An appeal to 9/11 conspiracy theorists

[_Z_Ryuken]

So now you're saying the building plausibly spontaneously collapsed without any plane or bomb, just out of pure construction errors?

Goddamn.

I just PMed this to you, but for the sake of fixing you twisting what I say around to your own advantage, I am merely stating there are multiple unexplored possibilities. Nothing more.

 

[DeusExMachina]

I think you're all dumb tbh imho.

 

[Yuri]

Fact: ZRUKEN COW PLOY MASCOT makes no goddamn sense, ever.

You keep saying "SOMETHING ELSE MAY HAVE DONE IT BESIDES THE PLANE!"

"I NEVER SAID IT WAS A BOMB!"

What, was it a cow? Oh wait, those don't exist.

"THERE ARE MULTIPLE UNEXPLORED POSSIBILITIES!"

Actually, there is an infinite amount of unexplored possibilities, if you want to think like a goddamn f*cking moron.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

Fact: ZRUKEN COW PLOY MASCOT makes no goddamn sense, ever.

You keep saying "SOMETHING ELSE MAY HAVE DONE IT BESIDES THE PLANE!"

"I NEVER SAID IT WAS A BOMB!"

What, was it a cow? Oh wait, those don't exist.

"THERE ARE MULTIPLE UNEXPLORED POSSIBILITIES!"

Actually, there is an infinite amount of unexplored possibilities, if you want to think like a goddamn f*cking moron.

Insults will get you nowhere, and make you look ugly.

Ugly.

/potkettleblack

 

[Yuri]

Throwing baseless accusations make you look stupid and full of shit, and are also offensive toward me and victims of the 9/11 attack.

I try to never insult people based on political opinions. You don't have political opinions, you're just an attention seeking lying bastard.


On top of that, you've yet to make any sense of have any credibility.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

The one thing ZRYUKEN is useful for is free COW PLOY advertisement.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

Throwing baseless accusations make you look stupid and full of shit, and are also offensive toward me and victims of the 9/11 attack.
I try to never insult people based on political opinions. You don't have political opinions, you're just an attention seeking lying bastard.
On top of that, you've yet to make any sense of have any credibility.

So now you are the sole spokesperson for 3000 dead people?

Do these people also think I am an attention seeking lying bastard or is that your opinion alone?

Can you cite some sources stating this opinion as fact?

Is this a fact because I choose not to reveal my political opinions?

Now who is making baseless accusations.

I invoke my previous pot calling kettle black comment.

The one thing ZRYUKEN is useful for is free COW PLOY advertisement.

Trust me you are paying for it, you just don't realize how.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Z_RYUKEN!

I have a proposition for you:

This is the challenge:
-You post your full 9/11 theory, without ommisions, being logical to the best of your ability.
-I will logically refute it to the best of my ability.
-You may then check my work.

-For each lie, falsehood and fallacy, the incorrect party agrees to be warned by the moderators.

-Too many warnings, and the incorrect party is banned.

This will take place in an open thread, protected by moderators.

If I am banned, you win the 10 000 by default, and you will never encounter me again.

Do you agree?

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

Haha, it's a win/win situation! For me!

adlfadljh xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!

I literally laugh out loud upon reading this.

Ok. This sounds fair. You are quite confident, dare I say arrogant, even though I never once stated my theory on what happened because I keep saying there is not enough evidence to fully support a credible theory that is not full of holes.
Hence, I have no theory nor do I believe any curent theory to it's fullest extent.

I'll write something up so be ready and start stuffing that Monopoly money into some envelopes.

xDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!

So how many warnings is "too many"?

Any time limit? With my router down it will take time to gather my resources.

Have you read over my Pms from 3 weeks ago and spent all this time "refuting" it?

How badly do you want me banned?

omglolbbqspaz

Honestly I was getting pretty sick of people coming back and back again with the retorts and shameful comments so if there could be and end all to this I would like to help it come about by any means possible, especially if it means I or my rival may be banned from this place.

Are you sure you can do this? I find it hard to swallow you believe everything you say to me, everything you reciprocate as if it is fact when you twist and contrive my words into things I have never said.

Are you really ready for a serious engagement? This has been nothing but a joke so far, albeit a very frusterating, troubling, somewhat angering joke, but half-hearted on my part nonetheless.

