Attacks Against Indians In Australia.

[Shyam]

First I will begin by saying that I don't give much weight to the reactionary media in India. They have labeled Australia 'racist' and one of the newspapers compared the Victorian police to the KKK in one of their cartoons. I think Indians and the media in India overreacted. Before you go on labeling a country dangerous or racist you need to look at yourself.

But can the Australians here (or people who may be following the story closely) explain to me why are Indians being targeted ? If they are being specifically targeted at all. Is it because of bad immigration policy. I've read in the article the Indians attacked usually enroll in vocational courses and are willing to work for much less than the locals.

So yeah input in that regard will be appreciated.

 

[Sloth]

IMO - The Indians aren't targeted in most cases, just that when an Indian gets stabbed its all over the media even if in the next bed of the hospital is a 37 year old Aussie with even worse wounds.

They are targets due to the nature of the industries that many of them work in, while a slight generalization, many of the attacks have been while those Indians have been at work.

Taxi drivers and other workers on the late night, early morning shifts have contact with those drunk and stupid enough to hurt someone instead of paying for a Taxi fare.

Its not like there are gangs of people walking around bashing with racist sentiments, more drunks and criminals that are bloody stupid in the middle of the night. Which I would assume has always to some extent happened, just now it is reported as "racially motivated".

 

[KoreBolteR]

they refused to celebrate australia day of course!

 

[Shyam]

Its not like there are gangs of people walking around bashing with racist sentiments, more drunks and criminals that are bloody stupid in the middle of the night. Which I would assume has always to some extent happened, just now it is reported as "racially motivated".

So are you saying that the Indians are getting attacked because they travel late at night and walk through unsafe places. And these incidents are highlighted to have a racial tone to the attacks which in reality are just criminal attacks ?

 

[xdrive]

What is very frustrating about all of this is the Indian media spreading lies.

Every time an Indian is attacked they spam everywhere "racist attack"

I have news for them, crime happens to everyone, everywhere regardless of race.

I think only about 2 incidents with Indians have been found to be racially provoked.

The fact is that most Indian students in Melbourne work dangerous jobs. They work as cab drivers, they work in service stations late at night, they work at 7/11 at night. They are bound to get drunken idiots coming and doing shit. It would happen to anyone of any race working those jobs at night.

Also as the victorian police commissioner said, criminals pray on people who look like they are easy targets. A new Indian student or a new student from anywhere would be a good target for a mugging. It's not like a criminal says to himself "hmm i'm only going to rob Indians because i don't like Indians"

This is what the Indian media is doing, they are making out that gangs of people are just walking around looking for Indian people to bash, that is just totally ignorant and stupid.

With that Indian man who was stabbed to death, the Indian media prints everywhere "racist attack" How can they know it's a racist attack before the police have even started investigating? Have they conducted there own investigation? Of course not, they just want to incite fear. You speak to some Indians online and they have the impression that Australia is a very very dangerous place and if they come here they will be killed, all because there media and government has been betraying Australia like that.

The funniest thing about this all is that Indians are actually safer in Australia then there own country.

India has 65,000 murders a year, one of the highest murder rates in the world according to the UN. Yet, they make out that our country, with one of the lowest crime rates in the world, is very very dangerous.

 

[Vegeta897]

India has 65,000 murders a year, one of the highest murder rates in the world according to the UN.

That's completely ignoring the fact that India has one ****ing huge population. If you want a fair comparison, you have to talk about murders per 1000 people per year.

 

[Sparta]

What Sloth and Xdrive have said is pretty much how Australia and Melbourne see's it. The only person I've ever known to have said something offensive about Indian people, is mate of mine who's just offensive to everyone, period.

Unfortunately, a lot of those attacked are Indian students who are over here working minimum-wage jobs that expose them to a much higher risk of assault than others. Especially cab drivers. Any Melburnian will tell you there's too much drunkeness and violence in the city on the weekend as well. Combine that with everyone taking cabs home and you're bound to run into problems.

I don't think there's a racism issue here, I think it's a drinking issue here that's the problem.

 

[xdrive]

That's completely ignoring the fact that India has one ****ing huge population. If you want a fair comparison, you have to talk about murders per 1000 people per year.

There is no need to swear.

I was just simply stating that they have 65,000 murders a year. Infac,t i copied that line from the Victorian police commissioner.

