Are graphics getting less realistic?

Do lighting effects such as HDR and bloom make graphics:

  • More realistic

    Votes: 130 88.4%

  • Less realistic

    Votes: 17 11.6%
  • Total voters
    147
ZoFreX

ZoFreX

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I always thought improvement in graphics for computer games was meant to be aiming for realistic graphics, but I've been looking at all these new screenies with HDR and bloom and the rest... and it's basically a step backwards. Take a look at this:
[LINK]
The pic was chosen at random, but you can see the same effect in any HDR game (Far Cry, Lost Coast) - the sky is completely whited out while the foreground brightness is correct. Now, if I took a photo with a camera, that is a realistic render of what the photo would look like - but it's not what it would look like to my eyes! My pet theory is that game developers don't get out much so they have to rely on photos for references, and they're recreating what they see in their photographs (which would explain the totally messed up idea of putting lens flare in games, too).

Now I know not all these games are doing true HDR, but nearly every mod for Half-Life 2 now is imitating these effects, and games coming out like AoE3:
[LINK]
Are using them too... and at the end of the day, it's just not realistic, and it looks tacky and silly.
 
Yes, I guess it is easy to take the piss rather than make a valid point. I'm just referring to a very recent trend of completely whited out skies and bloom on every lamp post that does not reflect what I see when I walk down the street.
 
The thing is, whenever bloom or HDR is shown in screenshots, an extreme example is chosen to show off, not representing the average extent to which the effects are used, i.e. it's use might be more subtle and realistic, on average, throughout a game.
 
1: Why is this thread in R&S?
2: No, more realistic
3: Bloom just needs to be worked on a bit.
 
ZoFrex, you are imagining things. Bloom and HDR are new effects that have not been completly perfectly. The normal effects are already pretty much perfected, and the majority of games do not use proper HDR effects (Just bloom), but they'll improve over time. Get used to it, its the future :cheers:
 
ZoFreX said:
I always thought improvement in graphics for computer games was meant to be aiming for realistic graphics, but I've been looking at all these new screenies with HDR and bloom and the rest... and it's basically a step backwards. Take a look at this:
[LINK]
The pic was chosen at random, but you can see the same effect in any HDR game (Far Cry, Lost Coast) - the sky is completely whited out while the foreground brightness is correct. Now, if I took a photo with a camera, that is a realistic render of what the photo would look like - but it's not what it would look like to my eyes! My pet theory is that game developers don't get out much so they have to rely on photos for references, and they're recreating what they see in their photographs (which would explain the totally messed up idea of putting lens flare in games, too).

Now I know not all these games are doing true HDR, but nearly every mod for Half-Life 2 now is imitating these effects, and games coming out like AoE3:
[LINK]
Are using them too... and at the end of the day, it's just not realistic, and it looks tacky and silly.
Click to expand...

HDR is necessary if you're going for photoreal simulation. The current implementations aren't good in terms of photorealism but that doesn't mean it's impact when used properly won't raise the bar.

Overuse of normal maps without specularity or subsurface scattering in Doom3 made everything look plastic, but that doesn't mean the technique isn't immensely valuable to photoreal rendering when used properly.

Download the rthdribl simulation (google the word) or Radeon 9700 HDR demo to see effective use of HDR. Rest assured you won't dismiss HDR's importance after that.

EDIT: The other thing to note about HDR is it's dynamic nature- it's not designed to be pinpointed or tied down to a screenshot, rather to work as a dynamic effect. You don't noticed overblown skies when you look around in the real world, because when you look at the sky to check, your eyes adjust. As HDR will ingame.
 
ZoFreX said:
I always thought improvement in graphics for computer games was meant to be aiming for realistic graphics, but I've been looking at all these new screenies with HDR and bloom and the rest... and it's basically a step backwards. Take a look at this:
[LINK]
The pic was chosen at random, but you can see the same effect in any HDR game (Far Cry, Lost Coast) - the sky is completely whited out while the foreground brightness is correct. Now, if I took a photo with a camera, that is a realistic render of what the photo would look like - but it's not what it would look like to my eyes! My pet theory is that game developers don't get out much so they have to rely on photos for references, and they're recreating what they see in their photographs (which would explain the totally messed up idea of putting lens flare in games, too).