Give me your unwavering committment that you will uphold all semblance of truth for the sake of unabashed science and fact as there is no place for bias, inconsistency, assumption of character, or outright decharacterization thereof. Pledge your your pride as master of propaganda and swear on your honor to make every attempt of fair play and dignity involving all parties.

Make me believe this wouldn't be a complete and utter waste of my time, my personal, deserved time of rest that may be spent for the sole purpose of upholding my own credibility on a forum that means almost nothing to me.

Show me you aren't a living spoof, a silly baboon, or intellectual forum troll in your most sincere of words.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I have no theory

Wrong. Your theory, as you have repeatedly stated, is that the "official" story is full of holes and therefore not credible.

I seek to refute your claims regarding this theory.

For the time being, COW PLOY CONTEST is on hiatus.

I am currently in discussion with moderators concerning the extent of the challenge.

When it begins, it will be in a thread titled "it ends here" and full rules will be posted.

 

[Some_God]

A conspiracy theory attempts to explain the cause of an event as a secret, and often deceptive, plot by a covert alliance rather than as an overt activity or as natural occurrence.

I win the debate!

 

[Ikerous]

A conspiracy theory attempts to explain the cause of an event as a secret, and often deceptive, plot by a covert alliance rather than as an overt activity or as natural occurrence.

I win the debate!

A conspiracy theory is any idea i dont agree with.

 

[Raeven0]

"You don't fully, completely, and universally accept all of the published ideas, therefore you are a conspiracy theorist, a moron, and wrong, which are all the same anyway."

I'm not sure I understand the logic there, but okay.

Yes, enough about Nineleven. Let's try another topic. How about my hands? I'm told they're very girly. Could the government be responsible?

 

[DeusExMachina]

My hands are quite soft.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

Wrong. Your theory, as you have repeatedly stated, is that the "official" story is full of holes and therefore not credible.

I seek to refute your claims regarding this theory.

For the time being, COW PLOY CONTEST is on hiatus.

I am currently in discussion with moderators concerning the extent of the challenge.

When it begins, it will be in a thread titled "it ends here" and full rules will be posted.

Ok I thought you were asking for my theory on the collapse, but you want me to exlpain why I believe the NIST report is crap. OK that's easy enough.

MY problem is I think you will continue doing what you have been doing, which is essentially character assassination. If anything I say is taken out of context, skewed, not fully quoted, quoted out of order, altered under assumption, presented as assumption, withheld, ignored, misplaced, or generally not restated verbatim then the deal is off.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Oh, so you do have a theory now?
Well, I'm afraid that's going in.

I forget where exactly I did any of those laundry-listed crimes against your noble and fragile character, madam.

 

[Lemonking]

Throwing baseless accusations make you look stupid and full of shit, and are also offensive toward me and victims of the 9/11 attack.

I try to never insult people based on political opinions. You don't have political opinions, you're just an attention seeking lying bastard.


On top of that, you've yet to make any sense of have any credibility.

and you are a penis with legs.

 

[Yuri]

Eh?

Just go away Lemonking. The adults are having a conversation. Shouldn't you be bandaging up your wang anyway?

 

[Lemonking]

you go around the forums calling everybody names,it proves the mods have a bias.also you cannot construct a good arguement all you do is HATE HATE HATE.

 

[Yuri]

Why you aren't banned is the more interesting note. Why you were unbanned in the first place is even more interesting.

I respect Holocaust Deniers even less than I respect 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists. Both recieve what they deserve-- no respect whatsoever.

 

[Lemonking]

I couldnt care less even if your mom had no respect for me.

 

[Yuri]

Uhm, my point wasn't to degrade to senseless "your mom" jokes, my point was that I only make offensive comments to those who truely deserve it, and deserve no respect.

But thanks for the half-assed, immature, and ridiculously entertaining comeback!

 

[Lemonking]

right back at you. I wonder hwo keeps calling people assholses and such

 

[GiaOmerta]

Correction: "your momma jokes"

Please be viglant not to make futher mistakes with such material. As for conspiracy theories. Bah. People need to grow up. Waste of time and material building these fairy tales. What's important is that nothing like this ever happens again.

