Anti-aliasing

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Gabe Newell

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Since people seem to be hyperventilating over the anti-aliasing issue, I thought I'd update everyone.

1) How bad is the problem?

With current multi-sample implementations of anti-aliasing, you may sample texels outside of the polygon boundary, which may result in sampling light maps from other polygons.

This has always been a problem. This is a problem with Quake 1, Quake 2, Quake 3, Daikatana, Sin, Elite Force, Half-Life, Counter-Strike on the X-Box, or any game that uses packed lightmaps with multi-sample anti-aliasing.

You would see these artifacts on polygon boundaries where the wrong lightmap is being sampled. It will look like a bright or dark line on the edge of a polygon.

Gary McTaggart brought this up in an email because he is being pretty hardcore about graphics quality right now. This is not a new problem. If you've run a game that uses lightmaps with anti-aliasing turned on, then you've been seeing these artifacts the whole time.

Artifacts may show up more frequently in Half-Life 2 simply because we've eliminated lots of other artifacts, and because we have a lot of variation in scene lighting due to our art direction.

To put this in perspective, not doing tri-linear filtering on mipmaps is a lot worse.

2) What are potential solutions?
  • Support Centroid Sampling
  • Use Pixel Shaders to Clamp Texture Coordinates
Centroid sampling doesn't have the problem that center sampling does in multi-sample antil-aliasing. ATI has supported this form of anti-aliasing for the 9000 series. The tricky part is enabling this when DirectX doesn't easily expose this.

There's a different trick you can use with hardware, such as NVIDIA's, that doesn't support centroid sampling. Basically you trade off some pixel shader bandwidth to clamp the texture coordinates so that you don't sample texels outside of that polygon's lightmap sub-rect.

Between these two approaches, multi-sample anti-aliasing artifacts should be a non-issue for any DX9-level hardware running Pixel Shader 2.0.

3) How will this look?

We'll release one of the demo movies with the anti-aliasing artifacts in and one with the anti-aliasing changes.
 
If this is legit, I thank you very much for keeping us informed on the situation. It's most certainly an honour to have you here!

[/asskiss]

;)
 
:D Hey Gabe, thanks for clearing that up...
 
wow, thanks for the update Gabe, I never would have thought...

man, I'm glad we got that cleared up, all these threads over fsaa concerns...
 
Thanks man, but doe that mean it is safe tp buy Nvidia FX5900 cards;;;:cool:
 
Gabe's been registered on this forum for 5 days now, which coincides with the whole fiasco starting. It does indeed seem legit.
 
geez - with support like this I want to buy *2* copies. Or a t-shirt or something.

Even takes the time to explain things in terms simple enough for all of us.

pwnz0r3d!!!!!!111111
 
Wow, he was been watching our forums :cool:

Thanks Mr gabe sir. :p

I think you should try to answer the next question a newbie asks in the email valve thread if possible, and tell them yourself that their suppost to email you :p
 
Thanks for clearing that up Gabe. You really are the greatest. :thumbs:

EDIT: hey Munro, this would make a very good sticky post. Kinda like a sacred thread that should be up for all to see. :cheese:
 
n00b: | Will my computar run HL2??
___________|____________________
|
Gabe Newell: |Your supposed to e-mail me.
|
___________|____________________
 
Ouch. If Nvidia is going to use pixel shader 2.0 to fix this problem that are in big trouble
 
What a champ. Id always read about how helpfull valve was to day of defeat and how they could always email them about coding issues or any problems they had, but the email responses and interviews from the team are just phenominal. Ill have stearn words with anyone who bad mouths valve.
 
Originally posted by reever2
Ouch. If Nvidia is going to use pixel shader 2.0 to fix this problem that are in big trouble

You referring to the recent reports about Fx cards not support all 2.0 features?

We'll see if that has any effect on THIS situation.
 