 

[Vegeta897]

That doesn't mean anything though, unless you're looking at in the context of the comparatively large population of the country. If you're trying to prove that India is more dangerous, then you want to talk about amount of murders per capita per year, not just some number that is directly affected by the size of the population. If you had a country that had 10 billion people your "murder rate" would be incredibly high, but that doesn't mean it's a dangerous country. It could be the safest in the world.

India ranks #26 in murders per capita. Below USA.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

The media overreacting? HAS THE WORLD GONE MAD?!

 

[xdrive]

That doesn't mean anything though, unless you're looking at in the context of the comparatively large population of the country. If you're trying to prove that India is more dangerous, then you want to talk about amount of murders per capita per year, not just some number that is directly affected by the size of the population. If you had a country that had 10 billion people your "murder rate" would be incredibly high, but that doesn't mean it's a dangerous country. It could be the safest in the world.

India ranks #26 in murders per capita. Below USA.

65,000 people murdered is still a very high number, even if it it's considered low because of per capita. That's still 65,000 people getting killed each year.

 

[Vegeta897]

Okay, I'm not even going to attempt to explain this further because I can't say anything else without repeating myself. You clearly do not understand basic logic.

Here's one last try though, for fun:

"very high number" is a RELATIVE term. If the country had 30 billion people, 65k would be a very LOW number. When talking about how dangerous a country is, you have to compare the amount of people murdered to the overall population. It's called a ratio. In other words you could work out the average chance of getting murdered if you lived in India. India has quite a large population, so 65k isn't as high as a number as it would be in a country with a much smaller population.

 

[Sloth]

I don't think there's a racism issue here, I think it's a drinking issue here that's the problem.

We are dealing with alot of careless drinking culture coming to rear its ugly head - binge drinking and a young population without both a real place in the world or a vision of a good future.

That and the bogans from the outer West Suburbs party in the city...

 

[xdrive]

Okay, I'm not even going to attempt to explain this further because I can't say anything else without repeating myself. You clearly do not understand basic logic.

Here's one last try though, for fun:

"very high number" is a RELATIVE term. If the country had 30 billion people, 65k would be a very LOW number. When talking about how dangerous a country is, you have to compare the amount of people murdered to the overall population. It's called a ratio. In other words you could work out the average chance of getting murdered if you lived in India. India has quite a large population, so 65k isn't as high as a number as it would be in a country with a much smaller population.

I understand perfectly what you are talking about, you don't understand my intention for posting it. Everything you have just told me, i already knew. I just simply stated that they have 65,000 murders a year and it's high in my eyes, 100 murders is high in my mind. I don't give a shit about per capita etc, the per capita may be low yes, but 65,000 people a year are still getting murdered. This is not what i want the discussion to turn into.

We are dealing with alot of careless drinking culture coming to rear its ugly head - binge drinking and a young population without both a real place in the world or a vision of a good future.

That and the bogans from the outer West Suburbs party in the city...

I agree. In Melbourne we have problems with ethnic groups causing troubles. The Lebanese youth for example. They think they have this reputation of being tough just because they are Lebanese, and to keep that reputation they often get in fights just to make themselfs look tough. I know numerous people who have been bashed by "wogs" (as they call themselfs) because they just looked at them. The violence mainly happens around the city where all the clubs and pubs are, alcohol is a big factor.

Also a big thing now is knife crime. In a suburb called dandenong, the large portion of the people living there are immigrants, and they all fight each other and stab each other because of race. The blacks fight the asians then the asians fight the wogs then wogs fight the blacks. It's just getting out of control.

Welcome to multiculturalism.

 

[Vegeta897]

That's fine, but you saying this: "one of the highest murder rates in the world according to the UN." is implying that you're trying to act like India is one of the most dangerous countries. It's a misleading statistic.

It basically looks like you're abandoning your argument, because the only reason you stated this to begin with was in rebuttal to Indians being afraid of living in Australia. Now you're saying "oh any amount of murders is high to me" Which could be said about Australia too so your point has kind of dissolved.

 

[xdrive]

That's fine, but you saying this: "one of the highest murder rates in the world according to the UN." is implying that you're trying to act like India is one of the most dangerous countries. It's a misleading statistic.

It basically looks like you're abandoning your argument, because the only reason you stated this to begin with was in rebuttal to Indians being afraid of living in Australia. Now you're saying "oh any amount of murders is high to me" Which could be said about Australia too so your point has kind of dissolved.

