Are we going to see Gordon in HL2?

[Yellonet]

At least until the programmers realize how cool it would be to combine the third person and first person views into one.

How would you do that?

 

[Wraithen]

We already know what he looks like. Why would you need to see him? I'd be more interested in hearing him talk.

I heard they make fun of Gordon's silence in the game... I hope it's a little more original than, "Gordon, would you let me get a word in edgeways? Sheese, it's hard to shut you up sometimes"

OK, so that sounded like they were trying to be ironic, but I was going towards the theory that Gordon speaks a whole lot... just not when we're with him. Think Morn and other perpetually silent characters

 

[monkeydust]

Apparently you are supposed to talk into your monitor when they ask you questions to help with the immersion. And you are supposed to put your hands on the monitor when picking things up so the objects are not just floating in front of you.

I, obviously, don't agree with this design decision. But, no big deal anyway.

 

[Chode]

To quote PC Powerplay #100, out of their hands on preview of Half Life 2: "You never see Gordon throughout the entire game so the illusion that you are Gordon is never broken"

 

[Wraithen]

Apparently you are supposed to talk into your monitor when they ask you questions to help with the immersion. And you are supposed to put your hands on the monitor when picking things up so the objects are not just floating in front of you.

I, obviously, don't agree with this design decision. But, no big deal anyway.

Fortunately they stopped short of providing real guns and amunition to help with the sensation of being shot... but have no fear, if you buy the Collectors edition you get a little guy named Mike who will sit next to you and hit you when you take dammage in the game.

Now you can considder yourself lucky they removed the sex scene with Alyx.... Mike's lucky too :x

 

[Chode]

Fortunately they stopped short of providing real guns and amunition to help with the sensation of being shot... but have no fear, if you buy the Collectors edition you get a little guy named Mike who will sit next to you and hit you when you take dammage in the game.

Now you can considder yourself lucky they removed the sex scene with Alyx.... Mike's lucky too :x

Just great. Video games of the future are going to come with a midget who will wack you off everytime the game action becomes "intense"

 

[She]

VALVe did not believe that a mirror effect would be convincing enough and therefor a threat to immersion.

Or they simply couldn't program a mirror..
damn.. they couldn't even fix the shadows.... kthx
(here i go again)

sure.. i dont care...

but why the hell dont you see gordons hands when he lifts objects??
You see them when he holds a gun no?

I smell (bad-programmers)

 

[satch919]

Fortunately they stopped short of providing real guns and amunition to help with the sensation of being shot... but have no fear, if you buy the Collectors edition you get a little guy named Mike who will sit next to you and hit you when you take dammage in the game.

Now you can considder yourself lucky they removed the sex scene with Alyx.... Mike's lucky too

Thats great!

 

[Chode]

I guess the hands aren't there because of clipping errors. I mean, it would be a nightmare to set up hand poses for every physical object that can be lifted or "manipulated" by hand. The shape of, say, a barrel is different to a crate is different to a tyre is different to a dead body....if you follow me.

 

[Edcrab]

Closest way you could model hands on held objects is using Trespasser-esque model latches (from portions of the object to Gordon's hands). Unless you had incredible "ragdoll" fingers that didn't flop around stupidly when you walked, you'd be left to make them a solid with the aforementioned clipping problems.

I'd rather Gordon went around with vanishing hands then the wall-grabbing item-scraping gun-dropping gangly limbs o' doom. Aka those of Trespasser.