Now I know not all these games are doing true HDR, but nearly every mod for Half-Life 2 now is imitating these effects, and games coming out like AoE3:
[LINK]
Are using them too... and at the end of the day, it's just not realistic, and it looks tacky and silly.
Click to expand...

I think the GFX are getting better
http://img168.exs.cx/img168/4884/r818ua.jpg
http://img168.exs.cx/img168/8731/r825fk.jpg
http://img65.exs.cx/img65/572/r835ok.jpg
 
No new technology reaches its full potential in the first iteration. Give it some time.
 
Are using them too... and at the end of the day, it's just not realistic, and it looks tacky and silly.
Click to expand...
When was the last time you went outside?
It all matters how it's used.


Outside there is a puddle, when I look at it I notice a few very bright spots on it.
In a computer game, we need HDR to render those very bright spots. Without HDR we cannot achieve Photo-Realism because we will never be able to have those bright spots without it.

HDR was poorly implemented in Farcry. Lost Coast should add it right. Maybe you jsust don't get outside enough....

But yeah, HDR when used correctly is not a bloom, not an addition to make the game look prettier, at the end of the day it is the ability to make lighting more realistic by allowing us to have light values much higher than before.
 
Graphics are most certainly getting more realistic.
 
I understand that we need HDR for realistic rendering but I think all the current models are aiming at mimicking cameras and not human eyes... obviously just needs refining but it seems both the industry and the modding scene are just blooming everything to hell to make it look shiny - something like [link] does not happen to me all that often! I would have had to come out of a very damn dark place for a fluorescent light to look like that. As it stands, I normally play my games with HDR turned off.

Oh, and for anyone who just replied to the title instead of actually reading my post, go stick your head in a blender kthxbi. Everyone who replied with some intelligence - you were fine.
 
The whole bloom thing is just a fad.. in a few months people will realize that it sucks and its benefits (being blinded) are not worth the frame loss...
 
Idea:
Maybe some new kind of monitor could be developed, one where any one pixel/group of pixels could go as bright as a 60+ watt lightbulb! So if you saw a reeaaly bright reflection in a pool of water, it would flash bright enough to make you blink/squint :O
Obviously it's not good for l'eyes to have it that bright, but you know what I mean...a monitor that can be really bright, but still safe for your eyes...

With some HDR effects today, I get the reflex to squint whenever I look at an object that's really bright, but then I realize it's just the surrounding area getting darker. What if you could have a monitor that didn't need to darken the surrounding area, and instead just brighten the area to the point where you need to blink/squint/look away? :D :D :D (yes you might think this would get really annoying when trying to play a game, but obviously it would have to be implemented with that in mind)

IMO it would be more realistic than many HDR effects...

But whatever, graphics will improve enough to look photorealistic on their own anyway...
 
well, no lens flare, that's what i think. it only happens when ur looking through a camera... but hey, the graphic's cool.
 
if we could kill idiot who misinterpreted bloom as HDR, we would all live happier lives.

Halo 2 sucked everything blooming like there's a ****ing 20000 watt bulb behind you. I will even go so far as saying Halo 1 was better.
 
True HDR is nice but I hate how every game developer and their little brother is adding bloom into their games. Real eyes will adjust to the light and it wouldn't stay like a white haze for long, what you got correct are still images. It especially irritates me when I can't turn it off.
 
ZoFreX said:
I understand that we need HDR for realistic rendering but I think all the current models are aiming at mimicking cameras and not human eyes...
Click to expand...

Cameras work like human eyes. It's your dodgy understanding of the difference between overzealous implementations of bloom and true HDR rendering that is the problem here.

Like I said, this wouldn't be an argument if you checked out the rthdribl or ATI natural light tech demos that demonstrate a realistic HDRI effect.
 
The whole bloom thing is just a fad.. in a few months people will realize that it sucks and its benefits (being blinded) are not worth the frame loss...
Click to expand...
Bloom != HDR.

Bloom cannot achieve HDR.
 
jondy said:
Cameras work like human eyes. It's your dodgy understanding of the difference between overzealous implementations of bloom and true HDR rendering that is the problem here.

Like I said, this wouldn't be an argument if you checked out the rthdribl or ATI natural light tech demos that demonstrate a realistic HDRI effect.
Click to expand...

Minerel said:
Bloom != HDR.

Bloom cannot achieve HDR.
Click to expand...

