Are Video Games Art?

[CptStern]

WTF? No one cares about/has seen 'Mom and Pop Art'??????? Where are the Simpsons fans???!!!

I read most of it ..it's interesting however the simpsons episode in question is called mom and Pop Art which is a dead giveaway that they're skewering pop art

6Three: on the surface (pun not intended) it's about art as mass consumerism commodity ..the meduim is the message in this case ..the mountain says nothing except "hey I'm a mountain"

 

[Vegeta897]

I read most of it ..it's interesting however the simpsons episode in question is called mom and Pop Art which is a dead giveaway that they're skewering pop art

6Three: on the surface (pun not intended) it's about art as mass consumerism commodity ..the meduim is the message in this case ..the mountain says nothing except "hey I'm a mountain"

So.. photography isn't art?

Stern I want to let you know that your first reply to 6Three is so ridiculous that it sounds sarcastic.

And you didn't respond to the point he made. The mountain picture is inspiring, beautiful, gives you a feeling of adventure or peace.

It's like your drowning in your own politically correct definitions and bullshit and missing the most basic of concepts here.

 

[Stigmata]

So.. photography isn't art?

Stern I want to let you know that your first reply to 6Three is so ridiculous that it sounds sarcastic.

And you didn't respond to the point he made. The mountain picture is inspiring, beautiful, gives you a feeling of adventure or peace.

It's like your drowning in your own politically correct definitions and bullshit and missing the most basic of concepts here.

Photography and that mountain do count as art, but so many photographs and so many mountains have been recreated in so many similar ways that their individual messages are watered down to a point where the message is no longer significant. Taken on its own, the mountain does inspire a feeling of beauty, peace, and so forth. But in the context of our culture as a whole, it doesn't mean anything.

 

[Vegeta897]

Photography and that mountain do count as art, but so many photographs and so many mountains have been recreated in so many similar ways that their individual messages are watered down to a point where the message is no longer significant. Taken on its own, the mountain does inspire a feeling of beauty, peace, and so forth. But in the context of our culture as a whole, it doesn't mean anything.

Allow me to restate my opinion on this ridiculous "high art" definition.

Big ****ing deal.

Art is art damnit. Art takes artistic skill to make. Are you saying a stick figure drawing and a beautiful painting that doesn't "mean" anything have the same artistic value?

 

[Stigmata]

I'm not saying it's not art. I'm saying it's art that's been done to death. It took skill, it looks nice, okay, cool, that's great.

 

[CR0M]

That a debate is sparked so easily about what is art and what isn't is sad evidence of the unbending arrogance of man. Thanks to exploitists in the 50's and 60's, critics have twisted, flayed and lobotomised what it is to actually create, and art has become merely the mass hysterical opinion of art.

Failing to understand the difference between a shark carcass in a box and the sistine chapel ceiling is a trait of modern society that should never have been let out of the cellar.

 

[Solaris]

Allow me to restate my opinion on this ridiculous "high art" definition.

Big ****ing deal.

Art is art damnit. Art takes artistic skill to make. Are you saying a stick figure drawing and a beautiful painting that doesn't "mean" anything have the same artistic value?

Tip: go to bed, you sound cranky.

Yes, Art is art. Yes it does take artistic skills to make. I don't think anyones saying a little stick figure and a beautiful painting have the same artistic value.

 

[the show 1347]

Video games are a art just like music is art.Good games are made by good artists and great games are made by great and skillful artists.Therefore i think games are not just thrown together with mapping and sound but with careful thinking of design and gameplay that is games art.

 

[Gray Fox]

I still don't think any game has reached he high art level.

But at the same time, it's hard not to think of art or even high art when I look at games.
How can something that instills such awe in my mind.
Something that can touch me on a deeper emotional level.
Something that lets dreams and fantasies come true, like no other medium till date.
And most of all something that can bring out the best and most beautiful in people, not be art.

I will admit, by that reasoning, Zinedine Zidane, is an artist, an engineer from BMW is an artist, and what they do could be considered art.