 

[She]

I guess the hands aren't there because of clipping errors. I mean, it would be a nightmare to set up hand poses for every physical object that can be lifted or "manipulated" by hand. The shape of, say, a barrel is different to a crate is different to a tyre is different to a dead body....if you follow me.

yes.. i follow you..
but that shouldn't stop valve's programmers at all..

infact, they could have created two (hand-arm) models...
and program that they would snap to the nearest vector or simply just close them in together until they collide with a vector point.
it's hard to explain..

bah.. whatever

 

[Absinthe]

Im probally going to be flamed for this, but I dont care flame away. I still find this very stupid. If they cared about immersion so much why not get the person playing to type in there name before starting to play and they call you by your name. How you can you imagine its you when everyone that sees you calls you mr freeman. Also the not talking is rediculous, are we suppose to talk to automated scripts because thats all you will hear in the game. WHen someone ask you to do something you can reply to your computer all day saying no, but it wont matter if you dont do it, then you wont progress in the game.

You don't get it. And if you don't get it, you probably never will. At least not in the near future.

Move along.

 

[Sharasment panda]

Mirrors should definately be in the final game. This is the Source engine godammit! You should see your player model in the mirrors.

 

[Wraithen]

When I think of all the things Valve have done to strip Gordon of any personality or identity (to immerse the player more) I think of Metroid Prime. That game had a load of little touches like the reflections in ice, or in the visor of the helmet that drew me into the game regardless of the fact that I'm neither skinny, blonde, female nor a bounty hunter

 

[Absinthe]

Mirrors should definately be in the final game. This is the Source engine godammit! You should see your player model in the mirrors.

That's the problem right there. You'd see the player model.

 

[vorinoch]

Um, guys? What about that video camera with the multiple screens in the tech demo? Are there no cameras with screens anywhere in the game? If no, uh, fine, I guess. But if there is (and it's a cool enough feature to make me think they definitely included it) are you telling me that if I walked in front of it nothing would be displayed on the screens? Talk about ruining immersion, if I saw Gordon's big mug on the screen, I'd think "Hey, cool." If I saw nothing, my thoughts would probably be more akin to "OMFG tis is teh sux0rs" or some variant of that.

I can't see how VALVe wouldn't have included a Gordon model.

 

[Absinthe]

I'm not sure how they'll handle water reflections and things like that. My assumption is that you won't see yourself in them. While some people may cringe at that, I think it's an alright sacrifice, since I'm going to be more more preoccupied with other things than "OMG I DUN SEE MEH SELF".

But you're not going to have any mirrors. At least none that are positioned in such a way that you can see yourself. This is because mirrors pose a problem in HL2. If you see yourself, then you're going against Valve's design philosophy, which is that seeing a player model that doesn't represent the actual player kills immersion. And if you see nothing in a mirror, then it just feels ridiculous.

If you don't have mirrors, you don't have to worry about crap like that.

 

[vorinoch]

I see their point, but the load screen (I'm assuming) has Gordon's face on it, the game box itself has Gordon's face on it, it's on hundreds of pictures, etc., etc. The damage has been done, I know what the character I'm playing as looks like.

And there's still cameras.

 

[M1RAG3]

Or they simply couldn't program a mirror..
damn.. they couldn't even fix the shadows.... kthx
(here i go again)

sure.. i dont care...

but why the hell dont you see gordons hands when he lifts objects??
You see them when he holds a gun no?

I smell (bad-programmers)

Valve programmers are probably the best in the world. So please don't say things like "I smell (bad-programmers)". If everyone wants to see him so freaking bad, wait until it comes out and make your own little mod, for mirrors, reflections, his hands, and hell, why not use the voice program and record your own voice for all the replys to what other characters ask you. Be satisfied with what you get.

EDIT: Seriously people you are complaining about a game that you hae not even played yet, a game which hasn't even been released yet. Honestly I wouldn't care if as Gordon you ran around in a little pink ballet dancer skirt and a great big rainbow clown wig, just as long as the game came out tomorrow.

 

[Absinthe]

I see their point, but the load screen (I'm assuming) has Gordon's face on it, the game box itself has Gordon's face on it, it's on hundreds of pictures, etc., etc. The damage has been done, I know what the character I'm playing as looks like.

It's not so much about what you look like as it is other things. Gordon has a face and a name for the sake of convenience. It gives the player something that he can identify and gives NPC's something to call you by.

