Bioshock: Infinite [no spoilers]

[Omnomnick]

So that whole "but it hurts developers to wait for it to be cheaper" line is a load of crap.

Nice way to take that line out of context. With that line I was referring to people (not you or ZT in this case) that are more than willing to purchase a game at release date but will instead wait just for the price to go down because they'd rather save money than properly evaluate the value of their purchase. I'm basically talking about the people who will bitch and think $60 is too much for any video game regardless of quality OR length, despite the fact that, thanks to inflation etc, games are actually cheaper than they ever have been in the past.

Granted I probably went off on a tangent with the whole game value rant, but I was generally talking about the growing trend within the gaming industry, rather than particularly directing any hate at you or ZT. So yeah, sorry if you took it that way. I just wouldn't say the big trend that exploded with The Walking Dead applies to Bioshock, thanks to the series already having established itself with many gamers back in 2007.

 

[Krynn72]

Fair enough, I was indeed reading your posts in the context of it being related to what ZT said. Probably because you quoted ZT in the post you said it in.

This is fun, going back and forth between this thread and the other. Every time I hit post I have a new alert haha. The most activity I've on on this site in a while.

 

[Omnomnick]

This is fun, going back and forth between this thread and the other. Every time I hit post I have a new alert haha. The most activity I've on on this site in a while.

Yeah, haha. I was actually wondering when it would end, since it kind of had the potential to go on for days.

But yeah, I wasn't particularly targeting you or ZT in any of my posts, my quote of his post was mainly to do with the "Go and buy it" element of the first few words. I guess my general "overly-positive" attitude towards the game in response to what people have been saying in this thread is because I genuinely don't want people to miss out on Infinite. Its just one of THOSE games. Top 5 material, if you know what I mean.

 

[Sheepo]

Quality doesn't factor in. Because I buy every single game under five bucks, not just the ones I actually want to play?

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

Great environments, nice setpieces, awesome character design and music

gameplay is boring as shit and the ending is awful

just another overhyped game that people will hail as the pinnacle of storytelling and 'art' in videogames, just as retards did with the first game

 

[MFL]

Why didn't you like the ending?

Spoiler

I was satisfied until the after-credits scene, whereupon I was deeply unsatisfied.

 

[Omnomnick]

Why didn't you like the ending?

Willie was stupidly biased towards the ending before the game even came out, so just ignore him.

On a serious note, what games DO you like, Willie? I've yet to hear you praise any game.

 

[morgs]

Was the ending different after release?

 

[Omnomnick]

Was the ending different after release?

Well Willie just said he thought Ken Levine was mentally retarded for thinking it up, even though the game hadn't been leaked at the time. I actually think the ending and how it played out was genius.

 

[Eejit]

Got this yesterday and I'm enjoying the experience so far.

In terms of graphics they did go a little overboard with the bloom though. It seems the alternate post-processing helps with that at the cost of a few fps. I couldn't find any solid info or comparison screenshots showing the difference between normal and alternate, but I just some screenshots and the difference is obvious.

Shouldn't it be rather "bloomy" though? It's a city among the clouds, surely it's appropriate?

 

[Adabiviak]

I'm several hours into it now:

• The graphics (while a brighter palette than the typical post-apocalyptic sepia tones is nice) aren't living up to the hype I've been hearing (they're good, but they still look dated). I'm not complaining though - it's a nice looking game, and the environments are rich.
• Elizabeth has some of the best AI for an 'escort' character I've seen.
• Combat, so far, is meh. I've been replaying Rage lately, and the shift to this game emphasizes how much of this is story driven, and how much is combat driven. Again, I'm not complaining - the bits of combat are fun, and the gameplay is good (sky-lines are quite a hoot). It's a very wide rail that you play through.
• It's bad enough that games are moving to a checkpoint driven save scheme, but when those checkpoints are scarce and only marked by a little (I've missed more than one, I think) icon in the HUD, it harms the enjoyment of the game. When the game says, "your last checkpoint was at 10pm, if you leave now any progress since then will be lost", you know you're dealing with a console port (or exceptionally sadistic or lazy coders).
• The environment is very rich with dialogue-driven NPCs that set the stage for the story.
• Oh god, the bloom... making everything in the game throw bloom is doing it wrong. Making the alternative a more graphic intensive DX11 option that appears to vary in quality between systems isn't a fix in my book. I'll be tweaking the configuration files if I wind up playing it a second time. Oddly enough, this game makes me want to replay Bioshock 2 more than anything else.
• Bioshock Rapture successor indeed - corpses turning into lock boxes, vending machines calling out to you in mechanical carnie voices, recycled ambient sounds from Bioshock (Apollo Square sound familiar?)... again, I'm not complaining, just making an observation.
• Money is scarce enough to finally make it a challenge (I've ran completely out a couple of times). Alternately, I've never been out of lock picks (and after the first level, haven't even been low). Maybe I'm upgrading my weapons too early?

 

[Omnomnick]

I'm several hours into it now:

• Blah
• Blah
• Blah
• "Observations"

I quite enjoyed the fact that you mentioned how the "graphics" (I ****ing hate that word and how much its used) aren't impressive, then you go on to describe how the environment (and art design I'd imagine) are very rich. When you analyse a game, don't look at graphical fidelity, since that would be a relatively close minded way of looking at it (not saying you are closed minded), instead look at whatever engines and assets are used and HOW they are used. Tomb Raider is another recent example of how technology that isn't considered groundbreaking or mind blowing is instead used so brilliantly that art style and visual directions ultimately win out. Graphical fidelity doesn't matter in the slightest - go check out Fez.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Willie was stupidly biased towards the ending before the game even came out, so just ignore him.

On a serious note, what games DO you like, Willie? I've yet to hear you praise any game.

ah-nee-maye~

I quite enjoyed the fact that you mentioned how the "graphics" (I ****ing hate that word and how much its used) aren't impressive, then you go on to describe how the environment (and art design I'd imagine) are very rich. When you analyse a game, don't look at graphical fidelity, since that would be a relatively close minded way of looking at it (not saying you are closed minded), instead look at whatever engines and assets are used and HOW they are used. Tomb Raider is another recent example of how technology that isn't considered groundbreaking or mind blowing is instead used so brilliantly that art style and visual directions ultimately win out. Graphical fidelity doesn't matter in the slightest - go check out Fez.

People are allowed to dislike the game, duder. Granted, they have bad taste. But they can take that up with Satan when they're being assraped in hell.

 

[Omnomnick]

People are allowed to dislike the game, duder. Granted, they have bad taste. But they can take that up with Satan when they're being assraped in hell.

I approve of this.

But yeah I'm not hating on people who dislike the game, people are entitled to their own opinions and I respect that. I'm purely questioning people who say they dislike the game, or aspects of it, without providing proper justification or reasoning. Plus the word "graphics" has absolutely no meaning anymore, so using it is pointless.

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

Willie was stupidly biased towards the ending before the game even came out, so just ignore him.

On a serious note, what games DO you like, Willie? I've yet to hear you praise any game.

I like games that are fun and a good number of those games have come out recently. See: Metal Gear Rising, Max Anarchy, Tomb Raider, Fary Cry 3, so on.

Well Willie just said he thought Ken Levine was mentally retarded for thinking it up, even though the game hadn't been leaked at the time. I actually think the ending and how it played out was genius.

'even though the game hadn't been leaked at the time'


it's like you really are f*cking stupid, there were streams of the game up being played to the finish a week and a half before it released

Why do I dislike the game and ending?

the gameplay, aside from initial use of Vigors, is incredibly boring and clunky. The time travel is interesting, but then when they decide to pull the shit in the end is when things just get ridiculously stupid and yet people like Omnomnick are the ones who will praise the game up and down forever as a symbol of genius and as an art form untouchable by anyone else. Weapons should have just been dropped entirely and had combat be a focus of using Vigors to survive the right situations, instead of the clunky and awful shooting and weapons they decided on. Exploration was fun and having just that would have been much better. If the gameplay had been like the intro up to when you get the skyhook I would have loved that. I spent a good hour wandering and exploring before things actually began happening, trying to find everything I could around pre-shitstorm Columbia. 1999 mode is lame as hell too, literally just Very Hard instead of any real changes to gameplay.