And I'm sure a lot of people have come up with a reasoning like this before me and all were dismissed. Maybe people like me are just to distracted by bells and whistles to see something for what it really is, maybe thats why I have a hard time making a distinction.

 

[Bad^Hat]

The mountain picture is inspiring, beautiful, gives you a feeling of adventure or peace.

No it doesn't. I look at it and all I think is "cool graphics". It gives you those feelings, therefore to you it can be considered art by your own definition.

So there. Art is only what you percieve it to be. It's too broad a term to have only one meaning for everyone.

Sorry if this post seems redundant, but to me so does trying to convince someone that your's is the one and only true meaning.

(Note, this post wasn't intended solely for Vegeta, his quote was just the easiest to make my point from )

 

[63]

There you have it, thread closed! Art is whatever you want it to be on an individual, case-by-case basis!

 

[CptStern]

There you have it, thread closed! Art is whatever you want it to be on an individual, case-by-case basis!

no, I wont settle for that

that would mean this:

is equal to this:

 

[Laivasse]

Urgh, you can see his willy...!

 

[CptStern]

Urgh, you can see his willy...!

there ..is that better?

or if you prefer the American version:

 

[CR0M]

ah, Michelangelo's Dave

Why is Elvis leaking?

 

[Laivasse]

or if you prefer the American version:

hahahahaha...nice one.

 

[Crushenator 500]

Oh and concept art for video games, no matter how intricate is not art; it's advertising illustration

And why can't illustration be art?

You're saying there's nothing artistic about the following images?

As opposed to what, the depth, stimulation, and briliance of "fine art" like this Hockney piece?

(note: im not saying all fine art is shit, some of it is absolutely incredible, both old and new, but completely dismissing illustration as an artform is rediculous)

 

[CptStern]

the first illustration is very similiar to my own style of illustration ..obviously I think I have artistic ability and by association so does the above art ..but you miss the point ..advertising illutration is created for a single purpose: advertise a product ...it's not art for the sake of art, it conveys no message, it doesnt reflect on the condition of man ..it has no other goals excapt to push a particular product ...take Norman Rockwell is an example ..no one would ever dispute he was a talented artist ..however the majority of his most famous work were created for the covers of magazines like Life and Time



the problem is that people are confusing "art" with "Art"


art:

Art:

they're both by Norman rockwell ..but one is advertising illustration the other is commentary on the condition of man

 

[CR0M]

Absolutely true. Artwork is not art. It's artwork.
And Crushenator, Hockney isn't Fine Art, Michelangelo is Fine Art. Hockney is just an expert in exploitation, as all shit artist have to be to succeed.

 

[Crushenator 500]

And Crushenator, Hockney isn't Fine Art, Michelangelo is Fine Art.

So you're saying that even though he was commisioned to paint bible illustrations, he wasn't an illustrator?

What makes the artists I posted above not fine artists then?

 

[CptStern]

artists back then didnt see themselves as artists ..not as we see them today

they were considered craftsmen ..like architects or masonists

 

[CR0M]

Most people seem to be blind to the divide between art and Art. To understand you first need to know the difference between the artist and the Artist.

Everyone has the ability to scribble, no matter how crap it turns out - the end result is not important. Sometimes it's success is dependent on it's crapness. Monkeys can do it. This is the artist.

But very few can successfully attempt to traverse the dark fissure between the cornea and the hand in which a whole dimension is mysteriously chewed up and lost, to obsessively tear shape and colour out of the dark, slapping it kicking and screaming onto the canvas of the real world again for others to see as the artist saw it, before it's journey began on the other side of his brain. This is the Artist.

 

[CptStern]

that's why Artists tend to go mad, or hack off their ear, or take out all their frustrations out in the politics forums especially against those crazy right-wingers ...<- I heard that's exactly why Modigliani went insane and drank himself to death :O

 

[Crushenator 500]

Most people seem to be blind to the divide between art and Art. To understand you first need to know the difference between the artist and the Artist.

Everyone has the ability to scribble, no matter how crap it turns out - the end result is not important. Sometimes it's success is dependent on it's crapness. Monkeys can do it. This is the artist.