 

[Yuri]

I apologize for the mistake in terminology, GiaOmerta. It won't happen again.

And Lemonking... right back at me what? I'm not the one cracking "your momma" jokes...

I'll say it one more time: I admit that I am openly insulting people, but I only do it because these people have a blatent disregard for the loss of human life and as a result deserve no respect.

 

[Ikerous]

I only do it because these people have a blatent disregard for the loss of human life and as a result deserve no respect.

Just because someone buys into a propaganda film doesn't mean that they care any less about the people that died. It just means they buy into lame internet videos
Hardly something to lose respect over

 

[Glirk Dient]

Wow...now I see why infomertials are so popular. Anyone wanna buy my magical plastic ring of good luck +10? For only $5 and I will even throw in a tin foil hat of scalar wave resistance +5.

 

[kirovman]

ya ...probably why I never post in the 9/11 threads ...there just isnt enough for me to make a compelling argument ...besides I prefer real world conspiracies cuz in my experience the powers that be NEVER cover their tracks ..they always make stupid transparent mistakes and are usually exposed because of something incredibly simple

Like the clearly visible lightning strike from the Tesla Howitzer before the plane hit the building? :O





...I kid, I kid.

 

[dream431ca]

Come on guys, we all know Saddam had stealth technology. He used it on his bombs, but he forgot where he put them.

 

[Yuri]

Just because someone buys into a propaganda film doesn't mean that they care any less about the people that died. It just means they buy into lame internet videos
Hardly something to lose respect over

I'm not saying they don't care about the victims, but I'm saying that this propagandous bullshit is offensive towards them.

You die, and everybody says "The gov'ment did it cuz they wants OILZ!!" Your family pays taxes to the government and abides by its rules. Common sense tells us that this isn't true. So, effectively, there's a big joke about 9/11. LOL BUSH DID IT! Yeah, over 3,000 people died. Profitting off of lies is a scumbag thing to do, and buying into it and further spreading the lies makes you an asshole, becuase it subjects this dumb shit to the victims. That's why I find it offensive.

 

[jverne]

Your family pays taxes to the government and abides by its rules. Common sense tells us that this isn't true.

hahaha

what a lame argument!


with the insurance policy of the WTC complex, they could buy your parents, you ,your children, their children and their grand children,...
for alomst every fammily of the 3000 dead!

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

see solaris that's where you are wrong!

they maybe fantastic, but were they constructive, did somebody really changed it's mind? name one!

i for one did change my mind after "i was proven wrong"! my argument was based on a pure fact that is why it was so easy! that is called constructive debate! something changed (for the better possibly)!

now look at some other debates here...they maybe entertaining but when all is finished everybody goes back home the way they came!

the only person that is really trying to use "facts" would be stern! everyone else just bases their arguments on opinions and assumptions!

you guys really need to sort it out!

The very fact that people are debating these issues is progress. We may agree or disagree and not get anywhere, however atleast world issues are of importance in this forum. What are you suggesting? that we just give up and let the world fall apart because it's useless argueing? Thats the kind of attitude that will cause the world to fall apart. I hate this kind of cynicm. It really doesn't help anyone.

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

I'm not saying they don't care about the victims, but I'm saying that this propagandous bullshit is offensive towards them.

You die, and everybody says "The gov'ment did it cuz they wants OILZ!!" Your family pays taxes to the government and abides by its rules. Common sense tells us that this isn't true. So, effectively, there's a big joke about 9/11. LOL BUSH DID IT! Yeah, over 3,000 people died. Profitting off of lies is a scumbag thing to do, and buying into it and further spreading the lies makes you an asshole, becuase it subjects this dumb shit to the victims. That's why I find it offensive.

Exactly how is it that I am profiting by beleiving that the original 9/11 story is flawed? And given that I am not profiting off of the victims, exactly how is it I am insulting them? I would think that my questioning of the original version of events is something that would honour the victims as the possibily of the truth about who was responsible for their deaths why this happened would have a chance of becoming revealed.

And if you think that the Bush administration hasnt profited off lies before....ohh boy.

Quite frankly, I think that any conspiracy theory that makes america look bad is a worthy one.

