beyond... into teh futurexxor...

E

epoch-

Guest
ok... let's think...

HL: the orriginal, great awesome stuff. scripted sequences, breakable things, nifty AI, awesome neat stuff... named "Best PC Game Ever"

HL2: Realistic physics... ('nuff said almost...), non scripted sequences, excellent AI, awesome vehicular control...

the only things the source engine can't do yet are...:
1) Make bullets into entities (not because it can't, just because system reqs aren't awesome enough yet to handle it :borg: )
2) Make water leak out realistically (holy crap... when stuff can do this, i'll just will myself to die because computer systems will pwn my soul)
3) Make realistic sound dynamics (which can be faked easily enough with sound effects

Which of these things do you guys think will be implimented in HL3, and what do you think we'll see that we haven't thought of yet?

/me waits for fully emersive PCs...
 
epoch- said:
ok... let's think...

HL: the orriginal, great awesome stuff. scripted sequences, breakable things, nifty AI, awesome neat stuff... named "Best PC Game Ever"

HL2: Realistic physics... ('nuff said almost...), non scripted sequences, excellent AI, awesome vehicular control...

the only things the source engine can't do yet are...:
1) Make bullets into entities (not because it can't, just because system reqs aren't awesome enough yet to handle it :borg: )
2) Make water leak out realistically (holy crap... when stuff can do this, i'll just will myself to die because computer systems will pwn my soul)
3) Make realistic sound dynamics (which can be faked easily enough with sound effects

Which of these things do you guys think will be implimented in HL3, and what do you think we'll see that we haven't thought of yet?

/me waits for fully emersive PCs...
Click to expand...

I want #2 :thumbs:
 
Simulated water is one of those things just like true AI that won't be seen for generations of games. I wouldn't be surprised if they still have created simulated water in 20 years.
 
ROFL, In 20 years this world will be kown as the "Jetsons"
 
I want fluid dynamics and air dynamics. I want to be able to fly a chopper, turn the engines off and have the air turn the blades of the chopper to gain some lift. I'm sure as time goes valve will work on this for the source engine.
 
turning off the engines of a chopper gives you lift?
 
fluid dynamics actually don't seem like they'd be that hard... it's just equalizing volume and making it function without animations...

They have gravity, that eliminates the movement problem... it seems like it'd just be a large math problem for the water to figure out where to go, how fast to go due to pressure, and figuring out a way to make it move...

hrmm... i'm sure with some work they could do it...

but when they do :borg: > :)
 
the problem with creating fluid dynamics is that its just so incredibly complex...much MUCH MUCH more complicated than simulating real life physics in objects.
 
if i had the choice of playing a game with fluid dynamics or Half-Life 2 right now id choose HL2.
 
RTFMish said:
ROFL, In 20 years this world will be kown as the "Jetsons"
Click to expand...

They said that when that show came out about it would be like that "around the turn of the century" ;p
 
vicefredav444 said:
I want fluid dynamics and air dynamics. I want to be able to fly a chopper, turn the engines off and have the air turn the blades of the chopper to gain some lift. I'm sure as time goes valve will work on this for the source engine.
Click to expand...
er.....what the hell?


kaf11: "turning off the engines of a chopper gives you lift?"

How does that work?
 
"some lift". it will still be falling, but there will be resistance because the falling in the air causes the blades to spin, so it creates some force opposite to gravity, ie. lift. that's not to say the helicopter wil go up, it's just saying that it will fall slower than it would if it were just a concrete lump in the shape of a helicopter where the air didnt spin the blades and create a small amount of lift.

thats how i read it, at least.
 
fluid dynamics won't take very long before they are implemented in games. they can already be made, just not for games, because they take up too much processer power and can't be rendered in real time.
 
It can do bullets (Look at the gunships and the helicopter), it just doesn't use them for hand-held weapons because it doesn't really have to...
 
Max Payne was able to draw individual bullets, Half-Life 2 just doesn't need it. Unless Valve decided to stick some bullet-time in there somewhere. :)
 
Anthraxxx said:
er.....what the hell?
kaf11: "turning off the engines of a chopper gives you lift?"
How does that work?
Click to expand...

It's called Autorotation. It is used in extreme helicopter emergencies such as engine failure to 'glide' down. When the nose is dipped and the rotor pitch is adjusted the air speed from forward motion causes the rotors to spin. This creates just enough lift to counter the falling - but the helicopter has to be moving forward fast enough to create this effect. When the rotor is spinning fast enough the pilot can flair the chopper (pull the nose up) at the point of landing. Of course this is a stall and has to be performed with skill and timing otherwise the rotor speed will drop too much and the helicopter will plummet without enough altitude to pick up autorotation again.

Gyrocopters use it to fly - there is no drive to the main rotor, only the rear fan which pushes the thing forwards. as it moves forward, the passing air causes the rotors to turn, and the pitch of the rotor creates enough lift to get the thing in the air.

here endeth the lesson ;)

If this were possible in game dynamics, never mind HL3, it would mean big bucks to the military and major airlines of the world in their pilot training simulation programmes...
 
i like the use of properly simulated bullets - there's nothing better than playing a sniping level on operation flashpoint and having to aim ahead of your target when you fire. Plus this could be combined with the use of momentum in ragdoll for some scarily realistic sniper takedown shots. :sniper:
 
KagePrototype said:
Max Payne was able to draw individual bullets, Half-Life 2 just doesn't need it. Unless Valve decided to stick some bullet-time in there somewhere. :)
Click to expand...

that'd be interesting.

as the saying goes... 'maybe in a mod'
 
I'd far rather see improved Statics modelling so that I can blow buildings apart. I have a feeling this would be a lot easier than Fluid dynamics, and more fun in a gameplay sense.

