Am I asking too much? (job offer/work term/internship)

[Baal]

I'll try to keep this clean and concise.

I am currently in the final month of my two-year college diploma IT program. My school requires a 10 week on the job work experience "work term" at the conclusion of your studies in order to earn your diploma. Or, alternatively, a co-op work term can be completed by the student in between the first and second year (during the summer), which nullifies the work term requirements.

I did the co-op last summer working for the Department of Justice, and therefore my work-term requirements for my school are completed. As of March 7, 2008, I have completely graduated from my school. I will be a college graduate looking for a full time, "permanent" position.

Now, this year, I entered an internship program offered by a company that operates an office in my city. Once a week, on my day with no classes, I would go to the office from 9-5 and listen to a two hour presentation about the inner workings of the company and then do any work they wanted me to do. I've never shown up late, haven't missed a single day all year. I've been perfect. All of this is un-paid.

Now, this program involved 9 others from my school, two of which who dropped out. The program ends this month, offering a work term to all of the interns who complete it. However, this is mainly because most of us do require work terms to be completed due to our school's work term policy - I do not.

I told them this in early December that I would like to have a full time position, and it appeared that they would be able to accommodate this. Two weeks later they said "we're going to continue with the work-term arrangements." I said fine, because it's still a job (mind you, half the normal pay, no benefits, etc, but whatever). Then, last week, one of the recruiters and head of the program claimed that "it looks like you will be working with *enter team group name here* and it will be full-time" (which to me, implies a full-time permanent position). So, I was understandably excited, until this week I went in to confirm this, because of the emotional roller coaster this has been and I would not be surprised if things changed, and they said "no, it's a 10 week work term"

At this point I am quite frustrated, because I feel as if I'm being taken advantage of. I understand I am a relatively inexperienced student being hired, but if it were not for this internship, any other junior employees they would be hiring would not settle for a $10-12 an hour position. But not only do I offer more than most college graduates due to my on the job experience, I have also technically worked at this company since September, and probably know more than the average employee due to the weekly presentations.

Should I really be getting uptight about this? Or am I really entitled to more than what I am being offered and I am getting screwed over?

Anyone have similar stories of graduating and getting job offers/work terms?

edit: I have an e-mail typed up that I plan to send to the person in charge of my destiny. I may post it depending on the responses here for some critiquing.

 

[CptStern]

they're taking advantage ...I think ..they know the position isnt to fullfill school requirements, right? if so they're taking advantage IF other junior positions are paid more. Often companies will take out work co-ops because it's cheap labor for them AND the students are a dime a dozen ..there's always someone else willing to do the job ..BUT and this is a big BUT, what's the job market like in your area? could you look for something else? Dont burn any bridges, you could use your experience as a stepping stone to something better AND they could be used as a job reference ..being irate and firing them off an angry letter isnt professional and will do far more harm than good ..you need this for your resume

that said, look for something else or try to negotiate ..if you're an assest to the company they will bend over backwards to accomodate you ..you can say "ok I accept the terms but I want a jsalary review in x amount of months" ..if you do accept it for the 10 weeks spend every free minute searching for other work

 

[Baal]

I'm pretty sure I could get hired on with another company as soon as I send my resume (I have one in mind). I never planned to burn the bridge though. Here's what my e-mail looks like:

Hi Elaine,

Is there any chance you could reconsider my position in regards to a job offer or work term?

I was under the impression, after talking to you last week, I was going to be offered a full time position after the completion of my internship, but that seems to be no longer the case. Perhaps there are some bureaucratic hurdles needing to be jumped that I am not aware of, but it seems a little strange given the circumstances. After my work with the Department of Justice over this past summer, my work term requirements as far as my school is concerned are completed, so for me to do a two month or more work term is not something I am (hopefully understandably) completely happy with. If I were a student in between first and second year, that would be different, but I will be a college graduate looking for a full time position after the conclusion of my academic year. I am just trying to not sell myself short.

I hope I am not appearing ungrateful for this opportunity with FBI, or I am not completely happy otherwise. I am truly enjoying my time here, both as an intern (meeting with you and the other interns, the presentations, etc.) and as a member of Cosmo Kramer’s FOIPOP team. I believe I am more than capable of being a valued asset to his, or any other FOIPOP team I am assigned to, given my drive for knowledge and past experiences doing support work and customer service. I am very interested in learning more than I have already learned about the FOIPOP as a whole, in addition to the invidividual applications that are being supported by FBI.

If we could meet once again in person to hear your thoughts, one way or the other, I would appreciate it.

Jerry

names altered, of course. I did not send it yet, and I don't know if I will.

 

[CptStern]

the letter is pc enough ..I dont know what relationship you have with "elaine" but a

"I was looking for a paid fulltime job, thanks but no thanks"

might be enough ..again I dont want to tell you what to do because I dont know your work dynamics or your standing at the company

stall accepting the position and send in your resumes ..and not to just that one company ..companies dont always hire on a whim, most often they hire to fill a vacant position ..mass email your resume, cold call businesses and ask to talk to human resources, ask about the company and their hiring practices ..sometimes they may invite you to see for yoursel ..it's a good way to get your foot in the door

 

[Baal]

My school already has an in with the other company I had in mind. A representative came to our school to talk to us yesterday. I have a marketing dude's direct e-mail. They're also direct competitors with my current company, and they headhunt a lot. I'll need to find out if I can even legally apply or not though...I forget the terms of my internship, but I seem to recall something about a waiting period between working for a competing company.

Thanks for your thoughts, you've given me some things to think about. Anyone else feel free to chime in.