F*Ck. Too tired for this shit. I apologize if I sound angry toward you, Nick, and if it sounds like I'm blindly trying to hate the game. I just genuinely did not like it for the mostpart. I was expecting more, but most of it just feels wrong.

 

[Omnomnick]

'even though the game hadn't been leaked at the time'
it's like you really are f*cking stupid, there were streams of the game up being played to the finish a week and a half before it released

I'll give you that, I forgot what day it was when you posted your message about the ending, and I thought it was a week or two before the game leaked, when it turns out I was wrong.

However - that doesn't give you anymore reason to say the ending is shit since that would like be skipping to the end of Telltale's The Walking Dead season to say the ending didn't make sense and wasn't emotional or touching in the slightest because you had no experience of prior events or understanding of the overall plot. Bioshock Infinite's ending is so heavily reflective of events and experiences that occur during the game, meaning that providing such a strong opinion of the ending prior to game's release is absurd and hilariously wrong. Any ending would appear random and/or low quality if the viewer/player has no context or knowledge of prior events.

Whatever you may think of the ending now you've played it is irrelevant, because you were already so heavily biased towards it going into the game. I still stand by what I've said previously. As long as you pay attention to the fine details throughout the game and remember them, the ending is absolutely fantastic and brilliantly original.

Anyway, yeah - it did come across as pretty aggressive, to a stupidly negative and insulting degree. You're pretty lucky I saw the apology at the bottom to be honest. You might want to start toning it down pretty heavily in future.

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

I'll give you that, I forgot what day it was when you posted your message about the ending, and I thought it was a week or two before the game leaked, when it turns out I was wrong.

However - that doesn't give you anymore reason to say the ending is shit since that would like be skipping to the end of Telltale's The Walking Dead season to say the ending didn't make sense and wasn't emotional or touching in the slightest because you had no experience of prior events or understanding of the overall plot. Bioshock Infinite's ending is so heavily reflective of events and experiences that occur during the game, meaning that providing such a strong opinion of the ending prior to game's release is absurd and hilariously wrong. Any ending would appear random and/or low quality if the viewer/player has no context or knowledge of prior events.

Whatever you may think of the ending now you've played it is irrelevant, because you were already so heavily biased towards it going into the game. I still stand by what I've said previously. As long as you pay attention to the fine details throughout the game and remember them, the ending is absolutely fantastic and brilliantly original.

Anyway, yeah - it did come across as pretty aggressive, to a stupidly negative and insulting degree. You're pretty lucky I saw the apology at the bottom to be honest. You might want to start toning it down pretty heavily in future.

Thing is I had context and knowledge. I watch this person stream the entire game, do all the side stuff, even that stream's chat was dissecting everything going on to almost autismal levels.

You may see it as something incredibly emotional and genius, but remember: we are not the same. We see things differently. You see it as art. I see it as just.. eugh.

I agree that I need to tone down the hostility to everyone, at least.

 

[Sheepo]

I'd say Nick's rabid defense of the game was more aggressive than Willie's opinion on it, especially in the context of Willie being Willie and saying things in a way that... Willie says things.

 

[Omnomnick]

I'd say Nick's rabid defense of the game was more aggressive than Willie's opinion on it, especially in the context of Willie being Willie and saying things in a way that... Willie says things.

Asking for developed opinions regarding the game is a "rabid defense"? And just because its Willie doesn't make it the right way to talk to people, nor does it make it acceptable.

 

[Krynn72]

And just because its Willie doesn't make it the right way to talk to people, nor does it make it acceptable.