 

[kirovman]

Quite frankly, I think that any conspiracy theory that makes america look bad is a worthy one.

Even if it's a complete lie?

 

[Yuri]

hahaha

what a lame argument!


with the insurance policy of the WTC complex, they could buy your parents, you ,your children, their children and their grand children,...
for alomst every fammily of the 3000 dead!

Peh, you're accusing me of a lame argument? What have you possibly contributed to this thread besides "PROVE THIS WRONG!" *it is proven wrong* "OKAY LOL" :| Here, let me be even more blunt with what I'm trying to say.

My argument wasn't at all that because we pay taxes and follow the laws of a government, we should not believe that they conspire, but that a proposed conspiracy theory should at least make some f*cking sense before accusing the said government. Accusing the government just becauseyou *can* is a shitty thing to do, especially if it mocks the deaths of thousands.

I don't think you understand me at all so please avoid responding to me in the future. Thanks.

Exactly how is it that I am profiting by beleiving that the original 9/11 story is flawed? And given that I am not profiting off of the victims, exactly how is it I am insulting them? I would think that my questioning of the original version of events is something that would honour the victims as the possibily of the truth about who was responsible for their deaths why this happened would have a chance of becoming revealed.

And if you think that the Bush administration hasnt profited off lies before....ohh boy.

Quite frankly, I think that any conspiracy theory that makes america look bad is a worthy one.

I love how your last statement just completely ruins any credibility you could possibly have. As kirov said: Even if its a bunch of bullshit lies? "As long as it makes America look bad!" Yeah, you're a real "rebel." :hmph:

Please read my post again. I didn't say you were profiting off of it. I was saying piss-shit asshole scumbags were. And people like you buy into this shit, and you let them profit off of it further by believing it and propogating it.

It's not honorable to stive to make people believe that their families were killed by the government that is in control, just for some money. Its actually quite offensive. Its offensive because your proof is completely random and out of the blue, and has no backing other than to profit off of lies and try to act like a "cool rebellious truthseeker!" Its not a f*cking mystery, either. We already know who f*cking attacked. There is no evidence that supports otherwise. So making shit up is offensive, dishonorable, and just a plain shitty thing to do.



You both get C-'s for reading comprehension.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Exactly how is it that I am profiting by beleiving that the original 9/11 story is flawed?

Wait, how much 'profit' do we get if we believe compounding headachely like lies? Now ... that sounds like a conspiracy!

 

[B_MAN]

SHUT UP ALREADY!

no seriously guys you're doing far more harm than good. Stop looking to 9/11 as a massive conspiracy. There's a far more important and very real conspiracy that you guys completely overlook: the Iraq war. The US manufactured evidence and justified the invasion of iraq based on information they pulled out of the thin air. Yet it's almost completely ignrored by the mainstream media and average americans ..no, they would rather choose to believe that there's something big and sinister behind this ..but if you actually research the justifications behind the war it's painfully clear that it's far more simplistic than that ...they didnt bother to cover their tracks all that well because they knew the american public wouldnt care all that much ..and they were right

so stop at looking at the inplausible ..start looking at what's really there ..it's not disguised missles or pixel by pixel analysis of grainy shakey cam video ..it's far easier for anyone to see ..if you just took the time to sift through it, and it's far more compelling than any silly conspiracy to slam airplanes into buildings

first of all, you need to WAKE UP
the iraq war and 9/11 are directly related: the US has justified an attack on iraq based on the so-called "WAR ON TERRORISM"... a term that has been thrown at us again and again ever since the events of 9/11 by... you guessed it.. the bush administration & THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA (government regulated)
they have succeeded in controlling the majority of the american people by creating an illusion based on FEAR... praying on the angry and the ignorant..... theyre saying, 'hey, dont worry, we're gonna take the fight to their doorstep, those dirty terrorists! theyre gonna pay for what they did to us on 9/11!'
you're doing a disservice to yourself and your countrymen by claiming simplicity in all this, CPT

im sure many of you have had a chance to watch the "Loose Change" documentary on the curious events leading up to and following 9/11
however, for those of you who havent, i HIGHLY recommend that you watch it in its ENTIRETY before finalizing your opinion
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848&q=loose+change&pl=true

 

