Barbaric honor killing Britian - Culture or religion or all of the above.

repiV said:
Deciding important national policy on anything other than how it will benefit the nation is beyond moronic. Just like I said - warm fuzzy feelings and peace and love and shit.
We aren't a bloody charity and we aren't a communist country either, so you can put away your nationalised jobs and services too.
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Well sorry for caring for the welfare of common man.
How on earth can you sit there and preach about the awesomeness of multiculturalism when you don't even know what it is?

Multiculturalism means lots of disparate cultures occupying the same society, it's the complete opposite to integration. American society is not remotely multicultural, it's the complete opposite - they demand that immigrants assimilate into American culture.
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Multi-culturalism leads to intergration, just look at how many british people cook curry at home.
 
Solaris said:
Well sorry for caring for the welfare of common man.
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You mean the welfare of everyone except your fellow citizens and the country that has provided for you for 17 years.

Multi-culturalism leads to intergration, just look at how many british people cook curry at home.
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No, multi-culturalism prevents integreation. Having a high immigrant population does not necessitate multiculturalism.

multiculturalism

noun
the doctrine that several different cultures (rather than one national culture) can coexist peacefully and equitably in a single country

Integration by definition means that one assimilates into the national culture. Multiculturalism leading to integration is a paradox.
 
repiV said:
You mean the welfare of everyone except your fellow citizens.
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I don't see how this matters in the slightest. 'Fellow citizens'. Are we technically not all, fellow citizens? I don't exactly care anymore or less for the people outside of this country than I do those in it.
 
Mutliculturalism doesn't neccesarily lead to integration. There are a lot of places where Muslims immigrants simply do not want to integrate, to be assimilated into the local community, and this is often encouraged by Imams. This is one case where multiculturalism doesn't work at all. Whether or not multiculturalism will be successful depends on which ethnicity and religious identity the immigrants have. For example, there is a popular ideology that says "Muslim first, -Insert nationality- second." And if you truly consider yourself a Muslim, and you really believe in Islamic supremacy, you will not be able to integrate.

Gotta admit, by the way, I'm more a fan of the Indians' music than of their food! :p
 
Nemesis6 said:
Mutliculturalism doesn't neccesarily lead to integration. There are a lot of places where Muslims immigrants simply do not want to integrate, to be assimilated into the local community, and this is often encouraged by Imams. This is one case where multiculturalism doesn't work at all. Whether or not multiculturalism will be successful depends on which ethnicity and religious identity the immigrants have. For example, there is a popular ideology that says "Muslim first, -Insert nationality- second." And if you truly consider yourself a Muslim, and you really believe in Islamic supremacy, you will not be able to integrate.

Gotta admit, by the way, I'm more a fan of the Indians' music than of their food! :p
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I'm getting damn tired of you telling me what British Imams and such do and how poorly intergrated Muslims are over here with no evidence nor having ever lived here.


SEVEN THOUSANDTH POST!
 
Samon said:
I don't see how this matters in the slightest. 'Fellow citizens'. Are we technically not all, fellow citizens?
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His "caring for my fellow man" seems only to extend to poor brown people from faraway lands. It's almost like he's just making some kind of rebellious point by boastfully not giving a shit about his own country and indiscriminately being caring to the point of being a mug to everyone else (well, so he says - but I haven't seen him put his money where his mouth is yet).
 
repiV said:
His "caring for my fellow man" seems only to extend to poor brown people from faraway lands. It's almost like he's just making some kind of rebellious point by boastfully not giving a shit about his own country and indiscriminately being caring to the point of being a mug to everyone else (well, so he says - but I haven't seen him put his money where his mouth is yet).
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I don't give a shit about richy mc rich rich
 
Solaris said:
I don't give a shit about richy mc rich rich
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Who or what the **** is "richy mc rich rich"? And are you going to spew hatred at your precious poor brown people when they occasionally actually make something of themselves and become the "richy mc rich rich" you hate so much?
 
repiV said:
Who or what the **** is "richy mc rich rich"? And are you going to spew hatred at your precious poor brown people when they occasionally actually make something of themselves and become the "richy mc rich rich" you hate so much?
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Yes, helping starving people would mean hurting the lifestyle of the very wealthy in our society, but that is a price I am willing to pay.
 
Solaris said:
Yes, helping starving people would mean hurting the lifestyle of the very wealthy in our society, but that is a price I am willing to pay.
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Firstly, no it wouldn't.
Secondly, how exactly do you define "very wealthy"? Someone on the average wage in London is richer than 99.04% of the world's population - are us Londoners evil scum who must be sacrified for the greater good of giving handouts to failed economies?
I'm pretty sure your household income is higher than that amount too - why aren't you donating your soul to Oxfam?
 
repiV said:
Firstly, no it wouldn't.
Secondly, how exactly do you define "very wealthy"? Someone on the average wage in London is richer than 99.04% of the world's population - are us Londoners evil scum who must be sacrified for the greater good of giving handouts to failed economies?
I'm pretty sure your household income is higher than that amount too - why aren't you donating your soul to Oxfam?
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I support international socialism as well as giving part of my wages to charity.
 
Solaris said:
I support international socialism as well as giving part of my wages to charity.
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Well, at least you do the charity thing. I have to give you credit for that much.
Other than that, you support a totalitarian mechanism of oppression and nightmare you don't really understand that would make everyone on earth desperately poor, and the third world even poorer than it is already. It would have the added effects of eventually regressing the human race into the stone age and shattering any hopes of a better future for anybody. Congratulations.
You seem to have far too high an opinion of yourself though, considering you're one of those "richy mcrich rich" people as you put it...
 
repiV said:
Well, at least you do the charity thing. I have to give you credit for that much.
Other than that, you support a totalitarian mechanism of oppression and nightmare you don't really understand that would make everyone on earth desperately poor, and the third world even poorer than it is already. It would have the added effects of eventually regressing the human race into the stone age and shattering any hopes of a better future for anybody. Congratulations.
You seem to have far too high an opinion of yourself though, considering you're one of those "richy mcrich rich" people as you put it...
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I don't understand it? Tell me, if you can, what Socialist Material have you read? Have you ever read anything by Karl Marx? How is it that you understand socialism so well?
 