I accept Willies way of talking to people. Just like I accept the way you talk to people, what with the [url=http://www.valvetime.net/threads/valve-the-least-fan-friendly-company-of-all-time.243062/#post-3400225]blatant [/url]insults and all. Grow a thicker skin, lest you become a hypocrite.

 

[Omnomnick]

what with the blatant insults and all.

I'll admit the introduction on the "blatant" one probably didn't come across in the manner I meant it too, so it probably came across as a bit extreme given the discussion. Surely you can see that the rest from this particular thread are jokes? Right?

If not, I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU. YOU HAVE BAD TASTE IN VIDEO GAMES.

At least mine (for the most part) are obviously jokes, whereas Willie literally came out and pretty much called me "really ****ing stupid" multiple times in the same post, even though I was actually just asking for his opinion on what a GOOD game was in his eyes since prior to his post I'd never actually read or seen him praise a single game that isn't over 20 years old.

 

[Krynn72]

At least mine (for the most part) are obviously jokes, whereas Willie literally came out and pretty much called me "really ****ing stupid" multiple times in the same post, even though I was actually just asking for his opinion on what a GOOD game was in his eyes since prior to his post I'd never actually read or seen him praise a single game that isn't over 20 years old.

Calling someone "really ****ing stupid" is one of the tamest things Willie has ever called somebody. So its OK for you to exaggeratedly insult somebody as a "joke" when arguing things, but not for Willie? You're really ****ing stupid if that's what you think.

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

I'd stated before I'd seen the entire game from start to finish (though I didn't make that clear here I guess), so I was being reactionary about it AND CALLING YOU STUPID WASN'T A RIGHT CHOICE OF WORDS caps lock not correcting that. And I play just about every single thing new that comes out, so I've got my favorites. I just don't talk about them because talkING about games to Valvetime is like talking to a bunch of jaded old men.

for instance

Army of Two: The Devil's Cartel is a boring piece of shit that eschews the fun co-op and silliness of the older games for a boring, grimdark shooter and it proves once again that Visceral are shit at making shooters that aren't Dead Space.

but

Metal Gear Rising is everything right about the hack and slash genre and embodies fun in a way that very few games in its vein have in the last few years, despite being incredibly short.

there I CAN TALK ABOUT GAMES

 

[Omnomnick]

Calling someone "really ****ing stupid" is one of the tamest things Willie has ever called somebody.

Still doesn't make it fine for him to go round acting super aggressive just because "its what Willie does".

 

[Vegeta897]

And I play just about every single thing new that comes out

Except arma you piece of shit

Still doesn't make it fine for him to go round acting super aggressive just because "its what Willie does".

It kind of does make it okay because everybody knows not to take him seriously. He's not causing trouble by doing it, unless you don't know him well, in which case it's just a part of 'growing up' on this forum, getting to know the players. And I think this is one aspect of what makes us unique. **** being politically correct on a forum we've been on for almost a decade. We don't need to act tame when it's mostly just us guys who know how to talk with each other.

 

[Edeslash]

I finished the game two days ago with 17 hours clocked in. Bioshock is (or at least used to be) my favorite game of all time. This might be better.