 

[CptStern]

also dont forget that short term contracts are a good way for companies to test out their employees suitability ..plus not paying benefits is a real incentive

 

[Baal]

also dont forget that short term contracts are a good way for companies to test out their employees suitability ..plus not paying benefits is a real incentive

Yea, screw it. I'm just gonna go with the flow and bite the bullet. It sucks and I feel it is unfair and they're taking advantage of the system, but whatever. Technically I DID agree to these terms.

Thanks

 

[Baal]

So I ended up sending a much nicer e-mail, just simply stating that I was curious as to why thechange from permanent position to work term, and I got a perfect explanation as to why. Bureaucratic crap but it still makes sense. Thanks for talking me out of my angered state

 

[phantomdesign]

Are they taking advantage of you? YES
--------------
This business has a partnership with your school, which gives them a continuous and large supply of exploitable workers; who are basically REQUIRED by the school to be repeatedly anally raped. With an endless supply of slave labor, why pay market value? Based on these facts, this company will never make you a decent offer. You’re still in school-mentality-mode, or a dependent mentality, where you allow yourself to succumb to silly arbitrary rules, trivializing yourself to a worker, a mere employee, laborer, someone to fill a warm seat an expect a paycheck based on a pay scale chart that you have absolutely no control over. These vague definitions of “work types” are pure undeniable evidence that they are indeed taking advantage of you. Fortunately that’s not how the world works.

Whenever I interview for a job, freelance work, consulting, or any sort of business, I’m very quick to squash the concept of me as a mere laborer. I am not a person who does his 9-5, 5 days a week, completing some boring task, waiting for my shift to be over, and then going home, expecting a paycheck every Friday as another faceless worker, a replaceable or disposable cog in their machine. I offer a valuable service, one which will generate returns many times greater than any compensation I receive; a mutually beneficial business partnership that respects (1) the customer (2) the client/employeer/business and (3) me. Any company that refuses to respect you as a “valuable business parent” and trivializes you as an employee will NEVER advance your career, beyond a little experience you can slap on your resume.

P.S. The only person in charge of your destiny is you.

also dont forget that short term contracts are a good way for companies to test out their employees suitability ..plus not paying benefits is a real incentive

Generally short-term contracts are AWESOME because you get to step in the door as low-risk to the company, meaning you can actually get in there. You prove yourself, and at the end of the term, hopefully you've shown them that they HAVE TO hire you fill time, and can negotiate a higher salary that they were originally thinking.

But since he's already been with the company, short-term contracts are BULLSHIT.

 

[phantomdesign]

Hi Elaine,

Is there any chance you could reconsider my position in regards to a job offer or work term?

I was under the impression, after talking to you last week, I was going to be offered a full time position after the completion of my internship, but that seems to be no longer the case. Perhaps there are some bureaucratic hurdles needing to be jumped that I am not aware of, but it seems a little strange given the circumstances. After my work with the Department of Justice over this past summer, my work term requirements as far as my school is concerned are completed, so for me to do a two month or more work term is not something I am (hopefully understandably) completely happy with. If I were a student in between first and second year, that would be different, but I will be a college graduate looking for a full time position after the conclusion of my academic year. I am just trying to not sell myself short.

I hope I am not appearing ungrateful for this opportunity with FBI, or I am not completely happy otherwise. I am truly enjoying my time here, both as an intern (meeting with you and the other interns, the presentations, etc.) and as a member of Cosmo Kramer?s FOIPOP team. I believe I am more than capable of being a valued asset to his, or any other FOIPOP team I am assigned to, given my drive for knowledge and past experiences doing support work and customer service. I am very interested in learning more than I have already learned about the FOIPOP as a whole, in addition to the invidividual applications that are being supported by FBI.

If we could meet once again in person to hear your thoughts, one way or the other, I would appreciate it.

Jerry

BAD BAD BAD

• Is there any chance
• I hope?
• I believe
• I am very interested
• I would appreciate
• perhaps
• I am just
• hear your thought, one way or another
• ungrateful

These are all VERY WEAK statements, showing that you are indeed dependent on them, and essentially begging "pwease, may I haz a waize!" They see someone they can take advantage of, someone who would be happy with a mere slight increase in table-scraps.

• There is no "chance we could discuss this" as it's unacceptable
• You do not appreciate table scraps, you require respect.
• You do not "perhaps" or "hope", you demand.
• You do not "I am just" you merely state directly.
• You do not "hear your thoughts one way or another" as you're not a weakling. You have just presented a counter-offer at face value, which if they defy will make you uncomfortable with the deal.
• You are never grateful, you have nothing to be grateful for at any company, even more so here as internships are not opportunities, but rather anal rape. You want a mutually benefical relationship, where your work produces a profit for them, and you are compensated appropriately. They should be grateful you interned there.

You need to diplomatically say that you're valuable, the offer on the table is unacceptable, and you'd like to discuss a better alternative . . . like below.

Hi Elaine,

As an intern at [company] for the last [time period], I have proven myself as a valuable member of this company. During my time here, I have accomplished [1], [2] , and [3]. I highly recommend talking to my supervisor(2), [names], and coworkers [names], as they will attest to my contributions to this company.

In [month] 2008, I will be a graduate with a degree in [degree], and [time period] workplace experience, seeking a full time job. Unfortunately, your current offer on the table does not meet my requirements, and I would like to meet you in person to discuss alternatives that would benefit both [company] and myself.

Best Wishes,
Jerry

 

[Dan]

don't forget to fill in the numbers

 

[Baal]

hahaha, I appreciate the advice, but where do you draw the line in being too demanding/aggressive vs too wishy-washy/passive? I sent my "I'm curious as to why..." e-mail and got a fair response, so I'm satisfied with that thus far

I'm gonna ride it out - I did send my resume to another company, and I'll see what they have to offer. I prefer the location of my current employer though...the commute downtown and parking would suck at the other place :|