I've said this numerous times and I'll say it again. Gordon is a shell that you fill in. There's a reason as to why the game has no cutscenes, and why Gordon never speaks, and why you're never given a forced message of how you should be feeling. It's aimed to achieve the feeling of actually being in Gordon's shoes. Actually being Gordon as opposed to playing as Gordon.

If you look at yourself in the mirror, you're going to be seeing the player model. With current technology, we do not have what it takes for that player model to actually reflect the player. Yeah, you see Gordon, but the model isn't showing what makes up YOU. It's not showing your emotions, your reactions, your small nuances, and your movement. It's static and it's staring back at you without heart or soul. That's not you. It's just some entity that you're playing as.

And there's still cameras.

What they showed at E3 was most likely just to demonstrate what's possible with the Source engine. I doubt you are ever going to watch yourself on a camera.

 

[Wraithen]

I see their point, but the load screen (I'm assuming) has Gordon's face on it, the game box itself has Gordon's face on it, it's on hundreds of pictures, etc., etc. The damage has been done, I know what the character I'm playing as looks like.

And there's still cameras.

Well the camera thing can be solved easy enough... don't point one where the monitor is.

 

[M1RAG3]

It's not so much about what you look like as it is other things. Gordon has a face and a name for the sake of convenience. It gives the player something that he can identify and gives NPC's something to call you by.

I've said this numerous times and I'll say it again. Gordon is a shell that you fill in. There's a reason as to why the game has no cutscenes, and why Gordon never speaks, and why you're never given a forced message of how you should be feeling. It's aimed to achieve the feeling of actually being in Gordon's shoes. Actually being Gordon as opposed to playing as Gordon.

If you look at yourself in the mirror, you're going to be seeing the player model. With current technology, we do not have what it takes for that player model to actually reflect the player. Yeah, you see Gordon, but the model isn't showing what makes up YOU. It's not showing your emotions, your reactions, your small nuances, and your movement. It's static and it's staring back at you without heart or soul. That's not you. It's just some entity that you're playing as.



What they showed at E3 was most likely just to demonstrate what's possible with the Source engine. I doubt you are ever going to watch yourself on a camera.

I COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!

Let us ride to Seattle spreading this information, in order to educate those unknowing.

EDIT: To clarify to anyone that still didn't understand, the basis for HL2 gameplay is that YOU = GORDAN, not YOU = YOU, or GORDAN = GORDAN, green is good, red is bad. :thumbs:

 

[She]

Honestly I wouldn't care if as Gordon you ran around in a little pink ballet dancer skirt and a great big rainbow clown wig, just as long as the game came out tomorrow.

bullshit.


im saying..
why wont they show gordons hands when he lifts things..
they show he's hands when he holds guns...
so why dont show hands when he lifts things??
floating = loled

 

[M1RAG3]

Because that would take way to much work compared to the final product, it just wouldn't be worth it to try to program his hands to conform to every/any object the player choose to pickup, not to mention the orientation of the player and object must be considered, as well as the tilt of the player. Just wouldn't be worth it. They show hands when holding guns because that is a simple set model, with no actual physical simulations given to it.

 

[f|uke]

Holding a steering wheel should be just as easy as holding a gun,.. plenty of race games do it, no? I do think its a bit silly that you dont see gordon's hands... or body when you look down, for that matter. Or even see his hand actually reach down and pick stuff up. That would be great.

But if it was too much work to do, so be it. Still I hope that they address this for Half-Life 3..

 

[She]

Because that would take way to much work compared to the final product, it just wouldn't be worth it to try to program his hands to conform to every/any object the player choose to pickup, not to mention the orientation of the player and object must be considered, as well as the tilt of the player. Just wouldn't be worth it. They show hands when holding guns because that is a simple set model, with no actual physical simulations given to it.