• In some ways the story was a disappointment. I was expecting... more. We got to hear very little about Handymen and Songbird for example. Nothing about the Boys of Silence. One thing I loved about Bioshock was discovering the stories behind Big Daddies and Little Sisters and all the other human experiment stuff. I really hope we get to see behind the scenes in the DLC.
• However, the story of Booker and Elizabeth was just what I was expecting. I loved everything about them.
• I think the best thing about the game was the skylines. So ****ing fantastic. The problem is that there was not enough of them. Remember the E3 2011 demo where Booker took down a Vox zeppelin after riding skylines to reach it for minutes? There was a huge complex system of skylines in that version of Emporia. There was nothing like that. The only place where I remember using skylines to actually travel around the world was the boardwalk. I was so expecting something like that.
• Combat is incredibly fun. I'm not a fan of FPS games, I need to say that. Usually I get bored. Here, it's so damn entertaining especially when there's skylines around. Those fights with tons of enemies, a couple of patriots and a Handyman to finish it all were incredible. Vigors were certainly more interesting than Bioshock's plasmids. For some reason I never used Charge or Undertow. Never felt the need to. I'm also glad I almost never felt like I had to aim down sights. Firing from your hip had that same HL2-esque feeling of precision. Thanks to Irrational for that.
• WHY DOES EVERY SINGLE FEMALE CITIZEN HAVE THE SAME FACE? This is just... inexcusable.
• Exploring Columbia was just as satisfying as exploring Rapture although I was hoping for more open areas like Emporia and MAPS. Maps would have been so good, just like they were in Bioshock. A bit linear, but this was just a tiny problem for me. I'm not the kinda guy who dislikes linearity in video games.
• The game looks absolutely gorgeous. So many breathtaking moments.

Spoilers from the first few hours, if you've met Elizabeth, you can view this.

Spoiler

• This was also the first game to give me a real sensation of vertigo. I have a massive fear of heights and the part where you climb the Monument Island statue just messed me up. Skyscraper-like things are my weak point and there I was, thinking how huge the statue had looked from down below, and how the statue was leaned forward and there was basically nothing below me. When I walked up and saw the head I was ready to blow up.

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

Except arma you piece of shit

sorry i'm not a casual like you LMOA

 

[Sheepo]

Asking for developed opinions regarding the game is a "rabid defense"?

No, your rabid defense is rabid defense:

Get out of this thread, now.

Rorschach120, ladies and gentlemen.

The second one IS the version in the final game. She still doesn't look as young as he was making out. I can maybe understand if he was just talking about her exaggerated slightly over-sized eyes, a feature most characters have in Infinite, but besides that - she looks her age. Rorschach120 just likes his kids old.(Quoter's note: There's no real blatant dickishness but you were consistently being super condescending and implying Rorschach was a pedophile.)

You have bad taste in video games.

No. You can't. Irrational deserve every penny this game is currently worth. I'm starting to become annoyed with the growing gamer mentality of "it'll be cheaper soon, so let's just get it then - even if I'd like to play it at release." It'll only hurt game developers and game quality in the long run.

Willie was stupidly biased towards the ending before the game even came out, so just ignore him.

I quite enjoyed the fact that you mentioned how the "graphics" (I ****ing hate that word and how much its used) aren't impressive, then you go on to describe how the environment (and art design I'd imagine) are very rich. When you analyse a game, don't look at graphical fidelity, since that would be a relatively close minded way of looking at it (not saying you are closed minded), instead look at whatever engines and assets are used and HOW they are used. Tomb Raider is another recent example of how technology that isn't considered groundbreaking or mind blowing is instead used so brilliantly that art style and visual directions ultimately win out. Graphical fidelity doesn't matter in the slightest - go check out Fez.

These are just samples (about 1/3 of the posts you made per response) of instances of you flipping out at pretty much everyone who expresses an opinion beyond "Bioshock is great." About half of such posts are poorly thought out, have no substance, or are just redundant/make no sense (this is mostly just Adabiviak). I've bolded the ones where your posts make you sound like a dick. Yeah, maybe you're joking, but hey, I don't know you like I know Willie, maybe you mean it.

 

[Remus]

So I just finished the game as well. Overall really enjoyed the game. I especially liked Elisabeth and the banter between her and Dewitt.

However, yeah... I didn't like the ending.

Spoiler

Painting out Dewitt/Comstock to be the root of all evil that must die, doesn't really make sense.
Even if an alternate version of Dewitt went through with the baptism and became a religious fruitcake he still wouldn't have been able to do shit without the inter-dimensional travel tech provided by the Leucett brothers.

The Leucett brothers also invented levitation tech which made Columbia itself possible. The inter-dimensional gateways also enabled assholes like Fink and others to steal technology from parallel universes, making all the techno horrors from Columbia possible. Things like the steam punk cyborg "handy-men", Songbird, the Vigors, etc.