Ok great, come back when you would like to discuss the topic.

god its annoying when people come in and start arguing and debating over something so small. Stay on topic.

 

[Vegeta897]

I'm going to address a faulty argument when I see one. It's not offtopic at all. This is part of the debate process.

 

[xdrive]

I'm going to address a faulty argument when I see one. It's not offtopic at all. This is part of the debate process.

No one is debating anything, we are discussing a topic.

The only person debating is you, you are trying to turn what i have said into a debate. We are discussing the topic.

Enough derailing now.

 

[Sloth]

Also a big thing now is knife crime. In a suburb called dandenong, the large portion of the people living there are immigrants, and they all fight each other and stab each other because of race. The blacks fight the asians then the asians fight the wogs then wogs fight the blacks. It's just getting out of control.

Welcome to multiculturalism.

I think it all ends up happening when people identify themselves more with where their grandparents came from than being Australians. Hell, I'm half-blood Polish but if anybody ever asked me where I come from it would be Australia - same applies to my father, even if he only started speaking English when he got to school and Polish at home.

The 'nong isn't that bad - just wait till you drive past the biggest baby store in the southern hemisphere in Frankghanistan (Frankston).

 

[Shyam]

Thanks for the input. I was just curious about the matter, as I did not hear a cohesive reason for the attacks happening.

 

[xdrive]

I think it all ends up happening when people identify themselves more with where their grandparents came from than being Australians. Hell, I'm half-blood Polish but if anybody ever asked me where I come from it would be Australia - same applies to my father, even if he only started speaking English when he got to school and Polish at home.

The 'nong isn't that bad - just wait till you drive past the biggest baby store in the southern hemisphere in Frankghanistan (Frankston).

Exactly, i completely agree. My ancestors came from Scotland, but i identifie myself as Australian. You ask a kid with parents from Lebanon, he will be like "Yeh im lebo" Even though he was born here and is an aussie citizen.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

It's Australia. What did you guys expect?

 

[xdrive]

Just heard on the news, "Indians storm Australian High commission in India" /facepalm

"Indians mobs have stormed the grounds of the Australian High commision in new delhi, whilst shouting racist anti-australian chants. They were stopped from entering the building by the police. The protestors claim Indians are being tortured in Australia like how the British tortured Indians when they ruled Indian."

lol.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

I hope they bomb the shit out of the Aussie embassy or w/e. **** yeah.

It's Australia. What did you guys expect?

Poisoning by animals? That place is a deathtrap.

 

[xdrive]

I hope they bomb the shit out of the Aussie embassy or w/e. **** yeah.

I hope al qaeda terrorists bomb the shit out of U.S airplanes or w/e. **** yeah.


Hoping that innocent people of a certain nationality get killed just to insult someone is fun.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Only when it's on topic.

 

[Sparta]

I agree. In Melbourne we have problems with ethnic groups causing troubles. The Lebanese youth for example. They think they have this reputation of being tough just because they are Lebanese, and to keep that reputation they often get in fights just to make themselfs look tough. I know numerous people who have been bashed by "wogs" (as they call themselfs) because they just looked at them. The violence mainly happens around the city where all the clubs and pubs are, alcohol is a big factor.

Also a big thing now is knife crime. In a suburb called dandenong, the large portion of the people living there are immigrants, and they all fight each other and stab each other because of race. The blacks fight the asians then the asians fight the wogs then wogs fight the blacks. It's just getting out of control.

Welcome to multiculturalism.

Stop reading The Herald Sun. Tabloid newspapers and shitty tv "journalism" like A Current Affair and Today Tonight love to play up crimes committed by ethnicities as if they are the main problem in society. As if it's those cultures and ethnicity that cause the problems, and not this masculine need for some guys to act out violently in order to establish some control in their life. It's far more to do with socio-economic conditions of those suburbs than it is about cultures clashing and anyone who is saying otherwise is trying to stir up racial outrage and prejudice to profit off it, just like the Indian press is trying to do now and just like News Corp press do all the ****ing time.

I know far more people who have gotten into fights with bogans, than have gotten into fights with anyone else. Don't go buying that "multiculturalism is bad" bullshit when all it does is aggravate tension and prejudice.