Having said that the B&W2 team say then can create some nice lava flows :)
 
Having just done a Fluid mechanics exam I can say it is definately very hard (3 hours of "oh, god, no!"), but still like most stuff rests on a few main principle equations which could be put into the game ... but it would indeed require much processing, and I would rather see it first in a game where it's actually going to make a difference than have it put into HL2 pointlessly :)

Having said that the B&W2 team say then can create some nice lava flows
Click to expand...
That would be only basic fluid mechanics I'm sure, and esp. seeing as the lava flows so slowly it would be relatively 'easy' to model. But it will look damn cool, I'm sure!! :p
 
WhiteBoy said:
Simulated water is one of those things just like true AI that won't be seen for generations of games. I wouldn't be surprised if they still have created simulated water in 20 years.
Click to expand...

... You know way too little to be speaking.

To continue;

There's a new kind of processor teveloping, it's going to be from 1Thz and upwards. It'll be out in about 7 to 10 years and is right now in heavy planning/development stages my several major processor developers. This means that you'll be able to cream out sooo much more out of your PC then you can today. And by then (7-10 years from now) you'll see graphics probably as realistic as the real world, it would not be very far from, trust me on that one. It might be a little exaggeration to say it's going to seem real, but you'll be able to slip on your VR goggles and some gloves and step in to your second world.

Regards
Dead-Inside
 
Good old Moore's law, computing power doubles every 18 months. Proper fluid dynamics is probably just a matter of time. I say probably, because the performance you can squeeze out of silicon will eventually max out, and we have to use some other computing technology.

Anyways, I can't see the point in physically simulated bullets, sure, it's good over extreme range or slowing down time scenarios where you're going to want realism, but for most purposes simple line tracing is good enough, and you can apply a force to the physics object along the vector of impact to simulate the effect of being hit, and it's cheaper on performance.
 
Auto-rotation is when you cut power to the main rotor of a helicopter and sacrafice altitude for lift. You'll never be able to gain altitude without adding power, but you can safetly return to earth without crashing using auto-rotation. The movement of air over the rotor blades as a result of falling will rotate the rotor and provide a small amount of lift.

The only real use of truley simulated bullets I can think of would be an ultra realistic sniper simulation. That way windage, distance and weapon power would all realistically come into play.
 
kaf11 said:
turning off the engines of a chopper gives you lift?
Click to expand...

it's called autorotation....the knetic energy that is stored in the rotating body will create lift and slow down the forward and falling speed to allow you to land with some control and not get hurt...................if you time it right.......... :dozey: :naughty:
 
i replyed after reading the first page.......sorry for the repeates....
i flew chopers for 18 yrs in the Army............... :sniper:
 
RotorHead said:
i replyed after reading the first page.......sorry for the repeates....
i flew chopers for 18 yrs in the Army............... :sniper:
Click to expand...

hence the name RotorHead?
 
I want water, and Air dynamics.
Air Dynamics mostly.. that way we can have explosions that react to the room size/shape they are in.. for instance throwing a grenade into a vent, it would carry through the vent and spew forth from the other side.

or smoke grenades would spread realistically across a battlefield, or fill up an enclosed room... water is just iceing, Air has more gameplay value ;)
 
Actually, autorotation can be simulated without resorting to fluid dynamics. I remember playing the game Apache Gunship on my Commodore 64 years ago, and it had autorotation modeled into the simulation.
 
that'd be interesting.

as the saying goes... 'maybe in a mod'
Click to expand...

You will see it in a mod, as soon as we convert "The Specialists" mod into source.
 
the closer the games get to being more "real" the system needed to run it will go through the roof.............it will almost be to expensive to own a system like that.
the thought of it is pretty cool :thumbs:
 
i would expect the next generation of computer games or the generation after it too have realistic water physics as we are getting incredibly powerful computers now and realistic water can be rendered just not in real time. so its very close already.
 
RotorHead said:
i replyed after reading the first page.......sorry for the repeates....
i flew chopers for 18 yrs in the Army............... :sniper:
Click to expand...
really? that must have been awesome.. and you must have crazy skill to be able to pilot a real chopper.

what choppers did you pilot? (if you dont mind me asking)
 
NeLi said:
You will see it in a mod, as soon as we convert "The Specialists" mod into source.
Click to expand...

who are "WE"?
I heard the original team (John and morpheo) werent porting to source.
btw I love TS. (best mod ever for HL)

EDIT: crap I meant to edit my last post, but ended up double posting.. sorry guys.
 
They aren't porting The Specialists to the source!? Thats the best HL mod! It's awesome! :thumbs: :D :smoking:
 
Ownzed said:
They aren't porting The Specialists to the source!? Thats the best HL mod! It's awesome! :thumbs: :D :smoking:
Click to expand...

yeah it is, and as far as I know, John and Morpheo said they werent.
 
Wesisapie said:
"some lift". it will still be falling, but there will be resistance because the falling in the air causes the blades to spin, so it creates some force opposite to gravity, ie. lift. that's not to say the helicopter wil go up, it's just saying that it will fall slower than it would if it were just a concrete lump in the shape of a helicopter where the air didnt spin the blades and create a small amount of lift.

thats how i read it, at least.
Click to expand...

nope, because it's only spinning as fast as the air goes up.
 
Try making a paper helicopter. Those things fall slower than a similar shape which doesn't spin, I know that...
 
I would also like #2, looking at Intel's promises we should be @ 20 ghz in about 2 years, so I think that's enough to simulate dynamic water...or is it?
 
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