So if anyone needs to die it's them.

Also, did I miss anything? Or are Elisabeth's/Anna's powers never explained?

 

[Omnomnick]

These are just samples (about 1/3 of the posts you made per response) of instances of you flipping out at pretty much everyone who expresses an opinion beyond "Bioshock is great."

I haven't 'flipped out' at Willie after he actually took time to explain and justify his argument about the game. I haven't 'flipped out' at Edeslash for his criticism as I feel he justifies himself and his arguments sufficiently, same goes for Mirage and Unfocused, all four of which provided both negative and positive feedback regarding the game in some shape or form. You could also include Adabiviak since I didn't have a problem with his feedback, purely the use of the word "graphics" which, as I explained, I feel has absolutely no meaning what so ever in modern gaming culture due to how overused it is. Actually using the term is kind of confusing in my eyes as it has different definitions for different people, which is why I wanted him to elaborate on it further. So no, it isn't a "rabid defense", the game has its negatives, and people expressing their own opinions are fine as long as they're expressed in a way which doesn't appear biased or unfair.

As for a few of the quotes you picked out, such as the "You have bad taste in games" or "Get out of this thread, now" - scroll up a bit and read my response to Krynn regarding jokes.

In regards to the posts about Rorschach, you probably noticed I was one of about 2-3 people poking fun at his statement that she was a child. If we just look at the quote you mentioned for a second. "Rorschach120 just likes his kids old." - it actually implies that he likes women, since I had already mentioned in a previous post that she is at least 19-21. Saying he likes "kids" "old" is actually a contradiction in itself. And no, I wasn't being condescending, I'm not actually sure how you got that from the post, as pretty much all of it was just me expressing my own ideas about how he could possibly have come to that conclusion.

My post about Willie has also been explained, that I actually thought he had very little context or knowledge regarding the game upon seeing/hearing the ending for the first time. I still stand by the fact that, once he actually played the game, he was quite possibly negatively biased towards it purely because he had seen and disliked the ending beforehand - which is just what happens.

I guess I'm partly to blame for not making the intent of a lot of my joke posts obvious enough, maybe I should stick "haha LOL" on the end of each one just to be sure people understand where I'm coming from.

 

[Sheepo]

So no, it isn't a "rabid defense", the game has its negatives, and people expressing their own opinions are fine as long as they're expressed in a way which doesn't appear biased or unfair.

Rabid: Extremely zealous or enthusiastic.

I still think it applies pretty well. Also, I think I use 'flipped out' a little too... flippantly. It really just means reacting extremely and in this case the extreme-ness is all in the volume.

As far as you being a dick, I don't actually think you're much of one and yeah I'd read every post up until I posted that last one so I'm clear on the fact that you're dealing in jokes and I honestly never really had any doubt about that. Again, just pointing out the absurdity of you finding some major fault with how Willie expresses himself when your posts could just as easily be taken as hostile or rude. I'm sure it would've passed under your radar if he said anyone who thought Bioshock's ending was bad was a ****ing idiot.

 

[Vegeta897]

I missed you Sheepo.

 

[Omnomnick]

Rabid: Extremely zealous or enthusiastic.

I'd agree with the word "enthusiastic", rabid just makes it sound as if I'm totally insane about to an unhealthy degree, or at least that's how I perceived the use of the word.

As far as you being a dick, I don't actually think you're much of one and yeah I'd read every post up until I posted that last one so I'm clear on the fact that you're dealing in jokes and I honestly never really had any doubt about that. Again, just pointing out the absurdity of you finding some major fault with how Willie expresses himself when your posts could just as easily be taken as hostile or rude. I'm sure it would've passed under your radar if he said anyone who thought Bioshock's ending was bad was a ****ing idiot.