....

infact, they could have created two (hand-arm) models...
and program that they would snap to the nearest vector or simply just close them in together until they collide with a vector point.

simple and clean..

you say Valve's programers are good..
well, they had quite FEW years to add simple mathematics..

But if it was too much work to do, so be it. Still I hope that they address this for Half-Life 3..

what he said.

 

[Absinthe]

bullshit.


im saying..
why wont they show gordons hands when he lifts things..
they show he's hands when he holds guns...
so why dont show hands when he lifts things??
floating = loled

Because it would simply take too much freakin' time and effort to properly shape Gordon's hands around all the numerous objects he'd be able to pick up, and if they gave one hand pose for every object, it would look stupid.

 

[poseyjmac]

Because it would simply take too much freakin' time and effort to properly shape Gordon's hands around all the numerous objects he'd be able to pick up, and if they gave one hand pose for every object, it would look stupid.

^^^ true

 

[Absinthe]

you say Valve's programers are good..
well, they had quite FEW years to add simple mathematics..

Then do it yourself when it comes out. I'll be really impressed, honest.

:\

 

[M1RAG3]

SERIOUSLY! It is not even out yet, STOP RIPPING IT APART. None of use have even played the (final) game! Come on guys, just wait until it is out, then start whining about features. We have no clue what Valve has cooked up for us, what if this entire time the whole hands thing was disabled, just so that when you play you are like, "Oh crap! My hands. GO VALVE!".

 

[Absinthe]

I think it would be best if some people would stop bitching about what the game doesn't have and be happy for what it DOES have. Some of these things you people expecting are just so ludicrous and unnecessary that I have to wonder wether or not you guys are picking nits just for the sake of it.

When you've finally played the game, ask yourself how well it worked with what it had, and wether or not you noticed how you don't see your hands when you're picking up a box. If you really felt that HL2 was lacking that oh-so-integral aspect, then you can whine and complain. As it is right now, you yourself don't know what the final product plays like. I know I'm certainly not going to give a crap about those things when I'm playing it.

 

[Wraithen]

Because it would simply take too much freakin' time and effort to properly shape Gordon's hands around all the numerous objects he'd be able to pick up, and if they gave one hand pose for every object, it would look stupid.

Model the hands as, well real hands, and then you'd just need to specify the shape for each object. Not a whole lot of extra work compared to the rest of the things they've done to make the world seem more real.

now throwing things, that's a different matter.

 

[M1RAG3]

I think it would be best if some people would stop bitching about what the game doesn't have and be happy for what it DOES have. Some of these things you people expecting are just so ludicrous and unnecessary that I have to wonder wether or not you guys are picking nits just for the sake of it.

When you've finally played the game, ask yourself how well it worked with what it had, and wether or not you noticed how you don't see your hands when you're picking up a box. If you really felt that HL2 was lacking that oh-so-integral aspect, then you can whine and complain. As it is right now, you yourself don't know what the final product plays like. I know I'm certainly not going to give a crap about those things when I'm playing it.

I concur, it makes me so angry when people start reviewing/complaining/whining about a game that is probably the most advanced game ever, with the most advanced physics and materials system ever, with the most immersion ever, and you people have the nerve to whine about HANDS!?!? For God's sake, this game has been in dev for ~5 years now, with the world's best team, and it is this close to release, with everything they have made this game into, and you want them to put in hands? Seriously.

OK. I just took my vicodin, I am all better now.

 

[Raidea]

I thought the reason they didn't add hands to the vehicle models was that people would point out that the gauss gun on the front was firing by itself...

Seems a credible excu...erm, explination to me.

On the immersion in the game, I'm sure they have researched it, it's not just,

"Lets never let the player see Gordon"
"Sounds good to me." *Takes out all mirrors*

One of the reasons HL was brilliant, for me anyway, was that I really got into the game, no cutscenes ala Metal Gear Solid to break up the action, just one shock/suprise after another.