I've known what HDR is for far longer than it's been in computer games thank you, and I'm aware that bloom is something seperate. I think both effects are done wrong. It's HDR that's whiting out the sky in my Far Cry, for example. You'll also find that I clearly stated that I thought the current implementation of HDR / bloom in games was unrealistic - I know damn well how sweet HDR looks when done properly, e.g. in my 3d studio max, where it looks the cat's whiskers.

Idonotbelonghere said:
Idea:
Maybe some new kind of monitor could be developed, one where any one pixel/group of pixels could go as bright as a 60+ watt lightbulb! So if you saw a reeaaly bright reflection in a pool of water, it would flash bright enough to make you blink/squint :O
Click to expand...

I like this guy! :D

Idonotbelonghere said:
With some HDR effects today, I get the reflex to squint whenever I look at an object that's really bright
Click to expand...

I do that when I look at the sun in a computer game.. human nature I guess.
 
Oh, so you do know what you're talking about :D

However, now I don't understand your point. You're saying that HDR rendering in 3DS looks fantastic, and know that that kindof implementation is what developers like Valve are trying for, but are entertaining the notion that graphics are getting less realistic?

Obviously, some current iterations aren't realistic (FarCry's HDR is renowned for blowing out highlights and general oversaturation) but surely you should understand the importance of correct use of HDR in achieving photorealism?
 
HDR will get better. When 3D came out it looked worse than its 2D counterpart. Now look at games like HL2 and Grand Turismo.
 
jondy said:
However, now I don't understand your point. You're saying that HDR rendering in 3DS looks fantastic, and know that that kindof implementation is what developers like Valve are trying for, but are entertaining the notion that graphics are getting less realistic?
Click to expand...

I'm not entirely sure that developers -are- aiming for a realistic implementation, but even if they are, their current efforts are, in my opinion, making the graphics less realistic. I guess it's just not ready yet (Far Cry for example the HDR is optional and very beta) - but for now my number one on the wishlist is for all the Half-Life 2 mods to stop tacking on &#@!ing bloom effects. And seriously, put lens flare in and I will stab you.
 
ZoFreX said:
I'm not entirely sure that developers -are- aiming for a realistic implementation, but even if they are, their current efforts are, in my opinion, making the graphics less realistic. I guess it's just not ready yet (Far Cry for example the HDR is optional and very beta) - but for now my number one on the wishlist is for all the Half-Life 2 mods to stop tacking on &#@!ing bloom effects. And seriously, put lens flare in and I will stab you.
Click to expand...

Less realistic but more beautiful, and FarCry was never aiming for photorealism anyway. HDR on current hardware is ready (and once again I point out the aforementioned tech demos :stare: ) It's just never been used in a photorealistic context in a mainstream game. TLC will hopefully change that.
 
I keep on mistaking the AOEIII city screen for some type of realistic model from some sort of enthusiast
 
I'm gonna do some careful experiments tomorrow to see if I can get the sky to white out like it does in a lot of the demos.. I'll make sure that most of my vision is a dark thing, and that my focus is on a dark area, and see if the sky in the upper portion of my vision whites out.. could be fun.
 
I notice that sometimes while walking from room to room in my house, we have 3 diffrent kinds of lights in 3 diffrent rooms all connected. When I walk from one to another, my eyes readjust. I can tell, as I can't see half the shit(no not directly cut in half), but you get the point. Anyway, just diffrent light settings can do it. Then I have to remember where something was that I was going to get by memory. I can easily see how truthfull it is.

I wouldn't call it "whites out", but your eyes do have to readjust.
 
Realistic Graphics!!? :eek:

You mean you actually want the graphics to look like reality?? Doesn't that spoil the game as the game is to be an escape from reality?? Blah.
 
games will never look realistic while theyre still being made the way they are.
 
TheSomeone said:
You've obviously never seen the california sun.
Click to expand...
....but none of the HDR games are set in California are they??
 
SLH said:
....but none of the HDR games are set in California are they??
Click to expand...

I'm thinking that maybe possibly california isn't the only place where there is strong sunlight on the entire planet. Just MAYBE. </sarcasm>

Plus, that's completely besides the point. If it exists in California, wether it exists anywhere else or not, it's real. And if games imitate the real, they are realistic.
 
Doesn't HDR work for Darkness aswell? Why haven't we seen Dark HDR shots?
 
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