[CptStern]

first of all, you need to WAKE UP
the iraq war and 9/11 are directly related: the US has justified an attack on iraq based on the so-called "WAR ON TERRORISM"... a term that has been thrown at us again and again ever since the events of 9/11 by... you guessed it.. the bush administration & THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA (government regulated)
they have succeeded in controlling the majority of the american people by creating an illusion based on FEAR... praying on the angry and the ignorant..... theyre saying, 'hey, dont worry, we're gonna take the fight to their doorstep, those dirty terrorists! theyre gonna pay for what they did to us on 9/11!'
you're doing a disservice to yourself and your countrymen by claiming simplicity in all this, CPT

im sure many of you have had a chance to watch the "Loose Change" documentary on the curious events leading up to and following 9/11
however, for those of you who havent, i HIGHLY recommend that you watch it in its ENTIRETY before finalizing your opinion
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848&q=loose+change&pl=true

I need to wake up? I (arguably) know more about the motives behind the war than any of you

give me facts not ominous sounding narrative over grainy video that could be whatever the hell the viewer imagines it to be. I want cold hard facts before I start accusing an administration of calculated murder ..you people are so foolish as to belive 3000 dead americans has more important than the fact that 100,000 + Iraqis died due of a REAL conspiracy

 

[B_MAN]

I need to wake up? I (arguably) know more about the motives behind the war than any of you

give me facts not ominous sounding narrative over grainy video that could be whatever the hell the viewer imagines it to be. I want cold hard facts before I start accusing an administration of calculated murder ..you people are so foolish as to belive 3000 dead americans has more important than the fact that 100,000 + Iraqis died due of a REAL conspiracy

facts? you need facts? havent you seen Loose Change? what else do you need? there's much more than just grainy footage.. there's also testimonials from many experts on the collapse of the buildings, including #7 which had barely been damaged at all, the 'coincidental' purchase and insurance of the WTC buildingns, and its subsequent 3.2 billion payoff, the inexplicable low damage of the pentagon, the missing bodies from flight 93... i mean THE LIST GOES ON AND ON

also, im not at all saying that the death of thousands of americans(and other nations) is any more important than the deaths of iraq civilians.. they are both tragic
im just trying to point out the relation between the two..
the occupation by the USA(and the so-called coalition) is an abuse of power IMO... i dont think anyone will argue that hussein is not a terrible, sadistic leader, however, it is not up to america to clean things up there... that SHOULD be the job of the UN.. the only reason they havent been charged for warcrimes is because theyre arguably the most powerful and influential nation in the world still
besides, who the hell actually believes that they're there to rid the country of terrorism and an authoritarian leader, 'capable of unleashing weapons of mass destruction'??? thats all just a front for their hidden agenda: OIL

 

[baxter]

You want to debate facts come on then lets debate facts....

For those people that understand the principle of Physics I apologies, for those that don’t let me explain the difference between a static load and a dynamic load. I will explain in layman’s terms.

If you were to go into your garden right now and find a sizable rock, I don’t know something in the region of 20lb should do, and place it on top of your head. The rock would be heavy and would hurt but you should be able to support it, because it is a static load. Next get one of your mates to climb a ladder with said rock and drop it, say 10 feet onto your head, the chances are that your skull would get shoved in, this because it is has been hit by a dynamic load. Please note the same rock by shifting from static to dynamic cause’s two completely different outcomes.

Applying this to the towers. I will look at WTC 1. This was hit between floors 92 and 98. It had 110 floors. Therefore above the crash site were some 12 floors. It was 1368 feet tall and weighted approx 500,000 ton

http://www.edgehill.ac.uk/gber/pdf/vol2/issue1/Two.pdf

So from this each floor occupied 1368/110 which is approx 12.5 feet.

500,000/110 means that each floor weighed approx 4545 tons. (I’ll round this down to 4000).