Newspost made
list.gif
 
:p exactly :D


grrrr. I have to go sleep now. At this time. How annoying. ;)

cheers again gabe. (video soon?) j/k j/k
 
I wonder where that guy who's been making fun of Gabe has been. His name was "FatBoy Gabe", and his joke's weren't funny! Gabe should kick his @$s:cheers:
 
Cool the big man came by! Thanks for explaining it, though some of the technologically challenged (aka casual gamers) will have some problems understanding some of those words ;)

I got the picture though, thanks for clearing up the tech side of it instead of having all these noobie idiots trying to make themselves sound smart by answering in dumb ways.
 
Welcome to the boards, Gabe :cheers:

Will you be hanging out here more often?
 
Originally posted by Lifthz
You referring to the recent reports about Fx cards not support all 2.0 features?

We'll see if that has any effect on THIS situation.

Support isnt the problem, speed is. Without Nvidia changing or having full control of what shader code is going to go into Hl2, its not going to be very fast or fast at all. I would guess nvidias drivers will balloon up a couple more mb worth of shader code once the fix is out
 
Wow. I feel so privileged to be in the presence of the creator of Half-Life.

(Yes i realise I'm not actually in his presence OK. Lets just let me have my fun)

I hope that what you are saying is legit (by that i mean that it is in fact you saying it). Also seeing these videos would be nice. Ive been sat at my computer all the time waiting to see steam update (nice work with that by the way. I like it).:dork:
 
Im ranked higher than gabe!
Seriously, I hope this is legit, because if it isnt its not a funny joke...
 
Originally posted by Farrowlesparrow
Wow. I feel so privileged to be in the presence of the creator of Half-Life.

(Yes i realise I'm not actually in his presence OK. Lets just let me have my fun)

I hope that what you are saying is legit (by that i mean that it is in fact you saying it). Also seeing these videos would be nice. Ive been sat at my computer all the time waiting to see steam update (nice work with that by the way. I like it).:dork:

Lol. You aren't in his presence.

Originally posted by reever2
Support isnt the problem, speed is. Without Nvidia changing or having full control of what shader code is going to go into Hl2, its not going to be very fast or fast at all. I would guess nvidias drivers will balloon up a couple more mb worth of shader code once the fix is out

Well I dunno, we haven't seen any game that actually uses much of DX9 man. Heheh. We'll see.
 
Gabe is a noob headcrab. :cheese:

Noob noob. Let the flaming begin. noob. :eek:

No but seriously thanks for clearing things up.
 
Originally posted by Kamakiri
Gabe is a noob headcrab. :cheese:

Noob noob. Let the flaming begin. noob. :eek:

No but seriously thanks for clearing things up.
Gabe gets to play HL2, you don't :p



I don't either ;(
 
Very professionaly done Gabe. I have never seem a company so dedicated to their fans. I think its so awsome and wish you and your team all the success in the world.

As for me, I probably will not be using AA with my nvidea ti4200 anyways.
 
Originally posted by Torsion
Very professionaly done Gabe. I have never seem a company so dedicated to their fans. I think its so awsome and wish you and your team all the success in the world.

As for me, I probably will not be using AA with my nvidea ti4200 anyways.

Yeah, it's good. Bungie does similar. More through their website though. Valve has nothing at their site.
 
Bungie also butchers it's original idea to get it to fit on a underselling console and cuts major portions of the game for the PC release.

Lets stick to Valve.
 
yay gabe

a spokesman who knows what hes talking about. glad we got a good technical explanation and how it could be fixed :D
 
You're confusing Microsoft an Bungie again.
And the PC version of Halo actual has more stuff than the Xbox version, albeit much later.
 
Yeah, Bungie sold out. Then again, Bungie probably needed money.
 
Originally posted by Boogaleeboo
Bungie also butchers it's original idea to get it to fit on a underselling console and cuts major portions of the game for the PC release.

Lets stick to Valve.

halo rocked as an xbox game :D

it will suck for PC
 
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