Are we born Atheists, or Agnostic?

[Max35]

This was a question put forward in the other thread. It actually got me thinking (which I usually dislike). I tried to do a moderate amount of research this time around, as opposed to my ignorance in the other thread.

First, we must consider what Atheist means.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=Atheist

One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

Now we must look at what disbelief means, from both sides.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disbelief

1. the inability or refusal to believe or to accept something as true

If we take "inability" as the definition, then yes, we are born Atheists, as infants lack the capacity to believe the existance of God.

Then we have agnosticism (which was the other point argued). We cannot be born agnostic, because the definition is as such:


1. a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
2. a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.
?adjective 3. of or pertaining to agnostics or agnosticism.
4. asserting the uncertainty of all claims to knowledge

Infants don't have that complex of thought process, so therefore, I conclude that we are born Atheists.


Anyway, I just thought it would be better to put this in a separate thread.

 

[theotherguy]

stop religious threads now and meld them into one big one.

EDIT: and no, you're wrong, a definition of atheism that most if not all atheists use is

2. a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods

 

[Krynn72]

Neither!

I win.

 

[Max35]

stop religious threads now and meld them into one big one.

EDIT: and no, you're wrong, a definition of atheism that most if not all atheists use is

Sorry, you a moderator? Didn't think so. Putting all of those threads together would create a bit of confusion I think.

Am I wrong? That definition seemed quite similiar to mine, if you know how to read between the lines. It is still a "lack of belief" no matter how you look at it.

And besides, what makes your cited definition more valid than mine? Just because, according to you, "most atheists" use that defintion. Hardly convincing.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Well seeing as how we're born without having any core set of beliefs...umm...shouldn't the answer be obvious?

 

[Stigmata]

Well technically you're born Atheist, when defined as the inability to believe in the existence of one or more gods, since at that point you have no conception of what a 'belief' even is, much less a 'god'.

There are multiple definitions for Atheist and Agnostic, but as far as I've seen, Atheism is the only one with a definition applicable at birth.

 

[jondy]

who f*cking cares?

 

[Aenama]

Neither!

I win.

high five!


:cheese:

 

[Vegeta897]

who f*cking cares?

Seconded.

Seriously how does this help anything?
When you're born you can't even ****ing think about anything, why does it matter.

 

[Max35]

Well seeing as how we're born without having any core set of beliefs...umm...shouldn't the answer be obvious?

It was obvious to me (after looking up the concrete definition). If you take theotherguy's definition (a "lack of belief"), or mine, you can come to the same conclusion.

I don't see how my post doesn't hold up, within the confines of the entirely legitamite definition, it is debatable if you are using a different source, I suppose.

 

[Max35]

Well technically you're born Atheist, when defined as the inability to believe in the existence of one or more gods, since at that point you have no conception of what a 'belief' even is, much less a 'god'.

There are multiple definitions for Atheist and Agnostic, but as far as I've seen, Atheism is the only one with a definition applicable at birth.

Thank you.

EDIT: Sorry for the DP.

 

[Pauly]

IMHO, you are born as nothing. You are born as 'one without any viewpoint/religion"

 

[WacK]

IMHO, you are born as nothing. You are born as 'one without any viewpoint/religion"

Yes... because you are a baby.. and babies cant think.. that much

 

[Max35]

IMHO, you are born as nothing. You are born as 'one without any viewpoint/religion"

I realize the bold words, and that is exactly my point. Please read the original post.

 

[Alig]

So what you're saying is you can be unable to form a belief of a god at birth, but at the same time you can be in disbelief that a god exists (atheist).

Your thread contradicts itself, like the guy a few posts up pointed out..we're born as nothing.

I, myself am an atheist, but i wasn't born like that. I don't think i quite gived much of a shit when i was 0 years old..or upto about 10, and even then i didn't much care either.

 

[Max35]

So what you're saying is you can be unable to form a belief of a god at birth, but at the same time you can be in disbelief that a god exists (atheist).

Your thread contradicts itself, like the guy a few posts up pointed out..we're born as nothing.

I, myself am an atheist, but i wasn't born like that. I don't think i quite gived much of a shit when i was 0 years old..or upto about 10, and even then i didn't much care either.

You're utterly missing the point. Read the definition of "disbelief" that I posted. Here, I'll do the work for you. Read the inability part. Infants are atheists in one sense of the definition. Yes, I realize that it doesn't matter. But I'm one for technical-jargon.

WARNING: Before posting, read the first post thoroughly.

Now we must look at what disbelief means, from both sides.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disbelief

1. the inability or refusal to believe or to accept something as true

 

[Stigmata]

*ahem*

Well technically you're born Atheist, when defined as the inability to believe in the existence of one or more gods, since at that point you have no conception of what a 'belief' even is, much less a 'god'.

There are multiple definitions for Atheist and Agnostic, but as far as I've seen, Atheism is the only one with a definition applicable at birth.

Atheism and Agnosticism both have multiple definitions, but Atheism is the only one that can be defined as an "absence of belief" - which fits the bill of "babies are not able to conceptualize religion".

Thread over.

 

[Pulse]

When we are born/very young we only use our most basic of instincts; eating, shitting and crying. We interact with our surroundings as primitively as possible, in order to survive. At that age we do not have the capability or mental capacity to question said surroundings.

Note to above: From the previous thread;

Atheism

The doctrine or belief that there is no God.

 

[Alig]

I did read your post. I don't see your point, it's the inability or refusal to believe or accept something as true. So that means that, given a baby is unable to refuse anything except it's food, it doesn't have the ability to believe in something.

 

[Max35]

Pulse, I have the link for both words. They don't lie, but the definitions vary. If you disagree with the definition, fine; but according to the definition I cited, my information is accurate.

Alig, you have a half-point, but are still misunderstanding. In one sense of disbelief infants couldn't be atheists refusal, but in the other sense inability it is an atheist.

Just because it doesn't have the ability to "refuse anything except it's food" has no baring on the argument. It is still a state of "disbelief." Although as I said it hardly matters, for the reason you stated.

 

[Pulse]

Max stop being so defensive, I posted the definition to prove that the whole "Atheism is a disbelief, it is the only way to define it! BLARGH!" argument was void, not to challenge anything you posted.

Also how can you be in a state of disbelief when you aren't even consciously aware of what exactly you are disbelieving in?

 

[Max35]

Max stop being so defensive, I posted the definition to prove that the whole "Atheism is a disbelief, it is the only way to define it! BLARGH!" argument was void, not to challenge anything you posted.

Also how can you be in a state of disbelief when you aren't even consciously aware of what exactly you are disbelieving in?

I never said it was the only way to define it, but I see your reason for posting it. The whole definition also includes "denies" that's why I said "In one sense infants are atheists."

Also, I am (and the link) defining disbelief as an "inability to believe," it kinda makes your question irrelavent. btw, I'm not getting defensive, just a little irritated that what seems simple to me, people don't understand. I always get like that during arguments, don't take it personally.

Anyway, I've had enough of debating for today, time to get some actual work done...

 

[Solaris]

who... gives... a.... ****.

 

[KagePrototype]

Let's stop being silly and getting carried away plx. One thread is enough. :x