(Please also note this does not include the weight of all the machinery that was on these floors)

Above the crash site was appox 12 floors which equals 48 thousand ton. This load was static. The building was designed and built to support the static loads of the floors above each other

After the plane crash and fire, all it would have taken was for one of the floors to collapse for this massive weight to become dynamic. Please try to picture this, remember the garden rock. Please try to imagine 48 thousand ton suddenly dropping 12 feet. (Please note also that this does not even include the weight of the antenna).If my figures are wrong, half it and imagine 24 thousand tons or even 10 thousand tons. Image a thousand tons if you wish. Can anybody honestly imagine that the floor underneath would support this dynamic load? No of course it couldn’t. The load simply juggernauted though this floor and continued down until it hit the next floor. But at this point the weight had increase by the addition of the first floor it hit, a further 4000 tons.

Irrespective of my figures which I know could be wrong, what is not wrong is that by the time this dynamic weight went through 12 floors it would have doubled in weight. Another further 24 floors and it would have doubled again, in effect it would now be four times its original weight. This weight was not constant it was getting heavier the further down the Tower it went. Is it any surprise then that this weight acting under the force of gravity would bring the tower down very fast? i.e. close to free fall speed. It was a Hugh, accelerating weight which was increasing in mass, with no where to go but down as fast as it could.

By the time it reached half way down the Tower the weight hurtling down would have been close to 250,000 tons and it would make sense that it was accelerating. Can anybody honestly imagine anything would stop it? No, since the towers were 95% air, the only thing that stopped it was the ground.

(I understand that people will doubt my calculated weights so I’d like to look at this from another angle. In WTC 1 if the collapse started above floor 98 that would mean there was 12 floors of the tower travelling down. That is aprox 1/10 the height of the building which is 130 feet. I really don’t know what 130 feet of steel and concrete would weigh or whether it would weigh in at 48 thousand tons but it is safe to assume it was very heavy.)

Explosives did not bring down this building; there was no need for explosives. Once the massive weight became dynamic the building simply imploded under this massive weight and stresses it was not designed to take.

Do the maths for WTC 2 yourselves the plane hit on the 80th floor

The above is simply the pancake theory. Am I qualified to say whether it is correct? No of course not. Would I be able to say it is plausible? I can say with 100% certainty it is far more plausible than the controlled demolition theory.

For the pancake theory to work it relies on one single event happening. This event was witnessed by millions, it being that a single floor suffered catastrophic failure and the massive load above became dynamic. The only debate here is whether the damage from the planes, the fires or a combination of the two caused it to happen.
For the controlled demolition theory to work it would have to rely on hundreds, if not thousands of unproved, unseen events.

I would ask anybody who does not agree with the pancake theory to offer up an alternative. Say where the explosives were placed, what effects they had on things like the core and the floor trusses. State why the demolition started at precisely the point where the planes hit. Also explain how explosive devices placed on the 92nd floor of WTC 1 and the 80th floor of WTC 2 survived the plane crash and fires. If the demolition started below these floors explain the precise timings involved to detonate these devices precisely when the collapse started. Also explain why explosives that were powerful enough to bring down a 500,000 ton steel and concrete building did not split the buildings anywhere else other than at the damaged floors.

State how the addition of explosives would contribute to the alleged molten steel that was observed. Say how much explosives were used and why you think it would contribute to the pulverisation of the concrete and why the pancake theory would not produce these results. Use you own logic and common sense and do not regurgitate conspiracy sites.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/NISTNCSTAR1-3Draft.pdf

Here is an draft report from 2005 from NIST. Go to pages 95, throught to 100 and view the sagging and bowing of the building prior to total collapse, then pages 109, 110, 112 and finally go to pages 115 to 117. they show clearly the buildings seconds before they colasped.

Don't believe facts, don't want to believe photographhic eveidence ,of course not. Prefer to believe the towers feel at freefall, they didn't.Prefer to believe that WTC 7 wasn't damaged, it was. Prefer to believe that the Pentegon was hit by a missile, it wasn't. Prefer to believe that no other steel frame building has even suffered a cllospe due to fire, one at least as.

I'll debate facts with you or another ghoul or idiot that propagates this garbage because I sick to death of rubbish like this propagating internet forums.

Make up your own minds. The reason I took the time to look at these claims is because they are an insult to the people who died, the families who lost loved ones and the emergency services who did all they could to help, many of whom paid the ultimate price.

Shame on anybody who believes these conspiracies and tries to make out humanity has sunk to such depths that anybody would consider that the Towers were brought down by anything other than the worst terrorist attack ever.