And yet you call what i posted "art", which according to you is crappy scribbles... yes?

 

[CR0M]

No, I did not say all scribbles are crappy, only that it isn't important if they turn out that way. Illustrations like the ones you posted are, compared to classic works of Art, still scribbles. Good scribbles though they are. Not great, but good.
If you want some examples of really good artists, and even some great Artists, you will find them all published here. Try not to drool down your shirt.

Sketches / comics / concept art etc. are the fast food of artwork, they look like food and smell like food and taste mmmgood to the masses but they are not wild venison in a port and mushroom sauce with steamed asparagus tips. Because of this reason they are not Art. They are art. If you know what I mean.

that's why Artists tend to go mad

Truth.

 

[Flyingdebris]

i just came back from touring blur studios, i will most definitely say games are art. If for no other reason than the amount of artistic thought that goes into the designs.

For example, everything in doom 3, whether you love it or hate it, was consciously chosen to look sound or behave a certain way. In hellgate London all the creatures, backgrounds, heros, weapons, they were all created based on the ideas of artists. Games are a cumulative effort on part of artists just as much if not more so as they are on codeers.

Games more and more are about crafting an experience, and thats no different than what a painting or piece of music sets out to do.

oh and one more thing, concept art and illustration is most definitely art. The only difference between fine art and illustration is the artist's willingness to bullshit and very little else.

 

[Kouler]

Art is a way of expressing something. If you can convey certain feelings, or situations through a game, be it graphically, audibly, or through the actual gameplay merging these two factors, then it is art.

 

[Solaris]

i just came back from touring blur studios, i will most definitely say games are art. If for no other reason than the amount of artistic thought that goes into the designs.

If thats a valid reason then a house is Art as it takes the architect along time to design.

For example, everything in doom 3, whether you love it or hate it, was consciously chosen to look sound or behave a certain way. In hellgate London all the creatures, backgrounds, heros, weapons, they were all created based on the ideas of artists

Little creatures designed to look scary are not Art.

Games more and more are about crafting an experience, and thats no different than what a painting or piece of music sets out to do.

Everything is an experience, so therefore everything is art? No, becuase an experience is not Art, it may be fun, well built, look pretty, but it is not a piece of Art.

oh and one more thing, concept art and illustration is most definitely art. The only difference between fine art and illustration is the artist's willingness to bullshit and very little else.

No it is not.

Have you ever toured an art museum? Layed eyes on the masterpieces painted by genius's such as van gogh and Picasso? Paintings such as the potato eaters, and starry night. Have a look at Picassos Guernica, it's revolutionary, utterly fantastic, if you have ever stood in awe and understanding of such works you would laugh at what you have just said. No game is anywhere near as Artistic as such things.

 

[99.vikram]

Because of this reason they are not Art. They are art. If you know what I mean.

I know what you mean. You prefer some types of art over others, but being the snob you are, you're here to parade that.

 

[CptStern]

:upstare: come on, you cant honestly believe that nonsense

you know there's a reason why art is perceived as snobbish/elitist ..I think it mostly stems from the fact that joe six pack just doesnt understand it ..so ignorance breeds fear, fear breeds hate, hate fuels ignorance

oh and one more thing, concept art and illustration is most definitely art. The only difference between fine art and illustration is the artist's willingness to bullshit and very little else.

yes because this has no meaning

it's just bullshit invented by the artist

 

[99.vikram]

you know there's a reason why art is perceived as snobbish/elitist ..I think it mostly stems from the fact that joe six pack just doesnt understand it ..so ignorance breeds fear, fear breeds hate, hate fuels ignorance

Or that since time immemorial people have have been looking for somthing to make them feel special.
Hence the art "connoisseurs".

yes because this has no meaning

*snip*

it's just bullshit invented by the artist

It is an excellent show of skill, but it has no meaning in and of itself.

I could bullsh1t any meaning into that painting.