In regards to what I said about Willie - I understand what you're getting at. However, I feel that, while my jokes MAY be taken as offensive by some (that is the nature of many jokes after all), they can at least be interpreted as funny by others (or at least I hope). I feel there is no reality where Willie acting like he does is perceived as funny besides site veterans laughing at how him regardless of how funny a post is or isn't humorous. Now consider that we've been trying to attract new people to the site for a while, so having members who constantly act like massive dicks to people only comes across as having a fan base full of massive dicks to newer members. It isn't a good look. I just think he really needs to tone down the pointless aggression, which he mentioned himself anyway.

 

[Vegeta897]

Now consider that we've been trying to attract new people to the site for a while, so having members who constantly act like massive dicks to people only comes across as having a fan base full of massive dicks to newer members. It isn't a good look. I just think he really needs to tone down the pointless aggression, which he mentioned himself anyway.

Now you're just exaggerating to an extreme degree. He doesn't constantly act like a massive dick. He doesn't even post that much compared to most of us. I would be surprised if he was the result of even one new person leaving this forum. He doesn't have that much influence; he's one person. If Willie acted really out of line directly to a new member, then maybe you'd have a point.

Araviss is probably the only person in recent history that has given the forum a bad look.

 

[MFL]

Worth it, that shit was hilarious.

 

[Omnomnick]

If Willie acted really out of line directly to a new member, then maybe you'd have a point.

I just think acting that way at all is really unnecessary, and he even admitted he should tone it down.

Worth it, that shit was hilarious.

I'm still waiting for someone to make a comic strip of the Blizzard F2P card game thread. I need to see that become a reality.

Anyway, hopefully this thread can get back on topic now. Then again, a green turtle was involved the last time I said that, so I doubt it'll go anywhere.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Personally, whether you were joking or not in most of your posts, I found your feverish persistence about some things kind of obnoxious. We get that you're excited about the game. We really, super get it. Maybe tone it back to the point where you can accept that other people have differing ideas of what constitutes value or quality instead of posting the same argument over and over. You might not have intended it to come across this way, but it just came off as stubbornness to me.

 

[cjohnson]

So I just finished the game as well. Overall really enjoyed the game. I especially liked Elisabeth and the banter between her and Dewitt.

However, yeah... I didn't like the ending.

Spoiler

Painting out Dewitt/Comstock to be the root of all evil that must die, doesn't really make sense.
Even if an alternate version of Dewitt went through with the baptism and became a religious fruitcake he still wouldn't have been able to do shit without the inter-dimensional travel tech provided by the Leucett brothers.

The Leucett brothers also invented levitation tech which made Columbia itself possible. The inter-dimensional gateways also enabled assholes like Fink and others to steal technology from parallel universes, making all the techno horrors from Columbia possible. Things like the steam punk cyborg "handy-men", Songbird, the Vigors, etc.

So if anyone needs to die it's them.

Also, did I miss anything? Or are Elisabeth's/Anna's powers never explained?

Spoiler

"It seems the universe does not like its peas with its porridge." - Rosalind Lucette, on the Voxaphone found outside Liz's chamber. The explanation is that because the 'tear' separated her, the universe is trying to put her back together.

 

[Sheepo]

I missed you Sheepo.

You're so sweet. Missed ya too babycakes. Except I never left. Just haven't posted more than twice in a day in a while.

 

[Adabiviak]

I quite enjoyed the fact that you mentioned how the "graphics" (I ****ing hate that word and how much its used) aren't impressive, then you go on to describe how the environment (and art design I'd imagine) are very rich. When you analyse a game, don't look at graphical fidelity, since that would be a relatively close minded way of looking at it (not saying you are closed minded), instead look at whatever engines and assets are used and HOW they are used.

I just said they aren't living up to the hype that I've read online, not that I didn't like it nor that they weren't impressive. By rich (and I think that's what you mean by how they're using the engine to tell the story?), I meant that there are a lot of things in the game (scripted bits, media, NPC dialogues, etc.) that tell a lot of the back story, set the tone for various levels, and fill in the setting (although the kinetoscopes could be a little longer) in a clever, fluid way.