keep the prisoners in their cells all day and all night until they are released. Food slid underneath the door or through a hatch. No freedom at all. No contact with anyone apart from the guards and possibly the other people in your block. In my opinion that would be a fate worse than death that will punish the repeat offenders from... repeat offending.

The prison system (well, atleast in the UK) is very lax. TV's, comfy beds, time in the yard and allowed to wander throughout the blocks with relative freedom. Keeping everyone under a sort of social quarantine like solitary confinement or keeping them in their cells will help a few things, just off the top of my head it will help stop:
1) Gangs.
2) Riots.
3) Repeat offenders.
4) Murders and injuries sustained.
5) Drugs smuggling.

yes and oddly enough the only market for human organs is in your part of the world. where life is incredibly cheap and most people dont mean a heck of a lot ..besides spare parts for the wealthy ..you're a commodity

I'm not even Korean and I find this offensive. To be pedantic, any country where you pay for medical care or taxes has a human organ market. People donate organs, you buy them. Universities still buy organs for use, only through more legitimate ways than the grave-robbing off the 19th Century. Yes, people do DONATE organs to these places as well, but in many parts of the world organs are bought and sold.

 

[CptStern]

all governemnts should move towards totalitariam type treatment of it's citizens that break the law. they should lose all human rights and be subject to laws for non-humans, therefore they will be considered possessions ...and we're allowed to kill our possessions ...much like pets and barn animals. I mean no court is going to arrest you for flushing your goldfish down the toilet. so too should criminals be dealt with


the probelm is that some of you dont understand the basic concepts behind law much lessr the legal status humans have regardless if they've commited a crime or not. But, no, lets model our prison systrem after nations that have no respect for human rights: like china, north korea or hell one of those terrorist countries. they're perfect role models

 

[Saturos]

CptStern, every world leader out there, even Obama, cannot be ideologists if they want to herd the masses (this is what all politicians try to do) and having "human rights" is an ideologic belief.

If they say they they are humanitarian and a pacifist, they're either lying or making good use of political leverage over their constituencies. This only makes them opportunists though. It doesn't mean they actually believe in the choices they make.

I believe even America is what I'd call a "passive" dictatorship. No government is truly democratic. Human nature prevents democracy.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Dear world,

'Punishment' is idiotic. The protection of society - ie, the protection of liberties - is the only justifiable motive for taking action against those who restrict the liberty of others.

Sincerely,
me