 

[CptStern]

Or that since time immemorial people have have been looking for somthing to make them feel special.
Hence the art "connoisseurs".

special to whom? each other? and connoisseurs are usually the buying public ..the ignorant buying public

It is an excellent show of skill, but it has no meaning in and of itself.

you couldnt be more wrong:

On April 27th, 1937, unprecedented atrocities are perpetrated on behalf of Franco against the civilian population of a little Basque village in northern Spain. Chosen for bombing practice by Hitler's burgeoning war machine, the hamlet is pounded with high-explosive and incendiary bombs for over three hours. Townspeople are cut down as they run from the crumbling buildings. Guernica burns for three days. Sixteen hundred civilians are killed or wounded.
more about the bombing of Guernica

By May 1st, news of the massacre at Guernica reaches Paris, where more than a million protesters flood the streets to voice their outrage in the largest May Day demonstration the city has ever seen. Eyewitness reports fill the front pages of Paris papers. Picasso is stunned by the stark black and white photographs. Appalled and enraged, Picasso rushes through the crowded streets to his studio, where he quickly sketches the first images for the mural he will call Guernica. His search for inspiration is over.

The Spanish struggle is the fight of reaction against the people, against freedom. My whole life as an artist has been nothing more than a continuous struggle against reaction and the death of art. How could anybody think for a moment that I could be in agreement with reaction and death? ... In the panel on which I am working, which I shall call Guernica, and in all my recent works of art, I clearly express my abhorrence of the military caste which has sunk Spain in an ocean of pain and death

I could bullsh1t any meaning into that painting.

yes but your bullshit would be just that: bullshit ...anyone with half a brain would see it coming from a mile away ...you cant bullshit philosphy, not without sounding like a fool

 

[99.vikram]

Let me clarify this point - Picasso painted it with a very specific (and wonderful) meaning, but unless it is explained by a guide or a book, no one can decipher that picture. Think before you counter me - could you have understood that painting if it was by some unknown artist who never explained what it meant?

 

[CptStern]

Let me clarify this point - Picasso painted it with a very specific meaning (and wonderful), but unless it is explained by a guide or a book, no one can decipher that picture.

sure they can ..look at the image ..it's all there in black and white. And frankly you support my notion that Art is not for the masses ..they're too ignorant of issues surrounding art to take notice so the majority of Art is lost on them ..therefore the rise of the common man's attitude about art: "I know what I like" ...it's just meaningless opinion based on nothing but personal preference ...the average joe should never comment on art just like a Britney spears should never discuss jazz fusion

Think before you counter me - could you have understood that painting if it was by some unknown artist who never explained what it meant?

my parents are from Spain so that's not a valid question ..art should never be seen inside a vacuum ..you should be aware of the specific movement in art before viewing ..anything less would be a waste of time

 

[99.vikram]

I don't think there's any point in this debate.

I never really liked Picasso, cubism and all that jazz.

 

[Solaris]

I don't think there's any point in this debate.

I never really liked Picasso, cubism and all that jazz.

Then please tell me what you are doing in a thread about art if you 'don't like' one of the greatest artists of all time.

I mean, it could be that you have some very good reasoning to dislike it besides ignorance but looking at what you've been writing here I doubt it.

When you look at and read about Guernica it becomes blindingly obvious that most PC games are not art, I'm not sure if any are really.

 

[Asknoone]

Don't be a patronising willy Solaris.

 

[CptStern]

I don't think there's any point in this debate.

I agree because you prove me point repeatedly:

I never really liked Picasso, cubism and all that jazz.

 

[15357]

Video games are like animations/anime, in terms of art...syness.

 

[Laivasse]

Um, Art (capital a) does not define itself. People define Art. By deciding they like it. The idea that art can somehow exist objectively, distinct from human opinion of it, is absurd. Any art fancier who purports to appreciate the work of every person who has ever been recognised as a great Artist - just because 'b-b-b-but it's Art!' - and appreciate it all equally, is a fraud and a charlatan and a bounder and a cad, also rapscallion.

The amount of pretentiousness in this thread would be funny if it wasn't so irritating.