 

[xdrive]

Stop reading The Herald Sun. Tabloid newspapers and shitty tv "journalism" like A Current Affair and Today Tonight love to play up crimes committed by ethnicities as if they are the main problem in society. As if it's those cultures and ethnicity that cause the problems, and not this masculine need for some guys to act out violently in order to establish some control in their life. It's far more to do with socio-economic conditions of those suburbs than it is about cultures clashing and anyone who is saying otherwise is trying to stir up racial outrage and prejudice to profit off it, just like the Indian press is trying to do now and just like News Corp press do all the ****ing time.

I know far more people who have gotten into fights with bogans, than have gotten into fights with anyone else. Don't go buying that "multiculturalism is bad" bullshit when all it does is aggravate tension and prejudice.

I don't read the herald sun or any tabloid shit. I have been out and experienced most of it all.

You go speak to any youth who's parents are from Lebanon or some other country around that area. They will tell you that they are Lebanese and they honestly think that. Yet, they are born here and are Australian citizens. They run around saying "we hate aussies" "bash aussies" "yeh im lebo" yet, there aussie themselfs.

And because they think they are lebo, they think there tough. You even look at them, they will bash you, just to keep up there reputation of being tough. It's happened time and time and time again to people i know, also you hear it on the evening news all the time.

And it's funny you mention "bogans" Bogan has lost all it's meaning. The meaning of a bogan now, is a white Australian who is patriotic. Like you get a white guy who has a strong Australian accent and then has a patriotic aussie flag tattoo, instantly he's classed as a bogan. That's just stupid.

 

[Sloth]

Australia as a country has a massive violence and drinking problem.

Its a bloody fact that the younger generations binge drink and do bloody stupid shit.

Take the 5 dead in the car crash a few weeks ago, he had broken 4 road rules when he was driving let alone the fact that he killed his friends. What did his mates do beside the site where he crashed? Toasted him with a beer.

What would be labeled as border-line alcoholism in other countries isn't really even frowned upon here. Hell - I was blotto every night of last weekend, while more of my mates were far drunker than me.

Its something that needs to change with education, but I truly think my generation is a lost cause.

 

[xdrive]

Australia as a country has a massive violence and drinking problem.

Its a bloody fact that the younger generations binge drink and do bloody stupid shit.

Take the 5 dead in the car crash a few weeks ago, he had broken 4 road rules when he was driving let alone the fact that he killed his friends. What did his mates do beside the site where he crashed? Toasted him with a beer.

What would be labeled as border-line alcoholism in other countries isn't really even frowned upon here. Hell - I was blotto every night of last weekend, while more of my mates were far drunker than me.

Its something that needs to change with education, but I truly think my generation is a lost cause.

No stuff education, let's just impose a tax on mixed drinks, that will surely curve the problem. :stare:

lol kevin rudd.

 

[Sloth]

lol kevin rudd.

Just missed out on being old enough to vote for the last Federal Election, hope I can help vote out the dickhead - but for Tony?

 

[xdrive]

Just missed out on being old enough to vote for the last Federal Election, hope I can help vote out the dickhead - but for Tony?

You don't have to vote for either of them..... Most people don't realize this. They just think it's between the 2 parties, if you dislike the 2 parties vote for another party. If another party like the greens can get enough seats then they form government.

 

[Eejit]

Voting for the Greens, that's hilarious wherever you live.

 

[xdrive]

Voting for the Greens, that's hilarious wherever you live.

Not really, the Australian greens are not what you expect.

As i was thinking about other parties to vote for in Australia, i noticed that there isn't many big ones except labor, liberals, the greens and that's it lol.

 

[Sparta]

And it's funny you mention "bogans" Bogan has lost all it's meaning. The meaning of a bogan now, is a white Australian who is patriotic. Like you get a white guy who has a strong Australian accent and then has a patriotic aussie flag tattoo, instantly he's classed as a bogan. That's just stupid.

That's never been the meaning of bogan, nor has it become it. A bogan has always been the equivalent to trailer trash for Australia. The fact that some are patriotic doesn't even come into play. You're confusing bogan with larrikin.

I think you really examine some of shit you've said in the past few weeks.

Saying there are moderate muslims is like saying there are moderate nazi's

They are obviously uncivilized

They run around saying "we hate aussies" "bash aussies"

In a suburb called Dandenong, the large portion of the people living there are immigrants, and they all fight each other and stab each other because of race. The blacks fight the asians then the asians fight the wogs then wogs fight the blacks. It's just getting out of control.

 

[Shyam]

It's Australia. What did you guys expect?