Solaris said:
I don't understand it? Tell me, if you can, what Socialist Material have you read? Have you ever read anything by Karl Marx? How is it that you understand socialism so well?
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If you have to challenge me to read books written by long dead men that are completely irrelevant to the modern world, who leave behind them a legacy of failed experiments and the worst humanitarian disasters ever to befall the human race, in order to defend your supposedly humanitarian ideals, it means you're clutching at straws.
 
repiV said:
If you have to challenge me to read books written by long dead men that are completely irrelevant to the modern world, who leave behind them a legacy of failed experiments and the worst humanitarian disasters ever to befall the human race, in order to defend your supposedly humanitarian ideals, it means you're clutching at straws.
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Completely relevant, only one experiment that took place under the worst of conditions, and the disasters nothing to do with socialism.
 
Solaris said:
Completely relevant, only one experiment that took place under the worst of conditions, and the disasters nothing to do with socialism.
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You just keep telling yourself that.
Meanwhile, why don't you stop commievangelising and move to Cuba already?
 
Nemesis6 said:
RepiV, what I understand about your immigration system is that there are a lot of Pakistani and Indian Muslims/Hindu/whatever groups that have trouble integrating into your society, and as far as I've seen, you have major problems saying no when it's needed. Al Muhajiroun comes to mind, but on that issue, you are better than the Danes; We have not forbidden Hizb Ut Tahrir, and you have.
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Not going to wade into this tired debate, but this statement is wrong. Hizb ut-Tahrir is not banned in the UK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hizb_ut_tahrir#United_Kingdom
 
repiV said:
You just keep telling yourself that.
Meanwhile, why don't you stop commievangelising and move to Cuba already?
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Because I don't think Cuba is that great a regime.
 
I'm afraid this is more common than we think, especially in first generation families. They keep the daughters under very strict control while letting their sons do whatever the hell they want.
 
The guys who perpetrated the crime in the OP are pieces of shit who don't even qualify to say the word 'honour'. I hope they get raped and ****ing have their throats stamped flat in prison like they did to that girl.

These so-called (lack-of-) 'honour' killings are only one cultural 'tradition' rearing its head in the UK though. Can you say 'female circumcision'...? Better and more accurately called plain old 'genital mutilation'. Check this out:
BBC said:
In June 2005, new figures showed that up to 76,000 women living in the UK may have undergone illegal operations. An estimated 7,000 girls are still thought to be at risk. No one has yet been prosecuted, although health professionals claim that girls living in Britain have been circumcised in operations overseas organised by family members.

In 2004, the UK government closed a loophole to prevent young women from being taken abroad for circumcision. The then home secretary, David Blunkett, condemned genital cutting as "very harmful" and warned that parents would face imprisonment if they broke the law.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/ethics/femalecircumcision/femalecirc_6.shtml
Typical of that eternal twat, Blunkett. 'Very harmful'? I wish he could have stuck around in the cabinet, maybe he could have told us that prejudice on the basis of race is 'racist'? That murder is 'fatal'? To hell with Islam tbh.
 
Solaris, your Imams are known to hold such positions. You've probably seen Dispatches: Undercover Mosque, right? I don't know where it's worse: In Denmark, our Imams are known as speaking with "two tongues". So even though an Imam might seem moderate, and not particularly "orthodox", he might very well be practicing taqiyya; Lying to defend Islam.
 
It explains alot. Now shut up.
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To be honest Samon, I think the lot of you (Nemisis, Stern, RepiV) are adding a lot of, "fuel to the fire" with quick knee-jerk retorts. I can understand why some of you do them, and me coming in here to be Mr. GoodyTwoShoes is not helping my point or the legitimacy of it.

However,
It might be difficult for all of you to get along but this calling names shit is getting a little old on the, "Make the other person look like a stink butt face" agenda. It might be a wise thing, instead of insulting each other publicly, to factually rebutting each others claims maturely. I might be the last one to say this, but hey, if its me then there's definately a problem here.

Personal Aside (Going back on topic):

Add standard Kerberos reply on how I feel this incident is doing nothing more then slandering the people who practise Islam as a religion, not a fanatical/fasso excuse to impose world agenda.
 
K e r b e r o s said:
.....Add standard Kerberos reply on how I feel this incident is doing nothing more then slandering the people who practise Islam as a religion, not a fanatical/fasso excuse to impose world agenda.
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There is no basis in Islam for "honour killings" it is a social practice, not a religious one. It actually pre-dates Islam, and is not a custom that is limited to "Islamic" countries.

Incidentally, all the above is true of "female circumcision".
 
@female circumcision - it is a social practice, but one that has come to have religious/cultural significance in some parts of the community. 'Islam' describes a culture as a well as a belief system. Just as the practice of wearing the niqab is not explicitly ordered in the Quran, some sectors of the community just see it as 'the done thing' as dictated by their religion (although I'm not trying to say that FGC is anywhere near as widespread).

While the roots of this thing (genital mutilation, that is) don't lie within the religion, the chauvinistic attitudes which tend to come with islam do nothing to stop the practice being perpetuated.

Around the world, female genital mutilation has been known to be practiced in communities of other religions, including christian ones. The difference is that the unpopularity, censure and ridicule which is a rationalising force against some religions has not yet been applied properly to islam.
 
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