I see what you did thar.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Listen to xdrive at your own risk...

Oh boy.

 

[xdrive]

That's never been the meaning of bogan, nor has it become it. A bogan has always been the equivalent to trailer trash for Australia. The fact that some are patriotic doesn't even come into play. You're confusing bogan with larrikin.

That's never been the definition of a bogan? Well how come i constantly see people like that being called a bogan? :hmph:

Also it's funny how you quote what i said about "Lebanese" Australians and act as if it's wrong. The simple fact is my statement is true. "Lebanese" Australian youth do not recognized them selfs as Australian. Infact they only recognize themselfs as Lebanese when they were born here and are Australian citizens, That's also why i find the term "Lebanese Australian" stupid.

I often see see these youths spouting anti Australian statements in the street and on tv. They honestly believe they are Lebanese when they are clearly not.

Here is an excellent video by a guy who is actually of Lebanese decent who basically says the same thing as me. I invite you to watch it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv6-tsV5Xj0

"The issue is, Lebanese youth of Australia have an identity crisis, they have a problem. They seriously do. They don't want to be Australian, and they don't know what it is to be Lebanese because they have no idea, so you know what they do? They adopt another culture. And you know what culture they decided to adopt? American gangster culture."

Here is a video of some of the "confused" so called "Lebanese" Australians, who only think they are Lebanese

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWsrnlJhZrE

Here is a video of a news story about another confused Australian who thinks he is Lebanese burning our flag and urinating on it. If only someone would tell him he's not Lebanese, he's actually born here and is a citizen. "oh my parents are Lebanese, that makes me Lebanese."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5A1me6mFgo

 

[Sparta]

Once again, you prove yourself to be an idiot. You posted a video from an Australian-Lebanese youth (who calls himself and others like him Australian-Lebanese/Lebanese-Australian) who hates the gangster culture of other Lebanese youths, as proof that all Lebanese youths are inherently violent.

To say that video is proof of your argument is contradictory and illogical. On top of that you're using that guy's anecdotal evidence as proof that Lebanese youths are violent by nature which in itself is a logical fallacy, on top of already being a massive generalization.

Look at the quote you've selected

"The issue is, Lebanese youth of Australia have an identity crisis, they have a problem. They seriously do. They don't want to be Australian, and they don't know what it is to be Lebanese because they have no idea, so you know what they do? They adopt another culture. And you know what culture they decided to adopt? American gangster culture."

He's right, that's exactly what they've done. Why have they adopted it though?

They've adopted this gangster culture because it dominates popular culture in the western world, and all youths across all demographics have in some way adopted similar popular cultures into their lives in the process of growing up. The most common aspect in relation to violence in the city, is that the majority of violent offenders have come from low income backgrounds and neighbourhoods where they and their friends have adopted outwardly aggressive attitudes and stances towards people of authority (teachers, police, etc) as a means to establish some control in their otherwise uncontrollable and pigeon-holed lives. Then they have begun to see similarities with their lives and the gangster culture through it's exposure in popular culture (film, tv, music) and they adopt it.

Think about it. Every time there is a charge in the media about ethnicities its almost always about their gangs of youths and it's almost always about a demographic or people that have only in the last generation fled a war-torn country as refugees. Vietnamese, Lebanese, Somalian, Sudanese, all these people have fled or moved to Australia because of conflict.

So what kind of income bracket do you assume a majority of these migrants might end up in? How many do you think were lucky enough to have a formal education greater than high school before their country was torn apart by war or conflict? What kind of jobs do you reckon the majority will have to work, moving from a second/third world nation with very little possessions to a first world country with a much higher cost of living, so they can afford a roof over their heads? What income bracket do you think that puts them in? What is societies answer when their kids adopt a violent culture as a means of acting out their frustration at that society? It's assimilate or get the **** out. As if failure to assimilate and adopt Australian culture is the problem.

So this nonsense that it's multiculturalism that's the problem is not true, at all. If you want to solve the problem of youth violence you need to look and what causes them to act out this way, and the answer isn't their parents culture, it's poverty.

Saying that Lebanese youths...

..***n around saying "we hate aussies" "bash aussies"

-that's just bullshit. Just like the Indian media...

are making out that gangs of people are just walking around looking for Indian people to bash, that is just totally ignorant and stupid.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

This is the politics forum! We don't want any of your "logic" or "reason" in here!